Video transcript
DEBATE PRESIDENCIAL - INTELIGÊNCIA LTDA. #1937
1324 statements · 3 politicians · September 19, 2026 · 134 min
Statements by Augusto Cury, Romeu Zema, Samara Martins. 1324 transcribed statements, with topic and stance on the ones the analysis classified. Topics: Combating Impunity, Parties and Elections, Monetary Policy, Politics.
Speakers
Transcript
1,324 statementsFull transcript of the video. Statements the analysis classified carry topic and stance.
Rogério Vilela
For those watching, news: Metrópolis is now also on TV.
Rogério Vilela
With its usual fearless journalism, they've assembled the country's best team of analysts, journalists and columnists to deliver the biggest scoops to you in real time.
Rogério Vilela
You can follow TV Metrópolis on YouTube and also on Samsung, TSL and LG Smart TVs via Fast TV.
Rogério Vilela
With a schedule packed with football, news and entertainment.
Rogério Vilela
The irreverence of the site, now on... your TV.
Rogério Vilela
All right then, earthlings, let's start now on this historic night, and even before the first question is asked — this is the first debate, I have to tell you, in this format held in Brazil, without a stiff podium, without that traditional TV studio atmosphere.
Rogério Vilela
The candidates for the presidency of the Republic are seated here, ready for an open conversation, which is the debate that always happens over on the podcast.
Rogério Vilela
We've already done more than 75 debates over there.
Rogério Vilela
All kinds of political figures have appeared on the program.
Rogério Vilela
With all that — in this dynamic, this rhythm, and this closeness to you watching — I hope you enjoy it.
Rogério Vilela
This debate is a production of Inteligência Limitada in partnership with the Metrópolis portal and G4.
Rogério Vilela
And we're here in their space, right?
Rogério Vilela
This whole assembled studio was put together to look as much as possible like my studio over there, which couldn't hold the crowd.
Rogério Vilela
And you wouldn't believe it, there are a lot of people here.
Rogério Vilela
I ask the people who are also watching the program not to cheer, otherwise the crowd will remove you.
Rogério Vilela
So, stay cool.
Rogério Vilela
We have the bad news that we have two last-minute dropouts.
Rogério Vilela
Besides Lula and Flávio, who aren't going to any debates.
Rogério Vilela
After confirming their attendance, the candidates Renan Santos and Caiado withdrew from participating.
Rogério Vilela
Renan Santos presented a series of justifications, including hoarseness and the fact that he was traveling around Brazil.
Rogério Vilela
And Caiado also cited a health reason and will not attend either, right?
Rogério Vilela
The schedule was released hours before the cancellation.
Rogério Vilela
However, you know, a candidate who doesn't go to the debate, when he has no justification, I think that's outrageous.
Rogério Vilela
I don't know if we can go forward from here.
Rogério Vilela
There is a law that the candidate has an X number of debates he must attend.
Rogério Vilela
Why?
Rogério Vilela
It's the first time he'll be put under pressure.
Rogério Vilela
He's not just speaking to his own audience, he's speaking to other candidates.
Rogério Vilela
He will be questioned, he will be questioned by the public, by journalists.
Rogério Vilela
So, let's move on to the opening statements of this first block.
Rogério Vilela
Each candidate has one and a half minutes and everything here has been arranged.
Rogério Vilela
The draw has already been held.
Rogério Vilela
The teams observed, and the order of participation was set, so whenever you see it.
Rogério Vilela
I'm not the one deciding, it was decided by draw.
Rogério Vilela
So the order of the opening statements is as follows.
Rogério Vilela
Zema starts, then Samara, then Cury.
Rogério Vilela
Let's go?
Rogério Vilela
Timer on the screen.
Rogério Vilela
Go ahead, director.
Rogério Vilela
Zema, the floor is yours.
Rogério Vilela
Introduce yourself to the people and thank you very much for being here with us.
Good evening, Velela.
Good evening to everyone watching us.
I want to greet Cury and Samara.
who are here with us, and thank you for the opportunity, and congratulate Metrópolis, G4, and Vilela for organizing this.
- For
About: investigate and punish illicit practices with exemplary penalties
I want to express my indignation, my frustration as a Brazilian with what is happening in Brasília, more specifically in the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal), which has turned into a marketplace of deals.
- For
About: investigate and punish illicit practices with exemplary penalties
The body that should be a reference court, that sets good examples, has become the court of corruption and banditry, where we are watching in astonishment events we never imagined could happen in Brazil.
- For
About: investigate and punish illicit practices with exemplary penalties
Ministers allying themselves, talking, traveling, doing business with criminals.
Mr. Daniel Vorcaro.
- For
About: investigate and punish illicit practices with exemplary penalties
And I, as a candidate, have fought against these untouchables.
- For
About: implement measures to prevent corruption in public administration
And now I am outraged by the position of our president, who doesn't criticize... who does little about it, and now, approaching the election, is even launching populist measures.
- Against
About: eleger Lula como presidente da República
We cannot have Lula leading Brazil for the next four years; otherwise, this continues.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you, Zema.
Rogério Vilela
Zema, debuting in debates here too, right?
Rogério Vilela
It's the first presidential debate he's doing here with us, and there's another newcomer as well.
Rogério Vilela
He said 'Samara', but is it 'Samara' or 'Samara'?
Rogério Vilela
Samara.
Rogério Vilela
Samara, then let's go, okay?
Rogério Vilela
Samara, one and a half minutes as well, welcome.
Rogério Vilela
Introduce yourself to the people and give your opening remarks.
Vilela, thank you very much for the invitation, thanks to Metrópole, to the podcast Inteligência Limitada.
For us at Unidade Popular this space is very important, because we are not debutants by choice, it wasn't because we chose not to participate in the others, but because they don't invite us to the debates, so this invitation is very important for us.
I am Samara Martins, I am a dentist in the SUS, in the Family Health Strategy, I was born in Minas Gerais, but today I'm a potigua.
I've lived in Natal for 14 years, in the outskirts of Natal, I'm married, mother of two children, and I take part in social movements and in the activism of social movements.
Since I was 17, I started the struggle in Minas Gerais, with the fight for the half-fare pass, in defense of education.
public secondary education.
So, I've been in this struggle for a long time.
And Unidade Popular, which was legalized in 2019, is one of the most recent leftist parties in Brazil.
About: increase the minimum wage by 100%
And we present a program whose priority is the workers, confronting the rich who today dominate our country, advocating a 100% increase in the minimum wage, a reduction in working hours against the 6x1 shift pattern, for an audit and the suspension of public debt payments, understanding that the most important thing should not be profit, not capital, not money, but the quality of life of our people.
And this is Unidade Popular's stance.
So, get to know Unidade Popular, vote 80 for president.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you, Samara.
Rogério Vilela
Now let's go to Cury.
Rogério Vilela
And also reminding that they didn't put any gummies out for me.
Rogério Vilela
There are gummies for everyone and for me.
Rogério Vilela
There aren't any here.
Desconhecido
That's unfair, you can use mine.
Rogério Vilela
I'll take yours.
Rogério Vilela
Cury, please introduce yourself to the people.
Rogério Vilela
One and a half minutes.
Rogério Vilela
Welcome.
A great honor, Vilela, to be together once again.
Congratulations to Metrópolis, congratulations to Inteligência Limitada.
I want to solemnly congratulate Samara Martins, the only woman candidate for the presidency.
Desconhecido
Indeed.
Just being here is a privilege and an honor to debate with you.
To my dear friend Zema, thank you very much as well for being here.
And also outraged, because Lula... And Flávio Bolsonaro, who should be here to debate the country's main problems, doesn't debate, because he's afraid of debate, because they want to preserve their poll numbers much more than to preserve the country.
- For
About: reduzir a polarização política e priorizar propostas e projetos
This country has to end this insane polarization, this radicalization that has suffocated the Brazilian nation, and we have to start talking about projects to truly change things.
Quality of life for 210 million Brazilians.
I also want to send a message to the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal).
What happened recently was almost like a theater.
And Flávio Dino requested a review and, once again, we will sweep the nation's major problems under the rug.
- For
About: assegurar julgamento célere de casos envolvendo políticos antes das eleições
and the two great families, Lula da Silva and the Bolsonaro family, which have several members involved with Banco Master, have no interest in it being judged before October 4 and, consequently, will not... will not provide conditions for the voter to have sufficient food to exercise the solemn right of their vote on October 4.
Let's talk about projects, let's talk about Brazil, about our dreams.
I bow before society to serve it.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you, Cury.
Rogério Vilela
Now let's move on to the explanation of the first block, how it will work.
Rogério Vilela
We ask you, candidates, not to throw chairs at one another, because in the last debates there was chair-throwing.
Rogério Vilela
brawling.
Rogério Vilela
I can see you are calm here.
Rogério Vilela
Let's keep that atmosphere.
Rogério Vilela
Not even a gummy may be thrown here, okay?
Rogério Vilela
It's considered a serious offense.
Rogério Vilela
So let's go.
Desconhecido
What's this gummy for, by the way?
Rogério Vilela
It's because it's a trademark of our podcast.
Rogério Vilela
There's always gummy candy on the table.
Rogério Vilela
When you went there, there was gummy candy, remember?
Desconhecido
Yeah, you know, I don't remember.
Rogério Vilela
Yeah, there was a little gummy there.
Rogério Vilela
So it's for... While you're not speaking and you're listening to the other, you can grab a little gummy and be more at ease.
Rogério Vilela
So, the first block will... It will work like this.
Rogério Vilela
Shall we roll the bumper or should I explain?
Rogério Vilela
You explain.
Rogério Vilela
Yeah, I'll explain.
Rogério Vilela
You're lazy, huh?
Rogério Vilela
I'm always the one who explains.
Rogério Vilela
There was a video explaining it, I'll explain.
Rogério Vilela
So let's go.
Rogério Vilela
First block, the candidates debate among themselves.
Rogério Vilela
There are two rounds of questions, that is... Everyone asks everyone about topics defined by our production team.
Rogério Vilela
The clock is the boss.
Rogério Vilela
The speaking order, as we already said, was pre-defined for this block.
Rogério Vilela
Whoever asks has one minute.
Rogério Vilela
That's it, that's all.
Rogério Vilela
Whoever answers gets a four-minute bank and can use that time however they want for the initial answer.
Rogério Vilela
But attention, you have to manage that bank well, because it will also be the time for the tréplica.
Rogério Vilela
Because there's the question, they answer, there's the réplica.
Rogério Vilela
And then there's the tréplica.
Rogério Vilela
So you can save a little time for the tréplica, otherwise you'll be left only with the questioner's réplica.
Rogério Vilela
Next, the questioner has the right to two minutes of réplica.
Rogério Vilela
And to close, the respondent makes the tréplica with whatever remains in the bank.
Rogério Vilela
Understood?
Rogério Vilela
We talked beforehand, everyone understood.
Rogério Vilela
So consider this a warning.
Rogério Vilela
If you spend everything on the answer, there won't be time left to defend yourself afterwards.
Rogério Vilela
The floor is with the candidates.
Rogério Vilela
In the first round we will have, following the pre-defined order... Cury asks Samara about the economy.
Rogério Vilela
Samara asks Zema about foreign policy.
Rogério Vilela
Zema asks Cury about corruption.
Rogério Vilela
And in the second round we will have the following order.
Rogério Vilela
Cury... I'll speak when it's the second round, that's better, right?
Rogério Vilela
First round, then.
Rogério Vilela
Let's go.
Rogério Vilela
Cury asks Samara about the economy.
Desconhecido
Hello.
Well, Samara, it's a great pleasure to pose this question to you.
I want to know the following.
What is the role of large companies in an economy?
And how many small businesses are there in Brazil?
and how much are these small businesses responsible for the increase in employment?
and what would you do to expand the economy, highlighting medium, small and microenterprises?
Desconhecido
Perfect.
Desconhecido
May I?
Desconhecido
Shall we?
Desconhecido
Thanks.
About: implement policies to preserve jobs and protect small businesses
We understand that our country's economy today is even dominated by large companies, it is dominated by agribusiness, it is dominated by bankers and that even prevents the development of our country.
- Neutral
About: reduce interest spending and control the Selic
We have a public budget where half of it, 42% of the budget, is destined for the payment of interest and amortizations of a debt that goes precisely to that sector, to the bankers, to the financial oligarchies.
- Neutral
About: aumentar investimento público em pequenos produtores
Even small landowners, small producers receive less investment from the government, from the budget, than the large business owners, who normally receive large injections and tax exemptions.
About: regular a concentração de poder econômico e priorizar trabalhadores
And we believe that the economy of our country cannot be controlled by these big business owners, by these bankers, which is precisely what we were discussing here, and what you also raised in your opening remarks.
- Neutral
About: investigate meetings between authorities and investigated bankers
Look at what causes a financial scandal in our country, a bank that controls, even politically, our country, corrupting ministers, deputies, senators, a former central bank president.
About: change the current economic policy
So, we can no longer remain in this economic logic.
