Video transcript
ENTREVISTA COM GABRIEL AZEVEDO (MDB) AO GOVERNO DE MG | CNN ELEIÇÕES
435 statements · 1 politicians · August 25, 2026 · 48 min
Statements by Gabriel Azevedo. 435 transcribed statements, with topic and stance on the ones the analysis classified. Topics: Fiscal and Social Policy, Intergovernmental Relations, Public Service, Education.
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Transcript
435 statementsFull transcript of the video. Statements the analysis classified carry topic and stance.
Desconhecido
Good evening, this is CNN Brasil and today, August 24, we continue with interviews with the candidates for the government of Minas Gerais.
Desconhecido
With me, Caio Junqueira; here in São Paulo, Edilene Lopes, in Brasília.
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We will receive the main candidates for the government of Minas Gerais.
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All were invited, the highest-ranked candidates in the CNN index, CNN's polling aggregator, developed in partnership with IPESP Analítica.
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Minas Gerais, the country's second-largest electorate, has more than 16 million voters.
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It is the focus of our series, which began on Thursday, given the large number of competitive candidates in this race.
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We began the series with the current governor, candidate for re-election, Matheus Simões, of PSD.
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Today it's Gabriel Azevedo's turn, of MDB, who is already at the Itatiaia studios in Belo Horizonte and also already on screen here.
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I extend my greetings to the candidate and to Edilene, as well as to Caio.
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And as with all the interviews we've done in this series, it's 45 minutes of conversation with each candidate.
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As I said, Matheus Simões has already participated, today Gabriel Azevedo, we will also host Flávio Roscoe of PL, Alexandre Calil of PDT, Patrúzio Ananias of PT, and the presence of Cleitinho Azevedo of Republicanos is confirmed for Friday.
Desconhecido
45 minutes of interview, with the clock starting to count now, candidate.
Desconhecido
I want to start with the first question, even paraphrasing you, sir.
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In one of your social media posts, you said that what is good has to be maintained and what is not good has to change.
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Words more or less to that effect.
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And it's a question I've been asking to open conversations with all the candidates.
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What do you consider to be a successful public policy in the current government and that will certainly be maintained if you are elected?
Desconhecido
And what will be radically changed as your first measure if you are elected?
Good evening, Caio.
Good evening, Yuri.
Good evening, Adelene.
Good evening to you who are following us on CNN.
That's right.
I believe we can't simply want to throw everything away, but we also can't keep what needs to be changed.
Let me start with what I'm going to change.
About: align growth of public spending with revenue variation
We need to take care of the finances in order to take care of the people.
- Neutral
About: reduce the public deficit
When Fernando Pimentel's government ended, we had a large public deficit and little responsibility with debt repayment.
Eight years have gone by.
- Neutral
About: reduce the public deficit
We are owing almost twice as much and the government is forecasting 7 billion in deficit for next year.
About: align growth of public spending with revenue variation
This is not acceptable.
About: renegotiate states' debt with the Union via Propag (complementary law)
We have to adhere to Propag, which was a very well-done negotiation with the presidency of the Assembly, which is also from the Movimento Democrático Brasileiro, and we must take great care to make expenditures rise as revenue rises, and not the other way around.
About: align growth of public spending with revenue variation
We cannot maintain what the current government is planning for next year, which is to spend more than it collects.
- Neutral
About: renegotiate states' debt with the Union via Propag (complementary law)
So everyone is on the same page, at the end of last year, Minas Gerais recognized 179.3 billion reais.
billion in public debt with the Union.
- Neutral
About: renegotiate states' debt with the Union via Propag (complementary law)
Propag gave us eight conditions to renegotiate that debt.
About: renegotiate states' debt with the Union via Propag (complementary law)
I accept the one that provides for zero interest on the installments.
About: renegotiate states' debt with the Union via Propag (complementary law)
But for that there has to be an amortization of 20% already, that is, 35 billion reais, and we have to balance the spending.
About: align growth of public spending with revenue variation
So the first point is to do things differently from this government that is spending more than it raises, as the previous government did.
About: dialogue with the federal government
And more than that, we have to do something the government is not doing: engage in dialogue with the federal government.
About: dialogue with the federal government
The governor of Minas Gerais cannot simply keep fighting with the President of the Republic.
And you have to like politics.
About: transform Palácio das Mangabeiras into a public space
Now, there is one thing this government did that I will keep, which is not using the Palácio das Mangabeiras as an official residence.
I live in an apartment downtown.
And I intend to keep living there.
About: transform Palácio das Mangabeiras into a public space
The Palácio will serve as a space of memory and public use for the people of Minas.
Above all to remind us that the Palácio das Mangabeiras, the Palácio da Liberdade, were two stages in Brazilian redemocratization.
