Tarcisio: For the positions, people would show up — my protégé here and so on, important people — then they'd change the résumé; it was all sorts of things.
Tarcisio: The guy wanted to be superintendent of DENIT, but he had a nursing degree. Nothing against nurses, but that's not for running an engineering unit, it won't work. So, we put technicians in, we made a mix, we brought a lot of people from the private sector, we managed to bring market people into important positions.
It's interesting people's selflessness — it's the guy who already made money in the market and decided to offer himself to public service. I think that's really great and it worked very well. I had eight units showing negative results; one was liquidated.
Tarcisio: One was privatized, but by the time it was privatized we had already flipped the switch and the others are now showing positive results. So it's interesting — it was a brutal turnaround. 500 million in losses, half a billion in losses in 2018; this year it should show half a billion in profit.
Tarcisio: 1.2 billion in cash, a lot of investment happening. There's a famous phrase which is: "Just don't steal, for fuck's sake."