About: develop science, technology and industrialize the country
Moreover, understanding that guaranteeing a sovereign country, guaranteeing an independent country, is not being a mere exporter of raw materials, it is developing technologically, it is developing our country's industry.
And we have defended, indeed, the economy,
having as a reference not the big entrepreneurs, not the rich of our country, but the workers.
And it is from this perspective that we have discussed the economy and the budget.
About: increase the minimum wage by 100%
It is necessary to increase the minimum wage by 100%, because it is impossible to live on R$ 1,621.
About: reduce weekly working hours
It is necessary to reduce the working hours, because this work schedule, the 'six-for-one', and others, including those that have been presented as great for our people, like the uberization, the shift to individual contractor status, they are exhausting for workers.
Desconhecido
Let's go.
There are about 24 million micro and small businesses and they are responsible for 80% of the new jobs and, indeed, they must be embraced.
- For
About: split BNDES into two (one bank for large companies and one for microenterprises)
And I have in the project to split the BNDES in two.
- For
About: criar linha de crédito do BNDES para micro e pequenas empresas
BNDES for large companies and, for the first time, a BNDES... for micro and small businesses so that, over the next years, we can finance 10 million microenterprises.
so that people, whether in communities or favelas, have an entrepreneurship school, an entrepreneur's bank, and for the first time in public schools as well, to have a branch of the entrepreneur's bank, an entrepreneurship school, including you here from the G4, teaching and guiding public school students free of charge, so that they can dream, to have a place in the sun in a highly competitive society, and we know that artificial intelligence and robotics are coming, and there may be nothing left, because millions... Millions of jobs will be lost, whether cognitive jobs, which rely more on reasoning, or more labor-intensive jobs.
- For
About: split BNDES into two (one bank for large companies and one for microenterprises)
Therefore, if we do not transform the BNDES... into a BNDES for microenterprise as well, we will not have a distributed economy and it could be chaos.
We do not have a country that is fiscally responsible, therefore, we will not be able to have a general income.
- For
About: implement policies for a distributed economy and prepare for automation
It is necessary, therefore, to have a distributed economy and in my government, certainly, we will have the conditions to embrace the Brazilian nation to make it one of the most entrepreneurial nations on the planet.
Rogério Vilela
Let's go, tréplica.
Rogério Vilela
Let me show on the screen, there's one minute and fifty seconds.
About: evitar a pejotização do trabalho e fortalecer direitos trabalhistas
From our perspective, moreover, this idea of entrepreneurship is an illusion that capitalism sells to the youth, even saying that now the shift to contractor status is the best way out for our people.
and youth start creating companies.
and it is these very... entrepreneurs, who end up being the employees with huge schedules in order to meet their targets.
So, we do not believe that this is the path for the development of work, employment and income in our country.
About: implement public work fronts to integrate beneficiaries into the labor market
We have defended the creation of emergency work fronts, that the government itself guarantee the creation of these jobs, so as to ensure, indeed, dignity in work, as I said, in terms of pay, working hours, etc.
So, we do not follow that same perspective.
Understanding... All those issues I mentioned at the beginning.
About: strengthen income transfer programs (Bolsa Família)
And also, the idea of generating jobs and income also goes in the sense that today there is a big controversy about increasing Bolsa Família and that this is an absurdity, etc.
About: reduzir transferências públicas ao setor financeiro
What is an absurdity in our country is the 'Banker Allowance' (Bolsa Banqueiro), which takes 1.8 trillion from our budget and that is what we have to confront.
So, it is not Bolsa Família, job and income generation are necessary, it is necessary to increase the income of our people, because 80% of families are in debt to be able to guarantee food, to be, even, hoping that the BEDs are what solve it and they must be banned in our country, because our people have gotten into debt to... to be able to get to the end of the month still being able to afford groceries, to keep the family organized.
So, it is job creation.
About: implement public work fronts to integrate beneficiaries into the labor market
And the government itself can do this to guarantee the resolution of housing, basic sanitation, the industrialization of our country.
Rogério Vilela
All right.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you very much.
Rogério Vilela
Now it's Samara's turn, since she's holding the microphone, she can take advantage and ask Zema.
Rogério Vilela
The chosen topic was foreign policy.
Rogério Vilela
Perfect.
Desconhecido
May I?
Desconhecido
You may.
Desconhecido
Wait a moment.
Desconhecido
You may now, sorry.
About: prioritize multilateralism and regional integration in foreign policy
Candidate, we have discussed in the popular unity the need for relations with other countries, a perspective of cooperation between countries, of solidarity between peoples, and not in the logic that imperialist capitalism proposes,
About: express support for Palestine
which is of wars, and wars have been advancing, and I would even take this opportunity to declare our support for the Palestinian people, for the Cuban people, who have faced U.S. imperialism.
About: adopt an independent foreign policy toward China and the United States
And we believe that Brazil should not submit to any imperialism, whether it is U.S. or Chinese.
About: adopt an independent foreign policy toward China and the United States
So, what is your proposal?
Is it submission to the United States or is it the independence of Brazil?
Desconhecido
Samara.
Desconhecido
Samara.
Desconhecido
Samara, sorry.
You need to have an accent there.
- For
About: reduzir a dependência de um único parceiro comercial
I have always been a shopkeeper, I come from a family of shopkeepers, and one of the things that most harms someone who runs a business and harms a country too is having a very large dependence on one client.
- For
About: reduce Brazil's economic dependence on foreign powers and combat imperialism
And today, Brazil depends heavily on China, and that is bad.
- Neutral
About: reduce Brazil's economic dependence on foreign powers and combat imperialism
If tomorrow China says, 'I will stop buying Brazilian products,' Brazil will suffer a gigantic negative impact.
- For
About: diversify exports and reduce excessive economic dependence on China
So what Brazil needs is to diversify its sales.
- For
About: diversify exports and reduce excessive economic dependence on China
No country in the world should account for more than 10% of the sales that Brazil makes.
- Neutral
About: diversify exports and reduce excessive economic dependence on China
And today China represents more than 30%.
- For
About: diversify exports and reduce excessive economic dependence on China
And whoever loses 30% of their market is in deep trouble.
- Against
About: participate in economic blocs favorable to Brazil
And what I want is for Brazil to be out of the BRICS.
- Against
About: participate in economic blocs favorable to Brazil
The BRICS are a patchwork quilt.
- Against
About: participate in economic blocs favorable to Brazil
The BRICS have nothing in common, there are countries from Asia, countries from Africa, countries from the Americas.
- For
About: fortalecer blocos econômicos regionais
What we need is to strengthen economic blocs.
- Neutral
About: fortalecer blocos econômicos regionais
We have here Mercosul, which is little used.
- Neutral
About: fortalecer blocos econômicos regionais
Argentina is right next to us, Uruguay is right next to us, Paraguay is right next to us, Chile the same.
- For
About: fortalecer blocos econômicos regionais
And it makes sense for them to produce something over there and for us to have an exchange here, which can even be transported by road or by rail, those goods, and not need to travel from one side of the world to the other.
- For
About: diversify exports and reduce excessive economic dependence on China
So what I want is a Brazil that has many customers and not a Brazil that stays tied up, as has happened with China.
- Against
About: participate in economic blocs favorable to Brazil
Remember that BRICS is a bloc that has much more to do with pro-China interests than properly with Brazilian interests.
Desconhecido
Two minutes for the rebuttal.
- Against
About: privatize state-owned companies
So, we have understood, including in the defense of the sovereignty and independence of our country, that privatizations should not occur.
- Neutral
About: privatize state-owned companies
And in the candidate's program there is a strong defense of privatizations; he has even defended this with great conviction.
- Against
About: privatize state-owned companies
In fact, I am from Minas Gerais and my family lives in Minas Gerais, and this issue of privatizations, including Copasa, my father is a Copasa worker.
- Against
About: privatize state-owned companies
This is a surrender of our sovereignty, especially because a large part of these privatizations is carried out for foreign companies.
About: ensure state control over oil and strategic natural resources
And having in the hands of other countries central matters, strategic minerals, strategic wealth for our country, is not defending sovereignty; it is not defending the economic independence of our country.
About: ensure state control over oil and strategic natural resources
So we have defended ending privatizations, nationalizing all the riches of our country.
About: ensure state control over oil and strategic natural resources
And this applies to iron ore, as in Minas Gerais: mining has proceeded rampantly, even destroying the environment in our country.
About: ensure state control over oil and strategic natural resources
It is defending, moreover, rare earths and oil in the hands of the State, so that we are not at the mercy of these other countries, whether they are Chinese or from the United States.
This is the defense of popular unity, which is the guarantee of sovereignty.
Relations with other countries are difficult.
They should be of cooperation, of harmony, including because Brazil is one of the largest producers of all raw materials in the world, but it still behaves like a colony, like a mere exporter of raw materials, just as we did before.
And our ancestors fought so that we would not be a colony of any imperialist power, whether Portuguese, Dutch, Chinese, or from the United States, and this is the defense of popular unity, against privatizations and the handing over of natural riches.
Desconhecido
All right.
Desconhecido
Zema, now it's the rejoinder.
- For
About: privatize state-owned companies
Well, I am in favor of privatizations because that is what has shown to work around the world, including here in Brazil.
- Neutral
About: privatize state-owned companies
We do not have Alimentobras here in Brazil.
- For
About: privatize state-owned companies
And perhaps that is why Brazil is the most competitive country in the world in the production and export of food.
- For
About: privatize state-owned companies
If it were in the hands of the government, in the same way that we have already had Petrolão and now have BRB, we would certainly be seeing more scandals.
- Neutral
About: privatize state-owned companies
The only bank that got involved with Master was a state bank.
Look at that, huh?
- For
About: privatize state-owned companies
The private ones didn't get involved with criminals, no.
- For
About: privatize state-owned companies
But a bank that has political influence got involved with criminals.
- Against
About: nacionalizar empresas estatais e riquezas estratégicas
And we have here, to the north of Brazil, a country from which more than 10 million people have already emigrated, where practically everything was nationalized.
- Against
About: nacionalizar empresas estatais e riquezas estratégicas
Maybe what you want is for Brazil to follow the path of Venezuela, which is a country today devastated, a country much, much poorer than it was 30, 40, 50 years ago.
- Against
About: nacionalizar empresas estatais e riquezas estratégicas
Maybe you venerate, you like Hugo Chaves, Nicolas Maduro, who did that to his country.
It seems that your recipe is exactly the same.
And I want what is best for Brazilians.
And I was re-elected in Minas Gerais because the people of Minas saw that their state advanced.
Rogério Vilela
All right.
Rogério Vilela
Now let's go to the last... question of this first round: Zema asks Cury about corruption, clarifying that the topics were also drawn by lot, they were not chosen either.
Rogério Vilela
So, let's go, Zema.
- For
About: impeach STF ministers
Cury, I was the only governor who personally went to the National Congress to file a request for the impeachment of Alexandre de Moraes.
- Neutral
About: acabar com a corrupção no Supremo Tribunal Federal
And I would like to know what are... your ideas, your proposals, for us to get out of this crisis, to end this corruption that we have today in the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal).
Thank you for the question, Zema.
We need to revamp Brazil and we must also look at the examples of Latin America in focus, why it did not develop adequately compared to Europe.
We have at least three kinds of cancers.
- Against
About: allow re-election for executive offices
The first cancer is re-election.
Re-election flirts with populism and with self-perpetuation in power.
- For
About: reform the role of the STF and the judicial system
The second cancer is the imbalance of the branches of government.
And we are witnessing clearly the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) not only acting as guardian of the Constitution, but also legislating.
And, unfortunately, what is happening in the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) causes us to lose, causes the Brazilian people to lose...
confidence in the institutions.
The branches of government must be harmonious, as you know.
But, unfortunately, this preponderance of the STF, which is also the result of the fragility of the Congress and the Senate—because if they were stronger, this would not have occurred—and of the interference of the Executive.
- For
About: estabelecer mandato de oito anos para ministros do Supremo Tribunal Federal
We must have eight-year terms for ministers of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal).
Eight years, then he should leave and never return.
- For
About: allow professional classes and associations to participate in choosing STF ministers
In addition, two seats should be for ministers who are career judges.
Two or three from the Public Prosecutor's Office and one lawyer.
And they should be chosen not by the president, but by their own professional bodies.
For example, by the Association of Magistrates of Brazil, where I had the privilege of giving several conferences and trainings for free; also chosen by the Public Prosecutor's Office; and the lawyer chosen by the OAB.
Because if we do that, we will have an STF much fairer and with renewal from the most diverse minds who have experience in the judiciary, an unblemished curriculum and notable conduct as well.
But look, several of them entered, or at least Toffoli entered at 41 years old, Gilmar Mendes at around 48 years old, and several more recently entered at 47 years old.
And they will remain until 75 years old.
That is not fair.
Their tenure does not belong to the ministers themselves, because they are employees of society, as are all those who are elected, who are hired by vote.