Unlike Governor Romeu Zema, I know that the dictatorship existed, I am part of the Brazilian democratic movement, and just like Tancredo Neves, who inspires me greatly, I know very well that Minas's first commitment is... to freedom.
Desconhecido
Caio Junqueira.
Candidate, while doing the research there, precisely to prepare for this interview, I spoke with many politicians from Minas and they told me a bit about your trajectory, specifically about your relationship with three of them, Aécio Neves, Alexandre Calil and Marcelo Ara.
And what was reported to me is that you allied with each of them at first and then disengaged from each of them.
I'd like you to tell that story, because it was pointed out there almost as acts of betrayal against the three.
I never betrayed my principles, my friend.
And I'll tell you those three stories calmly.
I joined PSDB in 2005 and stayed in the party for eight years.
In 2013... and I realized that the direction of the party no longer matched what I stood for.
And I calmly decided to leave the Brazilian Social Democracy Party.
It was not a dispute with then-senator Aécio Neves, who had been governor.
In fact, I was part of Antônio Anastasia's government, where I remained from 2011 to 2014, even after leaving the party.
Therefore, there was no fight.
There was a divergence of paths and a withdrawal from the party.
I continue to dialogue with all of them with great calm and respect, even if our paths differ.
Aécio Neves, in this election, supports Alexandre Calil and I respect their decision.
Alexandre Calil is someone who presided over Clube Atlético Mineiro, where I was an advisor to the presidency.
In 2016, when I ran for election for the first time and I... aimed for a city council seat, he ran for mayor.
I took part in coordinating his campaign and we were both elected.
Then came the election for president of the City Council.
There was practically a tie of 20 to 20 councilors and I could be the decisive vote.
And then the elected mayor wanted me to support a politician who was wearing an ankle monitor.
I said no.
And I decided, therefore, from that moment, to break with the then-elected mayor, because I would not give my vote—the first act of an elected councilor—to someone whom the police had put behind bars.
And in a third instance, Marcelo Aro, everyone knows the story well, there was an agreement for the election of the Chamber presidency, in which I would serve one year as president and then pass the post to the then vice president for a year.
After eight months of my presidential term, a removal process was orchestrated against me because I had given an interview on the Itatiaia microphone, by the way, criticizing a councilwoman.
And that was the reason they tried to remove me, breaking the agreement... Therefore, the agreement that would have left me one year as president ended up being only eight months.
You can analyze the facts and the data with these three figures and everything I'm saying here corresponds to reality.
Therefore, it wasn't exactly me who broke what had been agreed.
Other events were responsible.
And what I know is that I never stopped defending my principles because of a party.
But I have indeed stopped defending some parties in order to uphold my principles.
Desconhecido
I pass the word here to Edilene Lopes, live from Brasília.
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Edilene.
Desconhecido
Good evening, Gabriel, Yuri, Caio and our audience.
Desconhecido
Gabriel, I would now ask another question, but taking advantage of the lead given by Caio in the question he asked, last week, after an interview in Belo Horizonte, the re-election candidate, Matheus Simões, accused you of recording conversations with other politicians.
Desconhecido
What is your response to that accusation he made?
Desconhecido
Since we're on the topic of intrigues.
Of course, please, Edilene, you know the story well.
Women who are victims of assaults or violence, please record whoever is doing that to you.
When someone sees an animal suffering some kind of abuse, record the scoundrel who is doing it as well.
In my case, it happened twice.
I was a councilor in my first term and the then-mayor Alexandre Cario was plotting my removal.
And in that sense... He offered to a councilor who sought to ally with him a position at Clube Atlético Mineiro for that councilor's son.
So I made a recording to show that a big plot was being organized against my mandate.
At the second moment, a councilor admitted there was also an arrangement to strip me of my mandate.
And that was the second recording.
I don't believe recording is something one should do in the political environment, especially with people you trust.
And that's why today I have a party affiliation, I'm a member of a party, I'm a candidate and I have the trust of many politicians.
They were extreme measures and not things I'm in the habit of doing.
But it was my political life, Edilene.
Once stripped of my mandate, I would lose eight years of office, eight years of political rights.
And that would certainly end my career.
What I can tell you is that, as a councilor who confronted bus companies, as a councilor who faced the most diverse interests, as a councilor who was in a City Council, accustomed to seeing presidents being taken away by the police, embezzlement, cases of corruption, I have been in public life for 20 years.
Being in public life for 20 years without any stain of corrupt proceedings, without any shady deal, without any crime, did not exactly make my life easy.
I am not an heir; I never received a mandate as a gift from anyone and everything was won through hard work and by asking citizens for their votes, which entrusted me with this power of representation.
You know very well, Adilene, that you have been following me here since early on.
There may be controversy, there may be quarrels.
But there are no shady deals.
No corruption.
