Kim Kataguiri: Of course... Trump's tariff barrage became a political platform in Brazil, with Bolsonaro supporters shifting the blame onto Lula, who in fact conducts an incompetent and lazy negotiation. It suits Lula to have a tariff barrage against Brazil, because his government is doing poorly, his administration is poorly rated, and there's nothing better for a poorly rated government than an external enemy to divert attention.
Kim Kataguiri: On the other side, you have... from Flávio Bolsonaro, that claim that the tariffs wouldn't be against the companies, they'd be against Lula.
Lula doesn't export anything to the United States; companies export, so he is not harmed at all.
Kim Kataguiri: At the same time he says, look, the timing of the tariff barrage is bad, as if there were a good time for Brazil to suffer that.
Kim Kataguiri: In practice, sanctions by the United States.