So a minister who is career, and an executive—in this case, the president—or a deputy, all of them are employees of the taxpayer.
But it seems that in Brazil they behave as if they were owners of the position.
- For
About: estabelecer mandato de oito anos para ministros do Supremo Tribunal Federal
Therefore, without a doubt, there should be a complete change to life tenure.
Another important point: we have not developed adequately because there was a lack of management.
- For
About: replace presidentialism with a semi-presidential system with a prime minister
We should change from presidentialism to a semi-presidential system.
The president would remain in the strategic role; he would take care of foreign policy
and other fundamental points, and a prime minister would manage this country with a capitalist mindset, meritocracy, entrepreneurship, a lean State, fiscal responsibility, preservation of the family, and at the same time would have a social heart to care for people's pains, because more than 90% of pains have no partisan color.
Desconhecido
Shall we?
Desconhecido
Let's go.
Thank you, Cury.
- For
About: require a minimum age of 60 for appointment to the STF
I would like you, Cury, to also consider: one of the proposals I have is a minimum age of 60, which does not exclude anything you said.
In my opinion, someone who reaches 60 years generally already has their family raised, their financial situation resolved, and the level of maturity that you, who are a specialist on the issue, know very well will want much more to contribute
than to line their pockets with money, as has been happening today.
So, I'll leave that for you to consider as a possibility.
- For
About: proibir decisões monocráticas por ministros do STF
Another proposal I have is to end monocratic decisions, which I consider a great absurdity.
Four hundred deputies, four hundred and fifty deputies vote on a proposal and one minister speaks on constitutionality.
And that, for me, is... inadmissible.
- For
About: avoid conflicts of interest involving relatives of STF ministers
And another point we must be very, very careful about is the relatives of ministers, who use the minister's position to obtain contracts and enrich themselves.
My proposal also is that first- and second-degree relatives should not be able to practice
legal activity, at least within the jurisdiction where that magistrate is acting.
Otherwise, we end up with this trafficking of influence, since many times a minister today—a judge, a magistrate—ends up judging cases of the law firm where someone in his family is a partner.
But we need to take action.
We cannot continue as things are.
Rogério Vilela
So, Cury has only 20 seconds for the rejoinder, is that it?
- For
About: replace presidentialism with a semi-presidential system with a prime minister
I think it's a bit... Of the 20 countries that developed the most, 19 were parliamentary or semi-presidential, and only one presidential country was the United States.
Zema, there really must be a limit.
- For
About: estabelecer limite máximo de idade para nomeação de ministros do STF (50 anos)
I set a limit of 50 years.
- For
About: investigate possible irregularities involving ministers of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal)
And we have to investigate ministers.
- For
About: remover ministros condenados por corrupção do cargo imediatamente
Corrupt ministers must leave office immediately if they are convicted.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you.
Rogério Vilela
Let's go to the second block, then.
Rogério Vilela
But before, let me explain one thing that the advisers and the candidates already know.
Rogério Vilela
For the right of reply, in case there is a need to request a right of reply, the commission is composed of an attorney specialized in electoral law and a journalist from Metrópolis, from the Metrópolis portal.
Rogério Vilela
The request, as they already know, needs to be made verbally by the candidate or an authorized adviser immediately after the statement indicated as offensive.
Rogério Vilela
If accepted, the candidate is granted the right
Rogério Vilela
to use one minute of speech, an exercise carried out at the beginning of the subsequent block or before the final remarks.
Rogério Vilela
From the second round, then.
Rogério Vilela
Let's now go to the second round of questions.
Rogério Vilela
First, it is Cury asking Zema about the STF and the judiciary.
Zema, what would you do so that we have a much more balanced judiciary?
in relation to the other two branches.
And I want to know if you are in favor of impeaching judges who are corrupt.
And why the Senate, it is weak and does not take the proper actions to impeach a judge.
In your opinion, you, as someone who intends to be President of the Republic, concretely, how would you change this situation?
Cure.
- Neutral
About: reduce spending of the STF and the Judiciary
Today, Brazil's judiciary is going through a crisis, I think, in every respect.
First, it is the second most expensive judiciary in the world.
That is, it weighs on Brazilian society, it costs a lot.
Brazilians today pay more taxes because of a judiciary that accumulates inefficiency and fat.
Second, it is a slow judiciary.
I come from the private sector.
At the company I managed, there were cases that were already reaching 60 years without a solution.
60 years following a case, paying a lawyer.
That is inadmissible.
- For
About: aumentar agilidade e eficiência do judiciário
It is necessary to have more agility.
There is, in fact, that saying.
Delayed justice is no longer justice.
It is no use paying compensation, as I saw there in Minas Gerais, after 50 years, you are paying the compensation to the grandson.
The son lost the opportunity to be educated and, sometimes, even the grandson, with that money that could have been received.
- For
About: agilizar pagamento de indenizações e reparações em desastres
So much so that I made a point... in the Brumadinho tragedy, of speeding up reparations as much as possible for those who were affected.
I went to the Public Ministry, I went to the Court of Justice, I went to the Public Defender's Office and I said, we are going to... pay that compensation quickly.
And it was even faster than Mariana, which had happened three years earlier under the PT government, which did absolutely nothing.
So, even someone outside the Executive... manages to speed up what depends on the judiciary.
But we depend on major reforms.
- For
About: afastar magistrados corruptos do cargo e responsabilizá-los
We need to remove corrupt judges and magistrates, who today receive a reward of early retirement.
any Brazilian would want an early retirement.
Today a corrupt judge, a corrupt magistrate has that prerogative.
- For
About: impeach STF ministers
And the problem in the Senate, Cury, is the president, who is a coward, who is involved up to his neck with Banco Master and does not allow the impeachment of the thieves of the Supreme Court to be voted.
Desconhecido
Two minutes for the reply.
- For
About: carry out Judiciary reform
Once again, I reiterate, if we do not carry out a profound reform of the judiciary—and we must urge Congress to vote on this reform, both the federal deputies and the Senate—there will be no solution.
- For
About: estabelecer mandato de oito anos para ministros do Supremo Tribunal Federal
If we do not limit them to eight years and then have them leave so they never vote again, we will not have a renewal of jurists of the highest level.
Indeed, the Senate... It is extremely weakened, it does not fully exercise its role, because there is promiscuity with some people, with Banco Master, this is a shame, more than 50 billion reais at the heart of this scandal.
And it is dishonest money.
The Dark Horse money is dishonest money.
The money that Forcar used, for example, 15 to 20 million to finance the 15-year celebration of his daughter, is dishonest money, from 18 pension funds and from more than 12 million people who invested.
Could those people not see that this abundant money, which compromised members of the most diverse branches, could not have been the result of an honest profit from a bank?
It is absurd.
This promiscuity must end.
I hope that the Congress, which will renew itself, and that the Senate will also renew itself, will be much faster, much more swift.
- For
About: julgar com celeridade e responsabilizar membros do STF
And I also hope, and I will look Dr. Fachin and all the STF members in the eyes, that within a week they can take the trial to its last consequences, come what may.
Because, I reiterate, they have a boss.
And that boss... is the taxpayer.
That boss is the contributor and demands answers.
Desconhecido
Zema.
- For
About: responsabilizar e punir magistrados corruptos
I want to conclude here, reminding that here in Brazil we have already had a councilor, mayor, state deputy, federal deputy, senator, president, who lost their office.
Some even were imprisoned.
Now, we have never had a judge.
A magistrate who went through that.
- For
About: combat privileges in the Judiciary
I would like those who are magistrates, those who follow them, to look after the profession.
This corporatism has cost the magistrates' profession very dearly.
It is becoming clear that it seems they do not expose those rotten apples.
I was an entrepreneur and businessman.
There are businessmen who are crooks, swindlers, and there are businessmen who are honest, who are ethical.
So, everywhere there are good people and bad people.
And here in Brazil we created this aura that if one is a magistrate, if one is a judge, if one is an appellate judge, if one is a minister.
It is as if they were a perfect being.
And that is why I am fighting against these untouchables, who consider themselves today the owners of Brazil.
They have privatized the Brazilian State.
They consider themselves first-class citizens and us second-class.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you, Zema.
Rogério Vilela
Now let's go to Samara asking.
Rogério Vilela
Ask about security.
About: turn laws into effective protection and allocate budget to prevent violence against women
Candidate, the discussion of public safety also includes the issue of women's safety and violence against women.
And this is a very dear topic, because I, as a woman... have experienced what violence against women is.
In fact, we are not safe anywhere, neither in public spaces nor in the domestic sphere.
And this, for us, is a primary issue.
- Neutral
About: turn laws into effective protection and allocate budget to prevent violence against women
And most governments do not guarantee a budget to combat violence against women.
- Neutral
About: deploy long-range drones and identification cameras for security
And in your program, you presented the idea of drones to be able to save women from violence.
- Against
About: deploy long-range drones and identification cameras for security
And we consider that extremely insufficient, because the lives of women... is also an economic debate.
- Neutral
About: turn laws into effective protection and allocate budget to prevent violence against women
What do you say about that?
First of all, I would ask you to call me Augusto Cury and not candidate.
Because this 'candidate' thing is very depersonalized and we have to realize that this is a Brazil that needs to be embraced appropriately.
When I did the debate on Jornal Nacional, the journalist touched on the subject of drones.
- For
About: implement a public security plan
I have a whole elephant as a security project.
And she grabbed the tail and started talking insistently.
It seems she had dronophobia, right?
In order for us to have security, and security for women, I will give you some data here.
Do you have any idea how many women pay more interest than men?
No, but I will tell you.
4% less than men for the same jobs, with the same qualifications.
This is another curiosity.
Number 3, 4% of women see themselves as beautiful because it is an unprecedented beauty dictatorship and self-esteem is the oxygen of mental health.
And number 4, do you know how often a woman dies in the world as a victim of femicide?
Every 10 minutes.
And in Brazil, every 5 or 6 hours.
- For
About: implement integrated alert and monitoring systems for the protection of women
Women need to be protected, but there cannot be protection if we do not have an adequate ecosystem.
- For
About: treinar e equipar forças policiais
We have about 15 thousand members in the Federal Police and I have had the opportunity several times to train them for free.
The Brazilian Federal Police, in my opinion, is one of the best federal police forces in the world, even more than the FBI, which has 38 thousand members just to deal with internal federal crimes.
- For
About: strengthen and train police forces and expand prison infrastructure
Second, we need to train and equip the Federal Police, including integrating them with the Military Police, with which we have about 410 thousand military police officers in Brazil.
- For
About: strengthen and train police forces and expand prison infrastructure
And we must also integrate with the Civil Police and also strengthen the Municipal Guard.
- For
About: value and professionalize police forces (Federal, Military and Civil)
If we have a whole integrated ecosystem... worked on, trained, with the best technology, including better salaries, because many police officers put their lives at risk with low pay.
- Neutral
About: strengthen the structure of the Ministry of Justice to confront organized crime
Then we will see that organized crime is a problem, but the disorganized State can be a much bigger problem.
- For
About: value and professionalize police forces (Federal, Military and Civil)
If we integrate the police, train them, equip them and value them, certainly women, and not only women, more than 210 million Brazilians will truly be protected.
- Neutral
About: combat violence against women
Despite candidate Augusto Cury having given me the data, today it is six women, it is four women killed every day in Brazil.
- Neutral
About: reduzir a violência sexual contra mulheres
Every six minutes, a woman or a child is raped in our country.
- Neutral
About: combat violence against women
This is a pandemic of violence against women.
About: combat violence against women
Machismo kills and it must end.
About: reduzir a desigualdade salarial entre gêneros e raças
And it is structured in this capitalist system that... also exploits women and is based on oppression, on gender oppression, on racial oppression, because besides women receiving about 23% less than men, and black women receiving roughly 53% less than men, the debate on violence... to end violence against women is not only a moral debate, it is not only a question of concept, it is an economic debate.
About: garantir moradia às mulheres em situação de violência
It is necessary to guarantee housing so that women, so that we women, do not have to live with our attackers.
About: increase the minimum wage by 100%
It is necessary to guarantee income, and that is why we have advocated a 100% increase of the minimum wage, so that women do not depend financially on their attackers.
About: maintain policies that expand public services
It is necessary to guarantee daycare, it is necessary to guarantee communal laundries, it is necessary... It is necessary to guarantee subsidized restaurants, because that indeed guarantees the emancipation of women in our country.
About: criminalizar manifestações de misoginia e responsabilizar plataformas digitais
And it is necessary to criminalize all misogyny that spreads hatred, that spreads the idea that we women are inferior to men, including holding digital platforms accountable that ensure this hatred is propagated.
About: responsabilizar plataformas digitais por conteúdo misógino
Because when it suits them, platforms take pages down, but these misogynistic... sexist groups, which even incite rape, violence against women, remain free, gaining followers and views, and these platforms also need to be held accountable.
About: combat violence against women and strengthen victim protection
And this is our debate, a women's candidacy to end femicide, to end violence against women in Brazil.