That's what I always say.
And I'll tell you more, Edilene, you know that youth is something that politics corrects over time.
After all that, I decided, obviously, to calm down a bit more in my relationships.
It's possible to get what we want.
About: improve the quality of education
Quality education, healthcare that works, mobility that transports us with quality, without necessarily spending so much time on pointless fights.
I am 40 years old, 20 of which have been dedicated to public life, and I have been maturing.
Maturity comes because I know that those who don't change, change nothing.
I want to change the history of Minas Gerais.
Desconhecido
Exactly.
Desconhecido
Let me take advantage of that point you raised; you were retracing your trajectory and you said you learned to dialogue with more sectors.
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There was a lot of dialogue, many attempts at coordination so there could be a composition between your ambitions as a candidate for governor and a possible coalition with the PT, which ended up deciding to run its own candidate.
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The former mayor, as is well known Marília Campos, was one of the main organizers and publicly advocated support.
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your candidacy for governor.
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I wanted to understand a bit, in your assessment, why this coordination didn't work out — was it intransigence on the PT's part, were you willing to do this coordination?
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And what about the voter who saw you, as you said, having been active in the PSDB, on the opposite side of the PT, then moving through other parties, and now being in the MDB.
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which is a party that also has a history of alliances, but of breakups with the PT, especially after the 2016 impeachment.
Desconhecido
How does the voter from Minas perceive these movements?
Desconhecido
Doesn't it seem like there was a... You said you have convictions and principles, but doesn't it also seem there was some sort of tacit alliance for this moment?
On the contrary, my friend, I have always said that Minas Gerais cannot be reduced to being a platform for the presidential contest.
Now, I cannot complain about how many other candidates saw in me some attributes that made them invite me to form alliances.
I can tell you, from right to left, how plentiful those conversations were.
Senator Cleitinho Azevedo — he tells this to everyone — invited me to be his running mate.
The current governor, Matheus Simões, invited me to be his running mate.
Senator Marília Campos, it's no secret to anyone, published a letter saying that a standalone PT candidacy would make no sense.
Moreover, she said that if the Workers' Party (PT) itself wanted to overcome the tragedy that was Fernando Pimentel's government, it should seek a broader front.
So, I talked to absolutely everyone, because that has always been a characteristic of mine.
I do not give up my convictions.
And I say very clearly: sitting down at the table to talk with people, with the most diverse people, is the most robust proof that you do not give up your convictions.
Only someone very cowardly or unsure of what they believe would not sit at the table with others.
And to be governor of Minas Gerais, a State mired in a multibillion debt, being a democrat, we do not move forward without talking to institutions.
That requires dialogue with the Assembly, which has 77 state deputies from the most diverse parties.
It requires dialogue with the federal delegation, 53 federal deputies and 3 senators.
The Presidency of the Republic, the Court of Justice, the Public Prosecutor's Office — talking has never been a problem for me.
I engage in dialogue.
Now, I believe that on my part there has always been a conviction.
More important than alliances would be the drafting of a government plan.
And that's why I invited the economist Marcos Lisboa to be our coordinator.
In other words, throughout the process, while many people were very concerned with alliances, with TV time, my concern with Minas Gerais was very clear and anyone can go now to gabriel15.com and access our government plan, which by the way was evaluated by Itatiaia itself as the best government plan among the candidates.
I am 13 points ahead of the second place.
To me that is having the convictions the voter deserves, because in this soup of party initials, my friend, what matters to the voter — and the polls show this — is an independent governor.
And to be independent you cannot be afraid to talk to anyone, to test possibilities for alliances.
Voters from Minas are already tired of this story of people who don't talk to others.
I talk to everyone, yes, without losing conviction.
Caio, who is your candidate for president?
About: maintain MDB's party neutrality in the presidential election
The MDB decided on neutrality and I will follow the MDB's neutrality.
But is that the same as nullifying the vote?
No.
It is recognizing that the voter from Minas wants a governor who will dialogue with any president, which is what I will do.
And from the moment I declare my vote, I will have a huge number of people in Minas Gerais who will stop paying attention to what I say.
About: improve infrastructure
And when I state that I want to build railways — there are already 20 billion in the federal government for those who want to build railways in Minas Gerais — I want the voter from Minas to pay attention to that point.
About: sign a pact to confront femicide
When I say I want to solve femicide, and I need to make an agreement with the federal government and sign the pact against femicide, I want the voter from Minas to pay attention to that.
And not put me in a little box as a supporter of this or that candidate.
In fact, I'll tell you more: I'm walking down the street in Montes Claros, someone comes up to me and says, 'I'll vote for Lula and I'll vote for you.'
I receive those votes with the greatest pleasure.
with gratitude.
