Desconhecido: So how will you then go about solving Brazil's fiscal problem in light of Minas' situation?
Romeu Zema: Well, Natuza, as you said very well, in Minas Gerais we went from a deficit to a surplus, which was negative in '18, minus 11 billion; in 2024 it turned into a positive 5 billion.
We made an adjustment that, to my knowledge, no other state in Brazil has made.
Romeu Zema: We reduced, among state-owned companies, autonomous agencies and the direct administration, almost 50 thousand positions.
Romeu Zema: That's a lot.