- For
About: ensure uninterrupted assistance to victims of domestic violence and acts of misogyny
Women, in fact, must be protected in the broadest aspects.
because they represent the gold of humanity.
I live among women, my wife and my three daughters.
And I try to run my household, but they boss me around frequently and with much affection.
I want to say the following, look, we won't succeed without having.
- For
About: promover educação que valorize as mulheres
An education that values women as unique and unrepeatable human beings.
- Neutral
About: protect children and adolescents against sexual abuse by adults
Number two, we must also be aware that every 45 seconds a child suffers child maltreatment and sexual abuse.
- For
About: instituir avaliação médica e psicológica anual para crianças de 0 a 12 anos
Therefore, there in Congress, Samara, and you are right that this is indeed a form of violence, there in Congress there is a bill, the Augusto Cury Bill, the first of its kind in the world, because I proposed this law.
- For
About: instituir avaliação médica e psicológica anual para crianças de 0 a 12 anos
where every child born on Brazilian territory from 0 to 12 years old will be examined by a doctor and by a psychologist.
- For
About: instituir avaliação médica e psicológica anual para crianças de 0 a 12 anos
Once a year, therefore, to prevent sexual predators.
- For
About: instituir avaliação médica e psicológica anual para crianças de 0 a 12 anos
Because one minute of sexual abuse can create a traumatic—or 'killer'—window that imprisons the human mind for life.
- For
About: garantir proteção às mulheres e seus filhos durante o governo
Women, you will be protected and your children as well under the Augusto Cury government.
Rogério Vilela
So let's go now, Zema asks Samara about education.
- For
About: expand access to education for young people and invest in training
Samara, one of the projects that made me most proud was Trilhas de Futuro.
- For
About: expand access to education for young people and invest in training
We managed to train more than 150,000 young people in technical vocational courses.
- For
About: incluir ensino técnico e profissionalizante no ensino público (novo ensino médio)
Now I saw in your government program that you are against the new high school.
which includes technical vocational education in public schooling.
- For
About: estabelecer parcerias público-privadas na educação
And you are against partnerships with private schools, which is exactly what we did in Minas Gerais.
So with you, this type of program, which today has already benefited 150,000 young people from Minas, would end.
Or not?
About: garantir educação pública, gratuita e não mercantilizada
We defend education as a right and not as a commodity.
And that's exactly it.
- Against
About: estabelecer parcerias público-privadas na educação
Public-private partnerships, despite coming with the slogan that they will increase the quality of education in our country, in reality prioritize profit, selling education.
- Against
About: estabelecer parcerias público-privadas na educação
So these are partnerships that present themselves as beneficial to the population, but that, in fact... bring the private sector in to profit from education.
About: guarantee equitable access to public education
And we defend public education,
Desconhecido
free,
About: expand and fund public education at all levels
of quality at all levels, whether it be early childhood — and I am the mother of two boys, two children — and universal access to early childhood education, there must be increased investment in basic education, in primary and secondary education, and free access to university and technical education, and this does not require public-private partnerships.
About: expand and fund public education at all levels
It is not necessary to have private companies if there is public investment.
About: expand and fund public education at all levels
And we defend more investment in education.
About: destinar 10% do PIB para a educação pública
We advocate 10% of GDP for education.
- Neutral
About: expand and fund public education at all levels
And today, in Brazil's budget, less than 4% is allocated to education.
It makes no sense at all for Brazil.
For a country that wants to develop, saying it will invest 4% in education makes no sense, because that means not investing in technology, not investing in science.
- Against
About: privatize state schools
So privatizing schools, as was done in Minas Gerais, privatizing 95 schools, goes against what we have defended as liberating education, as quality education, even disrespecting the... the academic community that opposed the privatizations of schools in Minas Gerais and in other states as well.
- Against
About: privatize state schools
An authoritarian decision by the government to be able to put the private sector inside the schools.
Our Brazilian people fought hard for school to be public, free, high-quality, and universal.
Desconhecido
Two minutes for rebuttal.
- For
About: guarantee family choice and access to better schools for talented students
Well, it seems to me that those who operate along that line do not like to have any alternatives.
- For
About: guarantee family choice and access to better schools for talented students
As governor, I wanted to give the student and the families of Minas the option to choose.
There are state technical-professional schools and there are also technical-professional schools from the private sector.
- For
About: introduzir concorrência e comparação entre modelos educacionais
There is nothing better to improve people than competition, than comparison.
- Against
About: unificar currículo e padronizar a educação
Now, what many people want is pasteurization.
It is to unify everything, to have no differentiation in order to indoctrinate and dictate.
Here nobody can think differently.
This, folks, was done in the Soviet Union, is done today in North Korea, is done in Cuba, in countries that, in my opinion, never deserved our admiration.
It is from diversity.
that different ideas emerge.
It is from diversity that talents emerge.
It is from diversity that humanity prospers.
And those who have this left-wing vision want everything the same, standardized, as if education were an assembly line.
And that's why Brazil today has one of the worst educations in the world.
- For
About: incluir ensino técnico e parcerias público-privadas na educação
And what I did in Minas improved education.
Despite the changes, Minas was the state where literacy advanced the most in 2024 and where the IDEB grew year after year.
So the indicators show that, instead of worsening, it improved.
Reality, often, is the opposite of what crazy theory claims out there.
Rogério Vilela
So now, let's go to Samara's rejoinder.
Exactly.
- Against
About: privatize state schools
The alternative is not to privatize education.
About: expand and fund public education at all levels
The alternative is to increase investments in education.
And that is to guarantee not only management, but to guarantee pedagogy, to guarantee didactics, to guarantee professional recognition.
- Against
About: estabelecer parcerias público-privadas na educação
Because if a company runs education, runs a school as a product, what it wants is profit and not quality in teaching.
About: maintain and increase funding for public education
So our proposal is exactly that: to ensure that governments — and I'm speaking in the capacity of the government of Minas Gerais — must guarantee more investment in education and not turn education into a product for the private sector to profit from.
That is exactly what we have been saying.
About: encourage community participation in school decisions
And more than that, that we call... education workers, that we call the civilian population, that we call the families, including those who are in public schools, and I am the mother of public school students, I studied my entire life in public schools.
to participate in decisions, to be able to be heard, including by the government.
Because when we talk, including, about these decisions that should not be monocratic, more than just bringing in other parliamentarians, it is about calling the people to participate in all decisions.
This applies to the academic community, it applies to civil society, it applies to the fathers and mothers who are normally not heard in these decisions.
- Against
About: privatize state schools
Privatizing education is the line of those who want to sell education.
- Against
About: privatize state schools
including reducing access, because to the extent that these companies want to profit, as has been the case in several states, the quality of teaching decreases, labor relations become precarious, the guarantee of minimum wage floors, the guarantee of professional recognition diminishes.
About: expand and fund public education at all levels
So we continue to defend a public, free, quality and universal education with popular participation.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you very much to all the candidates of this first block.
Rogério Vilela
So it ends now, right, Lênin?
Rogério Vilela
What do the people at home have to do now, if they haven't done it yet?
Rogério Vilela
That's it, you subscribe to the channel.
Rogério Vilela
First you give it a like, okay?
Rogério Vilela
Then you subscribe to the channel, become a member, and take the link to this live and share it with your friend, with your neighbor, right?
Rogério Vilela
With the people who need to be here watching.
Rogério Vilela
Stay up to date.
Rogério Vilela
I think this debate is high-level.
Rogério Vilela
People respecting the time, very good questions and answers.
Rogério Vilela
And the second block is going to heat up, because that's with journalists.
Rogério Vilela
So, here's the thing, we're going to a break now, the aides come here, exchange ideas with the candidates and everything else.
Rogério Vilela
It's a short break and while they are talking with the candidates, we go to the Metrópolis studio with Marília Ribeiro.
Rogério Vilela
We'll be right back.
Rogério Vilela
Stay tuned.
Desconhecido
16 days until the first round of the elections which takes place on October 4.
Desconhecido
And who will bring all the details and the summary of what happened in this first block is reporter Samuel Pancher, who is directly from the studio where this presidential debate is taking place, which features Augusto Cury, also Romeu Zema and finally Samara Martins, who answered various questions.
Desconhecido
We already have Sam to bring the main information and details of this first block.
Desconhecido
Sam, are you with me?
Desconhecido
Good evening to you again.
Desconhecido
Please, give a summary of this first block, please.
Desconhecido
Hi, Maria.
Desconhecido
That's it.
Desconhecido
We had this first block of direct questions between the candidates.
Desconhecido
And now, I'm going to show you the scene here, which I think is quite interesting for us to see.
Desconhecido
So, we're in this break for the candidates to have some water and talk with their aides.
Desconhecido
And here we see, we'll keep our distance, respect their space, but they're here, we see Zema talking with his aides.
Desconhecido
Samara stepped out just now.
Desconhecido
And Augusto Cury is there too, had a quick chat with his aides and is waiting for the break to end.
Desconhecido
But now I'm going to talk, you know with whom?
Desconhecido
Because it's not just me from Metrópolis here.
Desconhecido
We're with Matheus Leitão, our columnist, Jéssica Bernardo, reporter here in São Paulo, and Ramiro Bitts, our columnist, who will talk a little more about how they assessed this first block.
Desconhecido
Let's talk to Matheus.
Desconhecido
Matheus, what's up?
Desconhecido
So, apparently, we had a first block of high quality, right?
Desconhecido
Look, it was calm, right?
Desconhecido
Actually, there was a bigger clash between Romeu Zema and Samara, but there was also a lot that seemed to me like imitation.
Desconhecido
Augusto Cury saying, 'hurt whom it may,' in the case of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal), right?
Desconhecido
Zema also began his speech by talking about the crisis in the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) and it turned out that all the candidates went through that.
Desconhecido
So, the image remains once again that the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) continues
Desconhecido
to set the agenda for the 2026 election.
Desconhecido
I'm going to talk to Jéssica.
Desconhecido
Now Jéssica has a dual mission here.
Desconhecido
She's a reporter, a journalist, she's here doing her work, which she does very well, but she's also part of the panel evaluating rights of reply.
Desconhecido
And so far, zero requests, right, Jéssica?
Desconhecido
So, what does that indicate?
Desconhecido
For now, zero requests.
Desconhecido
Actually, my role is more to assist there to see if anyone asks, because the one who actually decides is the lawyer who is here with us, who is a specialist in electoral law.
Desconhecido
So far it was quite calm.
Desconhecido
And that's it, right?
Desconhecido
I think this debate here, I imagined that perhaps at some point there might be a request for a reply during the harsher clashes between Zema and Samara, but it was quite calm, so there was nothing of that sort.
Desconhecido
I think it drew attention.
Desconhecido
just, I was talking here with the guys, one moment caught my attention a lot: Cury, at various points, questions Samara, 'do you have the data on that?'
Desconhecido
Do you know how much more interest women pay than men?
Desconhecido
anyway, he asks several questions, in an attempt, it seems to me, to show that he has the data on hand, when she, in fact, would not.
Desconhecido
And then she answers now in the segment about women, with several data points, and says, 'although the candidate brought me some data here, I'll mention others.'
Desconhecido
So, in a clash there, in an attempt, it seemed to me, on his part, to show that he was more qualified than her, and she, in the response, to show that she was just as qualified as he was.
Desconhecido
That's what I understood from that moment, but without any request for a right of reply so far.
Desconhecido
Let's talk to Ramiro, who is also here following along, will ask a question in the next block, just like me.
Desconhecido
Ramiro, so, your assessment of this first block, anyway, is it contributing in some way, do you think, to the voter's decision?
Desconhecido
I think so, I think it's a debate that is more focused on the candidates' ideas, I think the clashes between them are less focused on that more... belligerent thing, that we saw in other debates.
Desconhecido
I find the colleagues' points interesting and Samara's participation important, right?
Desconhecido
Even that issue of bringing the discussion about women's safety, she was the one who brought it up.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: use drones with sirens to respond to reports of violence against women
Guys from the USPF, we've seen Augusto Cury's proposals about drones for violence against women more than once, we've seen it several times.
Desconhecido
Now, Samara's proposals, we haven't seen them yet.
Desconhecido
So, I think that's an interesting differentiator of this debate.
Desconhecido
Matheus, I think you want to speak there.
Desconhecido
Let's hear Matheus Leitão here.
Desconhecido
So, Matheus, what do you want to add?
Desconhecido
It's funny that Samara, at a certain moment, spoke about his idea of using drones against crimes, against women.
Desconhecido
And she said... An idea that went viral on social networks, became, like, a meme.
Desconhecido
Exactly.
Desconhecido
And she said clearly, the only woman here in the debate, said, 'look, that's totally insufficient to me.'
Desconhecido
So, it was a response that I thought was one of the strongest in the first block.
Desconhecido
That's it Marília, we continue here waiting, let's peek just a little, Samara who had stepped out earlier is talking with her aides here, we'll return shortly then to the debate, Zema there and Cury as well, so I'll get back to you in the studio, because the debate will resume shortly, keep following here on the Metrópolis channel and on Inteligência Limitada.