I was touring the Triângulo.
this weekend campaigning, in Uberlândia I was told they would vote for me and for Flávio Bolsonaro.
I thank them for the vote.
And if they want to vote for Caiado, for Zema, for Cury and also want to vote for me, they are very welcome, because when you become governor you vote and govern for everyone.
For those who voted for Flávio, for Lula.
And therefore, my friend, here is a candidate for governor.
And it is about the problems of Minas that I will speak.
Desconhecido
Edilene?
Desconhecido
Once again, taking advantage of the thread and in line with Caio's question: the only person from Minas among the presidential contenders who scores in the polls is former governor Romeu Zema, who incidentally decided yesterday not to participate in the debate on Bande.
Desconhecido
You are from the MDB, a party that does not have a candidate for the Presidency of the Republic.
Desconhecido
So there are two questions, a composite question.
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First, how do you assess Governor Romeu Zema's stance yesterday regarding the debate?
Desconhecido
Second, for you, is it good or bad in a polarized scenario for your party not to have a candidate for the Presidency of the Republic?
Edilene, most people from Minas, according to the polls I have seen, want a governor who is independent.
That means not endorsing a particular candidate for president because people in Minas are tired of these incompatibilities.
Two kinds of incompatibilities.
We had cases of friendships between governor and president — Fernando Pimentel and Dilma, Zema and Jair Bolsonaro.
And nothing good happened, almost.
Likewise, we had governors who feuded with the president, and then things get terrible.
So I believe that being independent attracts more attention from the most diverse ideological prisms and positions among the people of Minas.
About: improve the public health network (hospitals and UBS)
Because when I say we must have a queue that is visible and that a family does not receive a message after the patient is dead to perform the surgery, I'm not making here a judgement about a surgery being left or right, pro-Lula or pro-Bolsonaro.
I want the patient to be operated on.
That's what I want to talk about.
Regarding the Brazilian democratic movement, I helped build the programmatic plan that the Fundação Ulisses Guimarães prepared.
I am the president of the Fundação Ulisses Guimarães here in Minas Gerais.
About: launch the Mission party's pure-blood candidacy
And, of course, I very much hoped our party would have a candidate to represent that plan.
About: launch the Mission party's pure-blood candidacy
That was not possible in 2026, but I talk a lot with President Baleia Rossi and with other members of the party so that in 2030 this does not happen again.
About: launch the Mission party's pure-blood candidacy
It is essential that in four years our party's project manages at the ballot box to have the representation of a name.
About: launch the Mission party's pure-blood candidacy
And that is also why I will work over the next four years.
Desconhecido
About Zema yesterday in the debate.
Ah, sorry, Edilene.
About: participate in debates, interviews and candidate forums during the campaign
About Zema, look... What I can say is the following: as a candidate I will be present at every interview, every grilling, every debate.
Because in a debate, Edilene, there is no teleprompter, there are no differences in campaign resources — it's us, our truth, our proposals and the voter.
Someone who doesn't go to the debate either doesn't know what to say, or says what they don't know.
People, as candidates, must have a characteristic that for me is fundamental in politics.
Courage.
Someone who doesn't go to a debate is not courageous.
Desconhecido
Candidate, speaking of some issues you have raised, including on your networks and within your government program, you highlight and have written about the proposal of zero fare for public transport.
Desconhecido
And you began our interview here by speaking about the importance of keeping the accounts in order, public accounts in order.
Desconhecido
You mentioned the current state of Minas Gerais' budget.
Desconhecido
How do you reconcile the two proposals?
Desconhecido
On this point, you are not talking about generalized zero fare, you were speaking specifically of a policy for the capital, Belo Horizonte.
Desconhecido
But is it possible to think of something broader and how to ensure that this broader measure, greater access to public transport, does not also become a fiscal problem, given that this has already happened in major cities across Brazil.
Perfect.
Man, thank you, because this is more than a question, it's a passion.
About: integrate fare system and implement free-pass policies
Urban mobility was the theme of my dissertation at the London School of Economics, and as a city councilor I in fact implemented Zero Fare in Belo Horizonte.
For whom?
About: integrate fare system and implement free-pass policies
Zero Fare for housing estates and favelas, Zero Fare for high school students, Zero Fare for women victims of violence, for those undergoing cancer treatment and for those seeking employment.
About: subsidize public transport conditioned on quality commitments to users
This zero fare came with the implementation of subsidies for the city's public transport system, in which I fought hard as a councilor for it not to be simply a benefit for the sector, but to be linked to compensatory measures of quality for the user.
About: subsidize public transport conditioned on quality commitments to users
Air conditioning on buses, vehicles of quality, longer service hours, because anyone who studies mobility on the planet realizes the State needs to subsidize.
And then I return to you with the following reasoning.
Okay, but how do the accounts balance?
