Ronaldo Caiado: He wants to defeat Lula.
Ronaldo Caiado: That is the objective.
So he now sees that, beyond defeating Lula, he needs someone who can win the elections and who knows how to govern, so that the PT never returns.
Ronaldo Caiado: Because we won in 2018.
Ronaldo Caiado: So you say, but why don't voters still turn their eyes to you?