Desconhecido
Marília.
Desconhecido
That's it, Samuel Pancher, with our entire team that is there in São Paulo following this debate.
Desconhecido
there are 16 days until the first round, which takes place on October 4.
Desconhecido
So our journalists brought the highlights, mainly focused on public security, but the focus in fact remained... on the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal).
Desconhecido
and it is precisely this theme that was widely discussed, especially this week, because of the historic session we had in the plenary of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) on September 15, 2026, which convened to discuss whether Minister Alexandre de Moraes would be investigated for ties with the former banker Daniel Vorcaro, but it ended up not happening.
Desconhecido
But now we go to the second block of our debate with questions... from journalists to the candidates for the Presidency of the Republic.
Desconhecido
And I hand back our connection to Vilela, directly from São Paulo, with the candidates for the Presidency of the Republic.
Desconhecido
It's with you, Vilela.
Rogério Vilela
We're back, we're back.
Rogério Vilela
We're here back in the studio, so, earthlings (male and female), now the journalism team from Portal Metrópolis takes the stage.
Rogério Vilela
and here no one chooses anything, it's all by draw.
Rogério Vilela
The order of participation of the candidates in this block was also pre-determined.
Rogério Vilela
We draw the journalist who asks, the candidate who answers and the theme of the moment.
Rogério Vilela
The journalist has one minute to formulate the question, the selected candidate receives a bank of four minutes to listen and divide between the answer and the rejoinder.
Rogério Vilela
And along the way, the journalist still has 30 seconds for a reply.
Rogério Vilela
The trap is the same as the previous block.
Rogério Vilela
Whoever overindulges in their response pays the price when it's time to react.
Rogério Vilela
The order of the questions will be like this, huh?
Rogério Vilela
Sam Pancher, did I pronounce your last name correctly?
Rogério Vilela
I hope so, Sam.
Rogério Vilela
I'll just call you Sam, right?
Rogério Vilela
Question for Samara about the economy.
Rogério Vilela
Let's go.
Desconhecido
And they attended the debate, we regret the absences.
Desconhecido
And my question is for candidate Samara Martins.
Desconhecido
Samara, good evening.
- Against
Desconhecido
About: suspender o pagamento do serviço da dívida por meio de auditoria popular
Madam, you treat debt service as a 'banker stipend' that can be interrupted with a simple popular audit of the public debt, which you call for in your government plan.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: increase the minimum wage by 100%
And this resource, in your government plan, would also be used to fund a 100% increase in the minimum wage.
- Against
Desconhecido
About: suspender o pagamento do serviço da dívida por meio de auditoria popular
My question is, how would Brazil... pay public servants, social security, the SUS and the minimum wage itself doubled, with the suspension of debt service, without access to domestic and external credit, an obvious consequence of this action, and with the immediate risk of capital flight,
Desconhecido
devaluation
- Against
Desconhecido
About: suspender o pagamento do serviço da dívida por meio de auditoria popular
of the real and inflation, inflation in this case, which would affect mainly the poorest.
Very good question, because it's exactly one of the centralities of our program.
About: conduct a Citizen Audit of the Debt with public participation
We have defended the citizens' audit of the debt and this is a constitutional prerogative, indeed to guarantee the audit of the public debt.
About: conduct a Citizen Audit of the Debt with public participation
We, in fact, could have already done it, because it reached presidential sanction in 2016 and was vetoed by President Dilma, so we could have already done it.
- Neutral
About: conduct a Citizen Audit of the Debt with public participation
There have already been experiences in the world of conducting an audit in Ecuador, including in 2008. The debt audit was carried out and they reduced the debt by 70% in Brazil, but for those watching to understand.
- Neutral
About: conduct a Citizen Audit of the Debt with public participation
Today, 42% of our budget is allocated to the payment of interest and amortizations of the public debt, so it's not even exactly about the debt, which is a debt, in fact, that the Citizens' Debt Audit movement has presented as illegal, because you take on debt to improve living conditions in your home or even in a country, but today that debt serves to take money away.
from social areas.
- Against
About: maintain the fiscal framework
And that's why, today, there is a spending cap, a fiscal framework, which limits the increase of investments in health, education, housing, in all social areas, including the minimum wage.
- Neutral
About: condicionar aumento do salário mínimo ao pagamento da dívida pública
Today, the minimum wage can only increase by 2.5% in order to save to pay the public debt in our country.
About: conduct a Citizen Audit of the Debt with public participation
So, we consider the audit and the suspension of the payment of the public debt as central to the economy of our country.
About: Increase production of social housing
Because by stopping paying that R$1.8 trillion, we could solve the housing issue, because we did a basic calculation and it would be enough to solve it.
the construction of 16 million housing units in one year.
- Neutral
About: reduzir o déficit habitacional
and the housing deficit, that the people without homes in Brazil is 6 million people, so you could solve that problem, and many other problems.
And saying, then, that there would be capital flight and
etc.,
About: suspend payment of the public debt
we do not believe that this exists, because we, Brazil, are exactly this producer of all the raw materials of the world.
We do not have just one natural resource.
Brazil is central, moreover, for several other countries that trade with Brazil.
About: strengthen the role of the State in the economy
And we, moreover, argue that we should have control over the entire production chain, that we should have control over the entire world economy.
About: strengthen the role of the State in the economy
It's state control of the economy.
Rogério Vilela
All right, Sam.
Rogério Vilela
30 seconds for comments.
Desconhecido
Thank you, Vilela.
- For
Desconhecido
About: preservar o sistema de livre mercado
But, candidate, your answer has little basis in reality, because we live in a world... dominated by the free market, by capitalism.
- For
Desconhecido
About: preservar o sistema de livre mercado
And as much as that decision might have... temporary benefits domestically, Brazil is not isolated from the world.
- For
Desconhecido
About: preservar o sistema de livre mercado
Brazil is in a global free-market system, countries trade with one another and people are not required to keep capital here if a measure of that kind is taken.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: establish capital controls
So, to try to clarify a bit more for the voter, how would you prevent capital flight and avoid causing unemployment and inflation, which is a consequence that, in today's monetary system... in the capitalist system, would happen in practice.
Desconhecido
It's almost a mathematical question.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: establish capital controls
How would you prevent that from happening with your plan?
About: dismantle capitalist structures and seek socialist alternatives
In fact, our program is exactly about confronting capitalism.
And we consider that this is not the only possible society in the world.
About: implementar uma sociedade socialista
We advocate a socialist society.
About: socializar as riquezas
And it's about socializing that wealth.
Today capitalism does exactly that.
Profit is the main priority; monopolies, including those of big corporations, are the main priority.
About: socializar os meios de produção
We advocate socializing the means of production so that everyone has something to eat, so that everyone has somewhere to live.
It's precisely by confronting it.
- Ambiguous
About: raise the minimum wage above inflation according to the new fiscal rule
People often say that, but then if you raise the minimum wage by 100%, everything will increase and inflation will rise.
About: strengthen the role of the State in the economy
It's a control over the entire production chain, from production, including investing in family farming, ensuring control over distribution, over the storage of food in our country, because that's what's happening today.
For people to eat, it is becoming increasingly expensive and wages haven't even risen.
And also, we are an extremely rich country, the tenth-largest economy in the world, and in Latin America we are one of the countries that has some of the lowest wages
on the continent.
So we are the most exploited workers on the continent, because of the capitalist logic that business profits are more important than life.
About: freeze food prices
So we can even manage... everything in our country to create jobs, to control food prices, lower and freeze food prices so that our people can eat, even in this country that produces so much and our people do not eat.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you, Samara.
Rogério Vilela
Now let's go with Matheus Leitão asking Cury about corruption.
Rogério Vilela
One minute for the question, Matheus.
Desconhecido
Good evening, everyone.
Desconhecido
Good evening to candidate Augusto Cury.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
Candidate, do you propose using artificial intelligence?
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
to identify fraud, waste and even corruption.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: estabelecer mecanismos de contestação para decisões produzidas por algoritmos
Who would control the criteria of those systems and how could a citizen contest an accusation produced by an algorithm?
Desconhecido
I spoke with some of the most important jurists in Brazil and they say that this proposal of yours can even be legally valid.
Thank you very much for the question.
- For
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
Look, we have to use the best technologies.
- For
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
To prevent crime, organized crime, the crime of corruption.
Look, we had a 2 billion hole at the INSS.
It's absurd.
Petrolão, 42 billion.
Banco Master, more than 50 billion.
Corruption is epidemic in Brazil.
- For
About: create transparency mechanisms to combat corruption
And it's epidemic because we don't have a control system.
We have to verify in an adequate and swift manner.
- For
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
all public procurements; we also have to have a whole system to curb corrupt people, to use facial recognition so we can analyze those who take part in the bids.
- For
About: conduct audits and suspend irregular contracts in public administration
and we also have to fully and quickly analyze the processes for government purchases.
If we do not use technology, what will happen is that we will be held hostage by people who will use shady systems under a circle of friends that will always defraud the Brazilian nation.
It's almost unbelievable that one government comes in and another goes out.
And Brazil continues this epidemic of corruption.
- For
About: investigate and hold politicians accountable for corruption
And the two responsible for the biggest corruptions at present are not here, Flávio Bolsonaro and Lula da Silva.
- For
About: combat oligarchic families and local clientelism
And we have to end this bolsopetismo, or lulapetismo, or lulabolsismo, because these two families do not own Brazil.
Who are they?
Brazil belongs to 210 million Brazilians.
- For
About: estabelecer processos de controle e responsabilidade fiscal
We have to have processes, we have to have a rigorous analysis, we have to have fiscal responsibility.
This is also a form of corruption.
Samara spoke here about doubling the minimum wage that bankers benefit excessively from.
- Against
About: adotar políticas fiscais expansionistas
She doesn't understand that Lula, who has a socialist slant... he is fiscally irresponsible and, consequently, leads to a sudden rise in the Selic rate of 14% plus 4% or 5% of spread, making families, at minimum, pay 1.5%, 2%, 3% per month.
Compound interest, you sometimes have 30%, 40% or 50%.
This suffocates families.
There are more than 40 million families who for 10 years have not been able to get out of the debt hole because of this fiscal shortfall we have been creating.
- For
About: combater a irresponsabilidade fiscal como forma de corrupção
So there is the epidemic corruption of those who are irresponsible and harm Brazil, but also the fiscal irresponsibility that has been driving Brazil to collapse.
Rogério Vilela
Let's go, 30 seconds for comments, Matheus.
Desconhecido
You talked and talked and didn't answer my question, candidate.
Desconhecido
I'm going to repeat it.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: estabelecer mecanismos de contestação para decisões produzidas por algoritmos
How could a citizen contest an accusation produced by an algorithm?
Desconhecido
The jurists I spoke to say that this can be legally valid.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: evitar substituição de investigações humanas por IA
And does your project take jobs away from, for example, federal police officers and prosecutors from the MPF?
I think you didn't understand my point.
- For
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
See, we have to use the most notable technologies to be able to curb
organized crime and also curb corruption.
- For
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
Because if we do not use technologies like AI and also audits by leaders, whether tax auditors, whether from the MPF, whether leaders of society, so that we can carry out an adequate audit, corruption will always occur.
- For
About: auditar algoritmos usados para controle e investigação
Would you want not to use technology to... to prevent organized crime? There are already serious studies that it is possible to use the algorithm while at the same time auditing the algorithm itself.
- For
About: alterar a Constituição para permitir uso de tecnologias de controle
Now, if that depends on a change to the Constitution, let's do it.
But without a doubt, if we do not use the best technologies, we will continue watching corruption be epidemic in Brazil.
It is irresponsible not to use technologies for that.
Desconhecido
Thank you, Cury.
Desconhecido
Now let's go to Ramiro, who asks Zema about security.
Desconhecido
Good evening, candidates.
Desconhecido
Good evening, Zema.
Desconhecido
I'll ask about security, then.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
Public security experts talk about the use of body cameras, which would be good to curb both abuse and the power of the police force, and to provide security to the officers themselves... In Minas Gerais, you adopted body cameras in the Military Police, but less than 5% of the force had access; there are more than 40 thousand military police officers in Minas Gerais.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
Are you in favor of using body cameras or did you adopt the policy in Minas just to be able to say you have it?
- For
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
Ramiro, I am in favor... of using body cameras.
It can mean, for the police officer, including protection of his profession, showing that he acted appropriately.
- Ambiguous
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
Now, the fact that the police officer does not view it favorably concerns privacy.
During working hours... You're a journalist, you probably have someone beside you; sometimes you comment about something from your family, something about a friend of yours, and that camera runs all the time.
- Neutral
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
So the officer feels very uncomfortable; he goes to the bathroom, the camera is filming.
- For
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
So it's something we still... We need to have more agile technology to be able to resolve this.
Now, this camera issue is one of the public security items.