- Neutral
About: subsidize public transport conditioned on quality commitments to users
My friend, when this current government began, in 2019, there were about 6 billion reais in subsidies and tax incentives.
- Neutral
About: subsidize public transport conditioned on quality commitments to users
Currently, we are talking about 26 billion reais in subsidies and incentives projected for next year.
- Neutral
About: publish government spending and acts in full
The most recent transparency on the matter only came about because of a court ruling.
- Neutral
About: publish government spending and acts in full
And then you see that one of the companies benefited is the family company of former governor Romeu Zema.
How do you explain to the citizen who owns a bakery, who owns a pharmacy, and so many people who pay taxes that there are about 4,000 people who aren't paying?
So what does that specifically mean for the voter in Minas Gerais, for the citizen of Minas Gerais?
About: publish government spending and acts in full
Therefore, one of the proposals we've developed, including with Marcos Lisboa, who has a very clear view of the effect of subsidies on Brazil, is to make everything very clear within 100 days.
And then the response comes.
About: subsidize public transport to guarantee access for students and vulnerable groups
How are you subsidizing and incentivizing some sectors while there are students who stop going to school because they don't have money to pay the fare?
I am opposed to the zero-fare model in general.
I've always said that.
About: subsidize public transport to guarantee access for students and vulnerable groups
But subsidizing the system to ensure that no one misses school because they can't pay is something that does advance society.
And when we talk about metropolitan transport, allow me to add the line of reasoning that is fundamental.
There is the Belo Horizonte metropolitan region, there is the Vale do Aço metropolitan region.
There are two regional arrangements I would like to make as governor, in the Triângulo and in Juiz de Fora, different from a metropolitan region — because, according to the 2015 Statute of the Metropolis, you can only have a metropolitan region with conurbation.
About: integrate fare system and implement free-pass policies
But there's one thing we have to implement right away: fare integration.
Imagine, you there in São Paulo who already know what the 'bilhete único' is — which has worked for 20 years in that metropolitan region — that in Minas Gerais we don't have an integrated fare card.
- Neutral
About: integrate fare system and implement free-pass policies
The metropolitan fare here, which is operated by the state government, ranges from about R$ 9 to R$ 32.
And a citizen who travels from Santa Luzia to work in the center of our capital can use up to three cards.
This kind of arrangement creates unnecessary cost, little efficiency, and, worst of all, little integration.
About: integrate fare system and implement free-pass policies
As governor, our... proposal is much more than zero-fare for some groups that need it.
About: integrate fare system and implement free-pass policies
Yes, and it doesn't strain the overall budget; on the contrary, it's an investment that guarantees more education, more access, more integration for those who need it most, involves smart cost management and greater use of modern urban planning policies to secure funding for the system.
And allow me to elaborate on that a bit.
About: promote densification and urban planning around transport stations
You see that Belo Horizonte's metro... it has wasteful land use.
When you expand a station, for example Barreiro, but allow the area around the station to remain low-density — that is, low-rise residences — you are wasting land that could, together with the municipality, through approved changes to land use, enable greater density, more people living nearby, and that resource would be reinvested in the transport system itself.
That's what happens in Hong Kong; that's what happens anywhere in the world.
Mobility isn't just about investing in transport; it's also about orderly urban planning.
about urban planning.
About: promote densification and urban planning around transport stations
The area I have a real passion for — I'm a professor of urban planning at the Faculty of Architecture — and I feel this is one of the ways to improve the lives of those who need to study, for example, without charging them, and in doing so without compromising fiscal responsibility.
Caio?
Candidate, Minas Gerais is a state with very dynamic and prosperous areas, regions and cities, and other regions and cities that are highly dependent on the state as a whole.
highly dependent on the State as a whole.
How do you balance these two Minas Gerais, so to speak?
Look, that's the richness of our Minas and our Gerais.
In fact, our ticket — I and my running mate, vice-governor candidate Maria Helena de Montes Claros, a four-term councilwoman — intend exactly to send that message.
We don't want to govern through centralization.
We don't want to govern... for Belo Horizonte and from Belo Horizonte.
So there are three ideas I'll point out to you.
About: decentralize state administration by creating regional offices with staff
The first is regional governments.
No creating more positions, okay?
But today the commissioned posts, above all, are concentrated in the administrative city, in the Palace, here in Belo Horizonte.
The idea is to post four civil servants in the ten regions to make the governor's oversight more present.
So that mayors and councilors don't have to constantly come to the capital, but so that they can, in those localities, present their main demands and, with the aid of total transparency of minutes and meetings, demonstrate what those priorities are.
About: create an independent agency to monitor and evaluate public policies with multi-year mandates
The second point is the creation of an independent agency, largely based on an idea that already exists in Australia.
with people who have fixed terms.
We are thinking of five years, that is, to be different from the government's term.