- For
About: reduce homicides and combat organized crime
What we need in Brazil to solve the slaughter, 40 thousand homicides or more per year, is to combat organized crime.
- For
About: reoccupy territories dominated by criminal factions
To retake the territories that are controlled by organized crime.
60 million Brazilians live in controlled areas.
That is the big problem.
- For
About: classify criminal factions as terrorist organizations and increase penalties
I will classify the factions, the criminal organizations, as terrorist groups.
- For
About: mobilize all federal institutions to combat organized crime
And I will put the full apparatus of the State against these criminals who today extort, who today... charge more for the internet, for water, for energy, compromising the lives, as I said, of 60 million Brazilians.
- For
About: reduce the age of criminal responsibility for certain crimes
I want to review the age of criminal responsibility, the same thing.
If someone is an adult to commit a crime, he will be an adult when it comes time to serve the sentence as well.
- For
About: revogar benefícios prisionais como saidinha e visita íntima
I also want to end the benefits that criminals have today, furloughs, intimate visits, etc.
- For
About: increase sentences and keep violent criminals imprisoned
We need to treat criminals as criminals and not as victims of society, as has been happening in Brazil.
And I will put the full force of the State against this organized crime.
I'm talking about the Armed Forces, Federal Police, Federal Revenue Service.
COAF, ABIN,
etc.,
- For
About: reduce homicides and violence
and we're going to achieve a reduction like nothing seen before.
Today, in Brazil, those 40 thousand homicides mean that every day a large airplane crashes here.
And are we just going to sit and watch?
It seems we've started to normalize it.
The Chamber is a minor detail.
What we need is the force of the State against criminals.
Desconhecido
Comments, Ramiro?
Desconhecido
Candidate, what I'd like to highlight, not necessarily regarding police privacy, but also regarding the number of cameras.
Desconhecido
You bought body cameras, but not for all the police officers of Minas Gerais.
Desconhecido
I wanted to understand why this can be effective.
Desconhecido
whether this is effective, if not all police officers have access to them, and how legislation on the use of body cameras, a technology, can be effective without them recording at all times.
We made a purchase for the purpose of experimenting, for the purpose of analysis, to buy.
- Neutral
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
40 thousand cameras in a state that I assumed didn't even have money to pay the payroll would be reckless.
- For
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
And I decided with the police commander that we will implement here a number X of body cameras for officers; we'll evaluate.
- For
About: implement use of body cameras for police officers
Adjust, see if this technology meets needs, you don't need to buy and cover 100%.
And, to this day, it's being evaluated for various operations; this camera is already being used.
When the officer has to carry out warrants,
etc.,
- For
About: use body cameras in police operations
when he knows he'll be there X hours in an operation, the camera is used and works very well.
- For
About: adotar modelo viável nacional para câmeras corporais
Now, we need to advance across all of Brazil to find a viable model.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you, Zema.
Rogério Vilela
Thanks to the journalists.
Rogério Vilela
So, we're concluding the second block.
Rogério Vilela
There's also a short break now for the advisers to speak with them.
Rogério Vilela
And we're returning to the Metrópolis studio with Marília.
Rogério Vilela
Ribeiro — the third block is going to be on fire.
Desconhecido
See you later.
Desconhecido
That's it, Vilela.
Desconhecido
Thank you very much.
Desconhecido
We continue then here from our Metrópolis studio in Brasília.
Desconhecido
Remember, we have our debate of the candidates for the Presidency of the Republic.
Desconhecido
Today we have, then, Augusto Cury, Romeu Zema and Samara Martins.
Desconhecido
All were invited.
Desconhecido
President Lula and Flávio Bolsonaro were invited, but did not respond to this invitation.
Desconhecido
Ronaldo Caiado and also Renan Santos had confirmed, but at the last minute they ended up canceling.
Desconhecido
And now we have just followed the second block of the debate, where we had questions from journalists.
Desconhecido
for the candidates to the Palácio do Planalto.
Desconhecido
And who will bring the details of how those answers went, whether the candidates in fact gave the answers the journalists wanted, is our reporter Samuel Pancha, who is there in São Paulo covering on site, right?
Desconhecido
Sam, always on the front lines.
Desconhecido
Please bring your observations and also a brief summary of what happened in this second block of the presidential debate.
Desconhecido
That's it, Marília.
Desconhecido
Pleasure to speak with you again.
Desconhecido
So, this block was dedicated to the journalists' questions to the candidates.
Desconhecido
I asked candidate Samara Martins, Matheus Leitão asked candidate Augusto Cury and Ramiro Brits asked candidate Romeu Zema.
Desconhecido
Topics were also determined by random draw.
Desconhecido
So, the candidates were able to lay out their answers a bit more there.
Desconhecido
We were able to have a reply there to probe a bit more, to better understand what they stand for to the voter.
Desconhecido
And now we're at this moment, another break in which the candidates talk with advisers, make their notes.
Desconhecido
Augusto Curipoquinho is alone there making his notes indeed.
Desconhecido
Romeu Zema and Samara Martins talking with... their advisers.
Desconhecido
But I'm going to talk here with the host of this event, who is Rogério Vilela, who has been doing many debates, right?
Desconhecido
But, anyway, this different format here, right?
Desconhecido
With several presidential candidates at the table.
Desconhecido
And, Vilela, how are you evaluating this gathering so far and how is this experience?
Rogério Vilela
It's because, for those who don't know, I receive the candidates, the guests at my house.
Rogério Vilela
My studio is in my house.
Rogério Vilela
I live upstairs.
Rogério Vilela
There is a completely separate entrance, it's in the basement of my house.
Rogério Vilela
So, when people go there, if a row breaks out there, it's in the basement of my house.
Rogério Vilela
My son is sleeping up there.
Rogério Vilela
So I'm calmer here, because it's far from home.
Rogério Vilela
But even so, there's that tension, right, beforehand, that anxiety.
Rogério Vilela
Once it actually starts, it becomes very easy, relaxed.
Rogério Vilela
You saw that it's been high-level so far, everyone respecting the time, except Sam.
Rogério Vilela
Sam exceeded his time.
Desconhecido
I apologize, I apologize.
Rogério Vilela
He's going to get a punishment there.
Rogério Vilela
So it's been very high-level.
Rogério Vilela
And the third block promises, because again there will be questions from one to another, and we'll see how it turns out, with the topics also already... Now the topic is free, in fact, in the third and final block.
Rogério Vilela
So let's see what comes out now.
Desconhecido
And now, we know this is the first experience, but it's certainly not the last, right?
Desconhecido
What remains as a lesson from this organization, in general, how was this whole process?
Desconhecido
We kind of participated together there, but anyway, it was a whole team mobilized for this.
Rogério Vilela
Man, it's that thing of knowing whether what we were imagining will work.
Rogério Vilela
So we imagine... replicating the studio, how the journalists' questions will work, there's a whole different dynamic.
Rogério Vilela
And all of this done for the first time, so far it has been the way we imagined, so I'm very happy.
Rogério Vilela
Because the problem is when you imagine something and it doesn't work out.
Rogério Vilela
Since some candidates—it's a curiosity for you—since some candidates canceled at the last minute, we even thought about changing a rule at the last minute, for you to know how the behind-the-scenes are; we thought about changing a last-minute rule, but all the candidates have to approve it.
Rogério Vilela
Since not everyone approved, we reverted to the initial rule, because it would become different, another format, and maybe in the next debate we'll put a different dynamic in the third block, which is more like what I do on my show, but with many candidates it's not possible to do.
Desconhecido
Should we free Virela here so he can return to his position, right?
Desconhecido
Anyway, he still has one more block to host.
Desconhecido
Show a little more of how it works, since we're showing behind-the-scenes, show something.
Desconhecido
So, where do the candidates see their time?
Desconhecido
It's here, see. So, here there's a clock under the camera.
Desconhecido
So, both Samara Martins, Augusto Cury and Romeu Zema monitor their own time here; they have the challenge of handling their time.
Desconhecido
And I'll go back to Marília Ribeiro, because it's about to start, see, the three at the table here.
Desconhecido
Next block: free-theme questions between them.
Desconhecido
Marília.
Desconhecido
Panxas live from São Paulo, from our studios, bringing then the
Desconhecido
behind-the-scenes
Desconhecido
of this debate between Metrópolis, G4, Inteligência Limitada, who joined together to bring these candidates to the Presidency of the Republic, so that you who are at home can decide your vote in the first round, October 4.
Desconhecido
And now we go back directly to our studios to continue following the third and last block of the debate.
Desconhecido
Let's go.
Rogério Vilela
We're back here with the third and final block.
Rogério Vilela
The most open moment of the night has arrived.
Rogério Vilela
Free theme: the candidate, within the pre-defined order of participation for this block, asks their question.
Rogério Vilela
We will have two rounds of questions, there is only one rule for this.
Rogério Vilela
A candidate cannot be chosen twice in a row.
Rogério Vilela
He can only be chosen... Again, after all the others have already answered at least one question in this block.
Rogério Vilela
The time works the same as in the previous blocks.
Rogério Vilela
One minute for the question, four for the minute bank for the answer and the surrejoinder.
Rogério Vilela
And one minute for a reply in the middle.
Rogério Vilela
Order of the candidates.
Rogério Vilela
will be for this round Zema, Cury and Samara.
Rogério Vilela
Zema was first again.
Rogério Vilela
Let's go.
Well, I wanted to ask Dr. Augusto Cury.
- Neutral
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
What did you think and how do you evaluate this decision by President Lula, 17 days before the election, to adjust the Bolsa Família, in an electoral period, where, it seems to me, he sees his chances of losing getting increasingly greater.
I would like to know your view on this measure that came out yesterday and was widely reported in the media.
Thank you, Zema, for the question.
- For
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
I want to take the opportunity to say that we will indeed use the highest technologies to curb corruption.
- For
About: require those under investigation to clarify doubts about their conduct
And the two specialists should be here answering.
Flávio Bolsonaro and Lula da Silva.
- Neutral
About: investigate meetings between authorities and investigated bankers
Because there is a promiscuity... with the bank of Vorcaro, and it seems they have no interest in solving that equation.
This is not going to replace, it could be some, the police, the diverse police forces, nor the various auditors.
- For
About: use technology and artificial intelligence to reduce waste and corruption in public spending
On the contrary, we will equip them to, for the first time, curb those corrupt people and the corruption that is epidemic in the Brazilian nation.
Making that very clear.
- Neutral
About: maintain Bolsa Família as an income transfer policy to combat hunger
Bolsa Família is an important program.
Mom and dad plus six children in just one room.
I know what the pain of hunger is.
The pain of hunger is something distressing.
And pain either builds us or destroys us.
Sinal trabalhada, she files herself away like a mental prison and can kidnap us.
- For
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
But to use it 17 days before to increase Bolsa Família, and why wasn't it increased before?
- For
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
And why didn't they give 30% before?
- For
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
Why not increase it to R$ 900?
Why increase it right before, you know?
- For
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
Two weeks before the election, it's using other people's pain to win a presidential seat, to return to a fourth term?
That is irresponsible.
When I was in the Rocinha favela, invited by the leaders, when I went up there, I said to them.
Look, it is irresponsible for a president to come here and use your pain to ask for votes.
I don't want to ask for votes, I want to hear your pain, because I also went through pain.
And we shed tears, me and them too.
- Against
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
Now, what Lula is doing is a campaign maneuver.
- For
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
People on Bolsa Família should have much more than R$ 90.00.
- For
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
In fact, they should have at least double that.
- Ambiguous
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
But not now, right on top of the election.
Respecting other people's pain is fundamental.
Those people who love power for power's sake, in fact, are not worthy of power.
I am not running because I love power; I need power, I don't even need power, nor the money of power.
I already have what politicians have never dreamed of having, and I say that with great humility.
But, unfortunately, this measure is more... adding flavor and color to show that Lula da Silva loves power far more than Brazilian society.
Desconhecido
Zema, two minutes for the reply.
That's right.
- For
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
We are seeing a political stunt, a populism, a demagogy that is very typical of Lula.
- Neutral
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
But I know that Bolsa Família is extremely important.
- For
About: increase the Bolsa Família benefit amount
I want it at a higher amount for those people who care for children, the elderly or people with disabilities and who today do not receive an adequate sum.
- For
About: integrate Bolsa Família with training and credit for social promotion
And I also want many more exit doors than entry doors.
- For
About: condicionar benefícios do Bolsa Família à conclusão escolar
Someone who receives Bolsa Família... I, as president, if they have not finished elementary education, they will have to finish it.
If they have not finished high school, they will also have to do so.
To get a better job, a more dignified placement.
This will be necessary, except in the cases of people who care for others, as I said.
- For
About: encourage formalization of employment through rewards to formally employed workers
And, in addition, I will still give R$ 5,000.
for each person who leaves Bolsa Família and gets a formal job with a signed work card.
They cease to be a burden on the State and become a taxpayer, since they will be working and paying their contributions.
So what I want is to improve the life of Brazilians.
And I have already proven that this is possible.