What is the role of this agency?
that would include economists, specialists in microdata, specialists in macrometrics?
In other words, all these specialists will have the role of seeing where every cent goes and what result that cent of the government's public policies produces for the citizen.
The program I'm running in Jequition and in Mucuri is, in fact, producing the results that are expected and sought — or is the government stuck in that sameness of announcing an investment package and assuring the citizen that the million will actually create a quality job or bring the power to the producer?
It doesn't work.
About: create an independent agency to monitor and evaluate public policies with multi-year mandates
We have to have an independent agency that, moreover, supplies you in the press with all the data that are needed at all times for permanent evaluation of the government.
And the third point: I was this weekend campaigning in the Triângulo Mineiro.
Uberaba, Uberlândia, Araguari — Araguari, by the way, my mother's town — Cascalho Rico, Romaria.
What you notice is a lack of integration through infrastructure.
which for me is one of the problems of that regional integration.
About: create a project bank and improve bidding processes for road infrastructure
A new way of conducting procurement, a new way of presenting a road quality yearbook, and, third, a bank of highway infrastructure projects.
But this integration is one of the paths for us to deliver what you expect.
what the regional potentials are.
And that — a university professor couldn't give any other answer.
It's a permanent partnership with knowledge.
Unimontes, o Eng, o FMG, precisely to see where each potential will make local development happen.
About: industrialize and add value to lithium by developing a local battery production chain
Let's think about Jequitioinha and the substantial amount of lithium in the region.
You have Sigma, for example, one of the companies that is local.
When you use this resource, it connects with the universities.
There is quality employment arising from local development.
How do you improve that?
When lithium moves up from stage 1 of mining to stages 2 and 3 and reaches a level aimed at, of course, batteries.
Let's put it this way: what is my goal?
About: industrialize and add value to lithium by developing a local battery production chain
To be an exporting state.
Minas Gerais has done this since its discovery — that is, since the mines were discovered here: Ouro Preto exported more than 60% of the world's gold, but there was no school.
And then diamonds, coffee, ore.
and now we have entered the phase of rare earths and energies.
We need to turn the page on being a large exporter of commodities to the world, especially in this geopolitical scenario.
without adding knowledge and value.
It is with universities and regional integration, above all political integration too, that we will make each locality develop according to its potential.
Desconhecido
Candidate, you spoke of regional integration.
Desconhecido
Minas Gerais has the largest road network in Brazil, and one of the largest rail networks, with about 40% of the country's railway tracks.
Desconhecido
We know that Brazil's economy goes through Minas Gerais.
Desconhecido
Investment in railways is one of your proposals.
Desconhecido
Recently, Governor Romeu Zema himself tried to concession the short lines — the shorter branch lines in Minas Gerais — but that didn't go through.
Desconhecido
What is your proposal and in what way do you think the railways can contribute?
Desconhecido
to the development of the State.
Desconhecido
How to make it work?
- Neutral
About: present and articulate rail projects across levels to capture federal funds
Edilene, it's not that it didn't take off, it's that unfortunately it got stuck in the state's bureaucracy.
That's very sad.
I spoke with the president of NTT and he showed me clearly how each of the more than 20 short-rail or short-line projects run by the private sector are depending on the desk of some civil servant here in the government of Minas Gerais.
But how do we do it?
- Neutral
About: seek federal financing for local rail projects
There is in Brasília a compensation fund already on the order of R$ 20 billion.
Look at what Minister Renan did and what his successor Jorge Santoro is doing regarding rail concessions in Brazil.
About: present and articulate rail projects across levels to capture federal funds
We have to present the project, and then the project needs a governor who stays very on top of it, because we're talking about municipal, state, and federal levels.
And in order for us to present that project?
To seek that funding.
I insist.
About: coordinate with the federal government to secure resources and policies for Minas Gerais
The Governor of Minas Gerais shouldn't be posting videos on social media against the President of the Republic.
We need to take projects to Brasília and bring those projects to fruition with federal resources.
About: establish international and private-sector partnerships for modeling and financing railways
Second point: recently I made a point of going to London to talk with Crossrail International.
It's an agency created in partnership with the private sector and the British government that carried out, in my view, the largest railway infrastructure project there is — the Elizabeth Line in London.
To learn from them systems of modeling, financing, and resource mobilization.
And the most interesting thing, Adelene, is that when I arrived to talk at Crossrail International, I imagined I would find a large group of English people to receive me — there was Sheila.
A woman from Cataguases, the daughter of a railway worker, who studied engineering at FJF and later, thanks to a federal government scholarship, went to London, studied at a railway university and today is a PhD candidate in railway systems in Birmingham, helping to build railways all over the world.