- For
About: create formal jobs
During my administration in Minas Gerais, we created more than one million jobs with a signed work card.
Minas Gerais, in the past, had always been a state of emigrants, miners going all over Brazil.
During my administration, the opposite happened.
Brazilians moving to Minas.
And where do people go?
- For
About: improve public security
Where there is opportunity, where there is public security, which is what we provided.
Desconhecido
Cury, finish your answer.
Zema, I have a project that... With great respect for you, it is more important and much more consistent.
- For
About: manter o Bolsa Família por período de transição para beneficiários que se formalizem
Those who sign the work card and have Bolsa Família will not lose it, at least for a certain time.
Those who start a microenterprise or also open an MEI will not lose
their Bolsa Família, at least for a certain time.
It is completely undignified to live on 600 reais, now with 690, plus 150 reais per child.
And fear is an instrument of control, it always has been.
Fear is an instrument of control.
And the fear of losing Bolsa Família makes many people... reluctant to understand this thesis, those who come without risk triumph without glory.
I have the right, they have the right, those who have Bolsa Família, to have a house, to have a car, to take vacations, to have quality of life.
So, I want to look you in the eyes: if you sign the work card.
for a certain time, a significant time for you to adapt, you will not lose Bolsa Família.
- For
About: expand access to capital and credit for companies
Open a microenterprise and we will encourage you with cheap interest rates, from 4% to 6%.
- For
About: implement public work fronts to integrate beneficiaries into the labor market
Thus, we will put about 10 to 15 million people into the labor market, because there are about 19 to 20 million families with Bolsa Família.
We will embrace them like you have never been embraced.
Rogério Vilela
Since you're holding the microphone, Cury, go ahead and direct a question to one of the two candidates.
Well, I want to ask Samara.
You spoke about education, Samara.
Education, to me, is very dear.
We have to change the curricular matrix.
We cannot have a Cartesian, rationalist education.
We must have an education that provokes the art of questioning, that challenges the art of thinking and also praises the art of participating.
Thus, you create an environment inside the classroom where there is neuroinclusion, because there are 2.4 million... people who have autism and are not included.
You put them in, but you don't embrace them.
Now, do you intend to revamp the curricula or not?
Do you also plan to revamp high school or not?
About: implement full-time schooling and reform the curriculum to value teachers
We defend, including, comprehensive education and that it have this character of... Making people think.
As Paulo Freire used to say, education doesn't change the world, it changes people and people change the world.
And it is from this perspective that we understand education.
It needs to be a critical education.
About: reconhecer e ampliar educação infantil como processo de desenvolvimento
And this is valid in the sense of understanding education in an integral way, which applies to early childhood education, because today early childhood education is thought of as... a storage place for children and not already as a process of developing human beings, but also to have more investment in education.
fundamental in elementary and high school education and that it be integrated and that it have, indeed, this space.
Not for people to become entrepreneurs or have companies inside those schools to teach those people to be workers for those companies, but so that they truly, in fact, foster science, technology, the development of our country, taking advantage of the potential of our children, our young people.
Understanding, including, that... This logic of professionalizing our young people is also very important and the federal institutes are one of the public schools of excellent quality.
About: expand and fund public education at all levels
So it is not privatization that guarantees quality; it is more investment, more investment.
in education that guarantees the quality of teaching, ensuring, moreover, that teachers can develop this education in a free, liberating way and not following those Cartesian manuals, as you said, on the matter.
About: expand access to public education and higher education
And that is the most important thing: that education be public for everyone and at all levels, including higher education, which I haven't mentioned, that we defend free access to university.
And that university education should not be predominantly in the hands of private universities, which even... force students to take on enormous debts, because the result, indeed, of the logic of all governments, not only right-wing governments but even now some left-wing governments, has been this transfer of public resources to private initiative, even financing university education, causing the student to finish and, when they graduate,
they have a huge debt
to be able to pay, which is FIES and any other.
in that sense.
About: expand and fund public education at all levels
And what we defend is more investment in the creation
of more universities, so that everyone has free access, just as exists in elementary and secondary education.
Samara, with all due respect, we have many public universities, the federal government opened many public universities, but they don't have money for operational expenses.
So it causes [problems for] diversity.
- For
About: increase public investment in science, technology, and artificial intelligence
So we need universities to be centers for the production of knowledge, innovation and patent production.
We have to stop just importing technology and start producing technology and producing patents here in Brazil.
- For
About: destinar parte das receitas de patentes aos professores
Moreover, professors should receive a share of the results.
- For
About: improve the quality of public education and expand technical and vocational education
And, besides that, secondary education in Brazil is cruelty.
Eighty percent of young people do not do vocational training.
They don't take nursing technician courses, financial management, information technology, or even artificial intelligence more recently, and even digital marketing.
How can a poor country have three years of standardized education without giving people a profession?
This is absurd.
We have to review it and review it urgently.
And, besides that, 75% of students, I don't know if you knew, do you know what glossophobia is?
It's the fear of speaking in public.
They come in asking questions and leave silent, because rationalist education bombs students with linear logical thinking and does not stimulate the art of doubt, does not encourage debate of ideas, does not stimulate critical consciousness.
And a people without critical consciousness is a people that is dominated, it is a people that lacks autonomy, it is not the author of its own history.
So we have to redesign academic curricula.
We have to redesign elementary education, secondary education and universities.
Because I have a master's and a doctorate, I know how important the university is.
It must be a center, I reiterate, for the production of knowledge, innovation and patents.
That way Brazil will be an exporter of knowledge, patents and technology.
About: maintain funding for public education
This is. In fact what we defend, what the Unidade Popular defends, is that there be no contingencies in education.
And today cuts are made in education, cuts in universities, cuts even in teaching, research and extension within university structures, because savings are made to pay interest on the debt.
About: evitar cortes em saúde e educação para pagar juros da dívida
That is exactly why privatization is carried out, that is why administrative reform, pension reform, labor reform and contingencies, cuts in health and education are carried out.
to be able to pay the interest on the debt in our country.
We defend a government where there are no cuts.
This is a left-wing program.
It is to ensure that the State assumes responsibility for education at all levels.
About: garantir que patentes públicas sirvam ao interesse da população
Moreover because the patents created in universities should not be...
If we develop science and technology
within public universities, this should serve our people, because patents, even those created in medicine and health, are almost criminal in that you cannot give
Desconhecido
access
Desconhecido
to the people
Desconhecido
to
these technological innovations in terms of medication or treatments or procedures that occur, many of which are fostered within the university.
So public knowledge produced in universities should serve our people and there should be no cuts in health and education, because that is criminal.
Rogério Vilela
So now, Samara, you necessarily have to ask Zema, so everyone has the same number of answers.
Rogério Vilela
Let's go.
Perfect.
About: investigar e responsabilizar empresas por desastres ambientais e incluir vítimas nas decisões de reparação
The candidate spoke here about, Zema spoke here about this issue of having... the debate with the people about Vale, about the Vale catastrophe, about the crime that happened at Vale do Rio Doce, but the families were not called to be able to participate in those decisions, the affected were not called and none of those responsible for this disaster, for this crime, have been held accountable.
And we have said that you have defended the businessmen.
in your platform, in general, including also not having anything in your platform about being against the 6x1 schedule, by defending, even, the businessmen, since you are a businessman, you defend this, because you also belong to that class of the wealthy.
About: approve a bill that ends the 6x1 shift and reduces the working hours
Why don't you even defend ending an extremely exhausting schedule for our people, to which 14 million Brazilians are subjected?
Why defend, even... to the detriment of 14 million people, the big businessmen of Brazil.
Desconhecido
Time's up, go ahead.
- For
About: create formal jobs
Well, first I would like to say that the company I founded, which today provides more than 5,000 jobs, has been among the best companies to work for in Brazil for more than 15 years, because we treat everyone with the greatest dignity possible and they themselves say it's worth working here.
So, as I said here, I think there are honest businessmen, ethical businessmen, businessmen who take good care, who provide health plans, as is the case of my company, and there must be other businessmen you know who do not follow this line.
Now, I am in favor of Brazilians having a job where they earn well.
as happens in many countries.
And then, yes, they choose whether they want to work 20 hours a week, 25, 30, 40.
That's how it is in other countries.
Why here, with a pen stroke, does the bureaucrat in Brasília want to decide what the Brazilian must work?
Whoever goes to Europe, whoever goes to North America, decides.
If they are young... If they are young, if they have nothing to do, they can even say they want to work more than 40 hours.
Now, if they care for elderly parents, if they care for children, if they are taking a course, they say, I will work 20 hours a week.
And they earn well working 20, or 40, or more hours.
- For
About: create a new labor regime that goes beyond MEI
So what I want here in Brazil is an alternative to the CLT.
Today in Brazil, if someone wants to marry, they have the option of full community property, total separation, partial community property, but if they want to work, they don't.
They are forced to swallow the CLT.
I want to give another option to Brazilians.
There are young people I know who are in college and who say, I would like to have a job on Saturday or Sunday, I want to earn some extra money.
Under the CLT there's no way to say, I want to work Saturday from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. to earn an extra.
So where do they go?
To informality.
They will find precarious work or, when not invited by crime, become a criminal, a trafficker.
Is that what I want for Brazil, including for young people, because today those who are 14, 15, 16 years old in Brazil face a huge difficulty to get a formal job.
They only get it where the Sistema S exists, through the youth apprenticeship program.
So what I want is to give alternatives.
And that's how a country develops, that's how incomes improve.
Not by bureaucratizing it with a pen stroke there in Brasília.
- Against
About: reduce weekly working hours
If reducing the working hours... brought development, then let's reduce it to 10 hours per week, problem solved, then we'd be in heaven; maybe 40 is not adequate, so let's start working 10 hours per week.
About: reduce weekly working hours
40 is not adequate and I think the candidate speaks precisely for the category he represents, for the class he belongs to, which is the class of the wealthy, the class of businessmen, because if he spoke from the perspective of workers, he would know that there are no
Today, in Brazil, conditions for you to negotiate with your boss; there are no conditions for you to say how many hours you will work, quite the opposite.
In fact, I visited GM, General Motors, and there has been, even slyly, an increase in the working day, because there they work five-on two-off, already established, and they keep slyly adding another hour, another hour and a half to workers' shifts.
Even... creating productive Saturdays to be able to say that it is only to guarantee the construction of one more car, but in fact they have now made every Saturday a productive Saturday.
About: reduce weekly working hours
Defending not reducing the working day is to guarantee the profit of a few.
Because we workers who work the 6x1 do not have time to do anything.
On that single day off we have, we have to decide whether we will take care of the kids, whether we will do the laundry, whether we will rest.
About: guarantee the right to leisure time and weekly rest
Even for those who claim to defend the family to say that they will no longer guarantee more rest time for workers.
It's almost a contradiction.
About: guarantee the right to leisure time and weekly rest
And it's not true that that will prevent our country from developing.
It is not true.
About: preserve labor rights and the work card with guarantees
Every time a workers' right is put into question, they say Brazil will go bankrupt and will not develop.
Which class will not develop?
Because when it was slavery, it was the same debate by slaveholders, saying that ending slavery would paralyze the country and the country would not develop.
About: reduce working hours and increase salaries
It takes the struggle of workers, because with struggle, for example, the urban sanitation workers of Paraíba secured an end to the 6x1 schedule, secured a move to 5x2, with a salary increase, and today they have a remuneration of R$ 3,200.00,
Desconhecido
exactly
About: reduce working hours and increase salaries
what we defend as a wage increase.
Desconhecido
All right.
Desconhecido
Now your rebuttal, Zema.
Well, it seems the candidate did not understand well what I said.
- For
About: allow alternative work schedules (e.g., 5x2) in labor legislation
I said I want Brazilians to choose whether they want to work 20, 30, 40 or more hours per week.
It's like that in other countries.
- For
About: reduce public spending
Now what we have here in Brazil today is a country of debtors due to high interest rates caused by the government's profligate spending and everyone is doing side jobs, having a second, a third job and working much more to try to survive.
- For
About: garantir salário digno para todos
What I want is a decent wage, a high wage for everyone and then people will stick to their scheduled hours.
Rogério Vilela
Alright, so let's go to the second round and, coincidentally, in the draw the order is the same: Zema, Cury and Samara.
Rogério Vilela
So take advantage, drink your little water there, Zema, and ask a question now—since in the first block it went to Cury, now it has to be for Samara.
I wanted to ask Samara what her proposals and actions are to deal with the new cangaço.
We have debated the issue of public security.
as a matter of social debate.
The candidate even defended lowering the age of criminal responsibility and even said in the next response
About: expand work and education opportunities for youth
that there should be opportunities for young people.
I work in a prison in Rio Grande do Norte, and us lowering the age of criminal responsibility
Desconhecido
is
- Against
About: reduce the age of criminal responsibility for certain crimes
to favor criminal factions in our country,
Desconhecido
because
- Neutral
About: reduce the age of criminal responsibility for certain crimes
these young people will enter the prison
and will be recruited
by the criminal factions, because there they present themselves as an alternative for them to get a lawyer, to get everything, and you come out of there
Desconhecido
indebted
morally and financially to the factions.
About: usar serviço de inteligência para investigar e responsabilizar líderes do tráfico de drogas
We even advocate for intelligence services to punish the main people responsible for drug trafficking in our country.
And those true bosses of drug trafficking in our country are not in the peripheries of our country.
About: investigate and punish institutional collusion with drug trafficking
They are precisely in those large companies that are... in collusion with drug trafficking in our country, on Faria Lima, as the Federal Police operation showed, and these are not held accountable.
About: usar serviço de inteligência para investigar e responsabilizar líderes do tráfico de drogas
You carry out operations there in our communities, where we live, which is the theater of the war on drugs, the theater to finish off the factions, but, in truth, the factions continue... continue strengthening themselves and recruiting new people.
About: expand work and education opportunities for youth
We need to guarantee, furthermore, employment and income for youth, we need to guarantee access to education, we need to guarantee culture, leisure, sport, so that we can suffocate these criminal factions that are growing stronger, recruiting young people in our country.
Desconhecido
Reply, Zema.
In 2021, in the city of Varginha, the Military Police of Minas Gerais, through the intelligence service, detected that 28 men had rented a rural property.
They went there to make an inquiry and were met with gunfire.
There was a confrontation and 28 criminals were killed.
And they found at that property an arsenal of war that would be used in actions of the new cangaço, which, for those who don't know, even uses human shields.
They take innocent people, even women, put them on the hood of a vehicle in front in order to be able to blow up bank branches and ATMs.
- For
About: authorize police use of lethal force against armed criminals
After that action in Minas Gerais, we had a reduction of more than 99% in actions of the new cangaço in the State.
The message was crystal clear.
Blowing up ATMs and bank branches in Minas can cost you very dearly.
I deal with criminals like that.
It's not by sending bouquets of flowers, it's not by leaving them loose in the street to rob you.
I've been robbed three times.
I've already lost a cellphone, a laptop, three times.
For me, criminals belong behind bars.
- For
About: authorize police use of lethal force against armed criminals
A criminal who fires a gun must be shot.
For me, public security is resolved in that manner.
Brazil has already given too many opportunities to criminals, even our president saying that criminals are victims of society.
About: combater desigualdades sociais para reduzir a violência urbana
To advocate for reducing urban violence in our country is precisely about ending social inequalities.
If we say we're going to solve public security in our country, guaranteeing, furthermore, a greater sense of security in our country without solving social inequalities, we'll be superficial in the debate.
- Against
About: build 40 maximum-security prisons
Moreover, because if you increase, furthermore... weaponry, if you increase policing, if you increase
Desconhecido
the
weapon, if you increase prisons and our feeling of insecurity is ever greater, that we will indeed be robbed, that we will lose our belongings on the street, because we have not hit the central issue, which is the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few.
- Against
About: build 40 maximum-security prisons
And we need to solve that, because one can build mega-prisons, as the candidate proposes.
You can build a lot of other ways to fight crime and not focus on the social issue, we will not solve it.
Because, moreover, if Brazil were to solve the public security problem with prisons, we would already be the third safest country in the world, because we already are the third-largest
prison population in the world.
About: ensure basic public services for all
So we need to solve social issues, including ensuring that people have housing, that people have enough to eat, that people have access to these things.
It's not to say that there shouldn't be punishment for those who commit crimes.
There needs to be.
But to be able to solve the issue... deeply, at the root, it is necessary to combat all social inequalities in our country.
and that's what we are proposing.
It's not just fighting, making it look like everything is solved, when you carry out those mega-operations against those criminals, who are the smaller ones, moreover, and you don't catch, moreover, those who are the true bosses of organized crime in our country.
Rogério Vilela
Okay.
Rogério Vilela
Now it's Cury's turn to ask Zema, because in the first block he asked Samara.
Zema, how do you see the MEC?
The MEC made a cruel mistake in opting for medicine among the sciences.
Did you know that we have more medical schools here in China and have surpassed India?
Are you aware that... Samara is a dentist.
Did you know that Brazil is the country that has the most dentists in the world?
And did you know that Brazil has more lawyers than 200 countries, or as many as 200 countries combined in the world?
But we don't have technical engineers, we don't invest in science to produce knowledge and innovation, we are importers.
What's your stance regarding the MEC?
What is that mistake that happened, that transformed Brazil into a subservient country, that can't even... have a few unicorns, much less tricorns.
Desconhecido
Zema.
Cury.
The education problem in Brazil is old, isn't it?
And our performance in tests like PISA is shameful.
Brazil is there, I think in 107th place among 170 countries... 43rd, sorry.
I know it's a ranking, because there's PISA, there are others, an extremely shameful placement for our country.
And I have said, as I said at the beginning, that one of the problems we have in the area of education is pasteurization.
We have today in education, Cury, a true pact for mediocrity.
I was governor of a state that has 3,600 schools.
We were able to advance a lot in literacy, I will do the same in Brazil, we were able to advance a lot in the IDEB, even though I had taken over a state ruined, broken by the PT.
Now, one of the causes of this deficiency in the education system is that you can't recognize the best.
I saw it firsthand, I felt it.
A school that performs well, teachers who have excellent performance, must earn exactly the same as that school that leaves much to be desired, that teacher who doesn't have even a bit of commitment.
And we know that in the world people... want to improve, but they need to be recognized and rewarded for it.
You, who deal so much with human feeling, must know that whoever makes a lot of effort, who is committed, delivers good results, if in the end earns the same as someone who did the opposite, he will throw the towel on the ground and give up over time.
- For
About: introduce financial incentives for performance for students, teachers and principals
So, in Brazil, I am in favor of differentiation.
to the schools, to the professionals who are doing better, let's give a bonus to these people.
And today the unions are totally opposed.
The education unions, it's worth remembering here, are very concerned with keeping control of this machine, of these professionals, in collecting dues.
They are concerned with union contributions and not with improving education in Brazil.
So, the main crux of the issue lies in that pact for mediocrity.
Desconhecido
Rebuttal.
Zemo, we need to have an education of remarkable quality.
No country has developed without full-time education.
- For
About: expand full-time school hours
To prevent two types of drugs in particular.
Number one, chemical drugs, like cocaine and crack.
Number two, the digital drug.
because the digital [drug] interferes with the dopamine and serotonin cycle and causes dependence at levels comparable to cocaine.
Every 10 minutes, an adolescent self-harms, due to digital intoxication in particular.
We increased by 149% the suicide rate among 10- to 19-year-olds, at a time when there was almost none.
And we have had... families completely torn apart, parents and children physically close, infinitely distant, because parents are on their phones, intoxicated, and the children too.
So they are orphans of living parents.
We therefore need to educate... the parents, so that they can transfer the capital of their experiences and not just give toys to their children, share their tears, talk about their challenges so that they learn that there is no sky without storms and no path without accidents.
- For
About: include entrepreneurship and financial math education in the school curriculum
And we have to do this with revamped education, where the curricula are very different from the current ones.
We'll have public speaking to prevent the fear of speaking in public, we'll have... entrepreneurship so they can have dreams.
and we'll have financial education so they learn to properly manage what they earn.
Because there is a paradox.
Money does not guarantee happiness.
There are many miserable people living in palaces, as I have mentioned in interviews with the American Forbes.
But the lack of money guarantees anxiety.
So, if we don't have full-time education... completely changed curricula and we don't embrace teachers, who are the cooks of knowledge, who prepare the food for an audience that has no appetite, I also want to tell you that more than 80% of teachers are mentally burned out.
We have to embrace them and completely revamp education.
Desconhecido
Your rejoinder, Zilma.
- For
About: expandir educação em tempo integral e fortalecer ensino técnico-profissional
I want to add here, reminding that what I did in Minas I will do in Brazil.
When I took office, we had there... 70 full-time schools.
When I left there were more than 800.
From 70 to 800 full-time schools.
And full-time schooling, for those who understand education, is fundamental.
Because students will stay much longer at school, this also helps parents who often work and makes children learn much more.
And as president I want to bring forward the 50% goal, which is scheduled for ten years from now.
For five years from now, it is entirely possible.
As governor, even of a state that I took over broken, we advanced a lot.
And I also want to advance greatly in Brazil in vocational technical education, forming partnerships with private schools.
In this way, you speed up hiring and the training of students.
Because by the time the State builds a school... hires teachers, the time has already passed for millions of young people to receive decent technical education and this greatly helps a person to get a job, a better placement.
Rogério Vilela
Thank you, Zema, now it's Samara's turn and since you asked Zema in the first round, now it has to be Cury.
I'm going to ask you about the health issue, because it's an issue very important to me.
You are a doctor, I am a dentist, I'm a dentist in the SUS, I don't know if you also worked in the SUS, but I am a specialist in public health, with an emphasis on the Family Health Strategy.
- Against
About: expand telemedicine in the public health system
And one of the things that scared me a bit in the program was precisely the advocacy that 80% of what you defend, that 80% of appointments would be via telehealth, via telemedicine.
About: strengthen primary care and early diagnosis in SUS
And that runs counter to what we defend in the SUS, which is the defense of the bond, which is the defense of community health workers, of contact with the population, of family health, of having overall control over the family's health in a broad concept, not just the absence of disease, but the social issues that involve the concept of health.
Why defend that and how will this not destroy, including, primary care in our country?
Thank you, Samara, for this question that is very dear to me.
First of all, as I said, I am not placing myself as a presidential candidate because I depend on power or need power.
Moreover, with great humility, I respect those who depend on their salary.
but the president's salary will be donated to two microenterprises of public school students per month.
Unfortunately, many who enter public life are emotionally and financially unresolved and use power to gain advantage.
This is very, very, very sad.
- For
About: expand health assistance for vulnerable populations
When I talk about telemedicine, I say that we have to embrace poor people, because I know what pain is.
Pain can build us or destroy us.
Imagine a child with diarrhea and vomiting in the middle of the night.
How will she find a health service?
If she has an app, she can activate telemedicine, which is used worldwide.
This is already common worldwide.
Brazil is behind.
You can access a service in 15 or 30 minutes and the mother... together with the child, describes the symptoms and the condition is often resolved.
Imagine an elderly person who cannot get around and has pneumonia.
This is very serious and it takes 50 or 57 days, which is the average, to see a specialist, for example, an endocrinologist or a cardiologist.
This is cruelty.
So, it does not replace it under any circumstances, Samara.
In any case, you still need a bond.
The more you look into the eyes, the more you touch, the more you create empathy and a deeper relationship.
But in a continental country like ours, a country with so many difficulties like ours, not embracing poor people.
Look, 8% of the Brazilian population, I have the numbers, I was the best math student in the prep course.
Among more than a thousand students, I have the numbers, I think in numbers, although I am the most published psychiatrist in the world currently.
And I want to use my experience to have social justice and embrace vulnerable people.
Now, imagine an elderly person with pneumonia, he will have to wait several days.
If he can access quality telemedicine, at least we will resolve a large part of the simpler illnesses.
I reiterate, without replacing what is in-person and much more complex.
This could change the country and transform it into one of the most just countries and the one that most embraces the vulnerable.
I reiterate, there are 8% of people living in communities who do not have the minimum medical assistance.
And it is not fair.
We live in a bubble.
Even you, dentist, live in a bubble.
Poor people need to be embraced.
Desconhecido
Your reply, Samara.
About: garantir saúde pública 100% universal e fortalecer atendimento presencial no SUS
We, and I think speaking even in a more historical sense of the sanitary reform, of the defense of the SUS, of 100% universal public health as a right of people and a duty of the State, [believe that] advocating that now appointments be mostly over the internet or by a digital means
is a contradiction
in the struggle we have been waging.
to get more investment in health.
On this issue, including what to do at dawn when you are with your child — and I have my child, I use the UPA, I use the health center.
What do you do?
About: aumentar investimento público em saúde para ampliar rede de atenção básica e contratar profissionais
We have to have more investment to have more UPAs, to have more health posts, to even have public entrance exams so that there are more professionals and they are valued.
About: value and improve the working conditions of SUS professionals
We have been fighting, including, for minimum wages for health workers.
This applies to my category, which is dentists, but also to nursing, because the defense of a public service must be with comprehensive quality.
So it's more investment.
Can Brazil's budget — for a country that is rich, that seems like a continental country — really have no money?
There is money.
It is the tenth-largest economy in the world.
There should be more investment in health to have, including, the structure to attend to everyone personally, physically.
About: increase the federal budget for the Ministry of Health
Because, furthermore, cutting education and health funds, contingency-blocking health funds is criminal.
Because cutting health money... It's being complicit in the death of people who will stay in hospital queues, who will take two, three years to be able to have a surgery or an intervention.
So it's more investment in health to guarantee the professionals, to guarantee the infrastructure, to guarantee that everyone has quality care.
AI classification from the transcript of a public video. See the Methodology