About: establish international and private-sector partnerships for modeling and financing railways
She told me, moreover, that her agency is available to partner with the government of Minas Gerais; they have already sent every possible message, because they present projects and show how to finance them, and the local government... still hasn't responded.
The whole world has an abundant amount of resources to finance projects related to the green economy and decarbonization.
The other day, a journalist asked whether or not I had played with a toy train set when I was a child, because I have this passion for talking about the subject.
But it's not just passion, Adelaine.
Here in Minas Gerais... Everybody calls everything 'trem'.
And what is missing is precisely rail.
About: build and expand local and regional railways in Minas Gerais
When you look at the south of Minas, coffee exports, that coffee railway from Guaxupé, Varginha — i.e., that region to the port — changes the local reality.
If I take from Pirapora and go to the Northwest, we have a new agricultural frontier.
If I connect the Triângulo Mineiro, the agricultural folks, the cattle ranchers, will change their lives.
About: use mining funds and royalties to finance local rail infrastructure
And if I understand that trucks carrying ore can't keep destroying our roads all the time because of an overweight truck, and that the mining fund, like the Royalty for Region model of Western Australia, could be used for us to build local railways, we will make Minas Gerais develop.
Folks, in 2033, end CMS.
In fact, it's already starting to end before then.
There will be no more fiscal war; it won't be possible to keep a company in the State if it doesn't have infrastructure, workforce development through education, and legal certainty, beyond the security of reality.
Railway is not a dream; it's a necessity for Minas Gerais.
I know it's expensive to build, and it's much more expensive not to, because people are dying on the road, people stuck in traffic, people stuck in gridlock, trucks everywhere — that's unacceptable.
About: build and expand local and regional railways in Minas Gerais
Railway is a maxim, and if there was a president who said that governing is building roads, in my case, governing Minas Gerais will be about building railways.
About: implement long-term strategic planning for national development
And I know we won't finish it in four years, okay?
Enough populism; it's time for a bit of statesmanship.
We can't just want to do the works that are finished during the term.
It's time to make the population, society aware, that statesmanship and long-term thinking is to start something you won't finish.
It's starting something you won't inaugurate, but that the people of Minas will understand the importance of and will demand from the governors who come after.
By the way, many candidates are now talking about railways.
Because it became interesting to talk about, but there's one here who has, since the pre-candidacy, been defending this, not just as a dream, but showing how to do it.
Desconhecido
The president the candidate mentioned, Washington Luiz, who used to say that governing was opening roads.
Desconhecido
Candidate, let me connect the last two answers.
Besides, he shouldn't have betrayed the people of Minas, he shouldn't have betrayed them on that occasion; he should have gone on with that transition.
Was that betraying Minas Gerais?
That's never a good idea.
There's already a nice photo of the portrait of Washington Luiz being held upside down.
A portrait of him at the Palácio da Liberdade, in the time of Olegário Marcelo, but those are other stories.
Desconhecido
Exactly, otherwise this will turn into a telecourse of a history class, although it is one of the richest episodes in the history of the Republic — the breakup of the coffee-with-milk politics led to the Revolution of '30 — but that, anyway, as we said, is for another time.
Desconhecido
But I wanted to connect your last two answers, candidate, because they are quite interesting.
Desconhecido
You made that mention.
Desconhecido
The mineral wealth of Minas Gerais, for example, in relation to the potential for lithium exploration, at this moment when critical minerals, rare earths, have become important for the national and geopolitical debate.
Desconhecido
And you mentioned three pillars — infrastructure, education, and legal certainty — so that the economy can develop.
Desconhecido
But I ask you, and here's the cherry on top: you spoke of having a statesmanlike rather than populist vision when debating public issues in an electoral moment.
Desconhecido
What is within a governor's reach to do, for example, so that a state like Minas Gerais can make the best use of its riches in the current context?
Desconhecido
Globally, geopolitically, and what depends on the federal government, and therefore is not something only a governor can do, whether he is well-intentioned or not.
Desconhecido
So how do you — what policies do you propose?
Desconhecido
for that issue of mineral exploration?
Desconhecido
And what would the conversation be like — who do you see as a presidential candidate, or which presidential campaign has a better policy to take advantage of this window of opportunity that opens for Brazil in the face of this context of use of critical minerals and rare earths?
About: establish dialogue and coordination with the federal government on mining policies
Good — I co-authored a book on federalism with Professor Onofre Júnior.
And we coined a term: dependency federalism.
Unlike the American model, in which there is a lot of autonomy for the member states, here there is a true dependence on the Union.
And when the subject is mining, you can't make policy autonomously.
A lot of dialogue with the federal government is necessary.
Speaking of less populism, you must have followed Operação Rejeito, which is a corruption scandal within... the current state government.
About: create a regulatory framework to prevent corruption in natural resources contracts
Every time you have dependence on a permit with few clear rules in the sector and a variation of models that doesn't allow companies to keep up, you'll have a businessman wanting to pay someone to get an advantage.
So, the first point is a process with very clear rules.
Very clear.
Because otherwise you leave room for corruption... In fact, there has already been a kind of unification in this process.
The corruption in Rejeito involves the state government, the federal government — it's widespread.
About: create a regulatory framework for rare earths exploration
So, in that sense, there must be very clear rules.
Second point, you have to understand that there is a difference between rare earths and critical minerals.
Rare earths have that name because of the difficulty of the process of acquiring them.
Critical minerals vary from nation to nation.
depending on their needs.
- Neutral
About: develop value chain for rare earths
The technology for rare earths is very well mastered by China, which took years to achieve it.
About: develop value chain for rare earths
The fact that it's difficult doesn't mean we shouldn't bring the technology that allows us to reach as far as possible and economically viable.
About: develop a rare earths processing chain in Brazil
Because, I insist, you can't keep living by exporting raw materials.
About: prioritize national interests in international security decisions
Secondly, we can't enter into an international and ideological fight for this or that country without considering the interest of the sovereignty of the Brazilian people.
About: prioritize the interests of Minas Gerais in public policy formulation
The presidential candidate who will best serve the people of Minas Gerais is the one who thinks all the time about how to improve the wages of those who live in Minas Gerais, how to improve the knowledge of a student graduating from an engineering school who will be able to better develop our products.
About: expand infrastructure in Minas Gerais
How to make Minas Gerais have infrastructure?
About: supervise and monitor execution of public works by the government
Not just coming here to announce millions, millions, millions, but actually to follow the works with the governor to ensure that all this prospers here in the State.
I understand that at this moment of the presidential campaign everyone wants to decide or, in a way, compete to see who will flatter this or that presidential candidate the most.
Here is someone who draws a lot of inspiration.
He draws that inspiration, without turning this into a telecourse of history, from many of the governors who have already sat in the chair I intend to occupy.
Juscelino Kubitschek, Tancredo Neves, Afonso Pena, Benedito Valadares.
And there's a formula, Milton Campos knew it very well, that always works and never goes out of style.
About: prioritize the interests of Minas Gerais in public policy formulation
Firstly, Minas Gerais.
About: prioritize the interests of Minas Gerais in public policy formulation
Secondly, Minas Gerais.
About: prioritize the interests of Minas Gerais in public policy formulation
Thirdly, Minas Gerais.
About: prioritize the interests of Minas Gerais in public policy formulation
Fourthly, the interests of the people of Minas.
This applies to any candidate.
Whoever defends this will obviously be better for Minas Gerais.
Desconhecido
Caio Junqueira, we're in the final stretch of our interview here.
I wanted to ask you how you intend to deconstruct Cleitinho's candidacy, who is leading the election in Minas Gerais.
Man... We started this conversation here with you questioning me about my past.
After all, I started at 20 years old and I've already fought enough.
About: avoid tearing down opponents during the campaign
I have no intention whatsoever of tearing anyone down.
As Juscelino Kubitschek would say, I wasn't born to keep hatred or grudges; I was born to build.
About: avoid tearing down opponents during the campaign
The line of people wanting to tear others down is already too crowded, my dear.
About: conduct a campaign focused on government proposals rather than police investigations
I want to build, I want to propose.
About: implement a large federal railway infrastructure program (São Paulo–Curitiba/Rio train and rail network expansion)
I want to show the person watching me here on CNN that it is possible to imagine that Minas Gerais has railways.
About: reduce waiting times for consultations, tests and surgeries in the SUS
It's possible to imagine queues that don't remain stuck when it comes to surgeries for patients.
About: improve learning in public schools of Minas Gerais
That it's possible for us to have schools that achieve learning.
About: mobilize all federal institutions to combat organized crime
That it is possible to have a public security system unified with the federal government to combat criminal organizations and not the institutions of democracy.
About: reduce homicides and combat organized crime
I want, outside of Minas Gerais, the PCC — they're the ones I want to dismantle.
About: reduce homicides and combat organized crime
Comando Vermelho — they're the ones I want to dismantle.
About: reform low-performing schools to improve learning
The school that doesn't teach — that's what I want to dismantle.
About: preserve respect and allow opponents to present their government plans
Regarding my adversaries, let each one build his own government plan and proposals.
About: practice dialogue and respect with political opponents
I know it's not fashionable to be a politician who dialogues and respects opponents.
But, as our mother would say, you're not everyone.
About: conduct a campaign focused on government proposals rather than police investigations
If in Brazil it became... very typical for a politician to use this space that CNN gives me to insult others, I really want to propose.
And it may be that this keeps me away from victory.
AI classification from the transcript of a public video. See the Methodology