[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":-1},["ShallowReactive",2],{"transcript-80c63091-4ac5-4ce0-8908-84ec9679ea85-es":3,"transcript-poster-80c63091-4ac5-4ce0-8908-84ec9679ea85":1739,"footer-top-topics-es":1740,"footer-top-speakers-es":1785},{"falas":4,"lang":1727,"meta":1728},[5,15,22,29,34,40,47,54,61,68,75,81,88,93,99,105,111,117,122,129,135,140,146,151,157,163,169,176,182,187,193,199,206,211,217,223,228,233,239,245,251,257,263,269,275,281,287,292,298,304,310,316,322,328,334,340,346,352,358,364,370,375,381,387,393,399,405,411,418,424,430,436,442,448,454,460,466,472,478,484,490,496,502,508,514,520,526,532,538,544,550,556,562,568,574,580,586,591,597,603,609,615,620,626,632,638,644,650,656,662,668,674,680,686,692,698,703,709,715,721,727,733,739,745,751,757,763,769,775,781,787,793,799,805,811,817,823,829,835,840,846,852,858,864,870,876,882,888,894,900,906,912,918,924,930,936,942,948,954,960,966,972,978,984,990,996,1002,1008,1014,1020,1026,1032,1038,1044,1050,1056,1062,1068,1074,1080,1086,1092,1098,1104,1110,1116,1122,1128,1134,1140,1146,1152,1158,1164,1170,1176,1182,1187,1193,1199,1205,1211,1217,1223,1229,1235,1241,1247,1253,1259,1265,1271,1277,1283,1289,1295,1301,1307,1313,1319,1325,1331,1337,1343,1349,1355,1361,1367,1373,1379,1385,1391,1397,1403,1409,1415,1421,1427,1433,1439,1445,1451,1457,1463,1469,1475,1481,1487,1493,1499,1505,1511,1517,1523,1529,1535,1541,1547,1553,1559,1565,1571,1577,1583,1589,1595,1601,1607,1613,1619,1625,1631,1637,1643,1649,1655,1661,1667,1673,1679,1685,1691,1697,1703,1709,1715,1721],{"idx":6,"utterance_id":7,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":10,"start_s":11,"end_s":12,"word_count":13,"indexable":14},0,"64663","Fernando Haddad","fernando-haddad","Renato Sérgio de Lima es profesor del Departamento de Gestión Pública de la FGV, tiene licenciatura en Ciencias Sociales, maestría y doctorado en Sociología por la Universidad de São Paulo, posdoctorado en el Instituto de Economía de la Unicamp, investigador visitante en el Centro de Estudios Latinoamericanos de la Universidad de Cambridge, en Inglaterra, autor de numerosos proyectos sobre violencia, seguridad pública, transparencia y estadísticas públicas.",9.74,41.12,60,false,{"idx":16,"utterance_id":17,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":18,"start_s":19,"end_s":20,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},1,"64664","Buenas noches, Renato.",42.06,42.86,3,{"idx":23,"utterance_id":24,"speaker_name":25,"text":26,"start_s":27,"end_s":28,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},2,"64665","Desconhecido","Buenas noches, Fernando.",43.64,44.66,{"idx":21,"utterance_id":30,"speaker_name":25,"text":31,"start_s":32,"end_s":33,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},"64666","¿Todo bien?",44.7,45.04,{"idx":35,"utterance_id":36,"speaker_name":25,"text":37,"start_s":38,"end_s":39,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},4,"64667","Todo bien.",45.32,45.64,{"idx":41,"utterance_id":42,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":43,"start_s":44,"end_s":45,"word_count":46,"indexable":14},5,"64668","Quisiera que usted abriera este programa dando un panorama de lo que ustedes aprendieron al hacer el Atlas y de lo que usted puede decir del retrato, del panorama de la violencia en nuestro país.",46.32,60.52,32,{"idx":48,"utterance_id":49,"speaker_name":25,"text":50,"start_s":51,"end_s":52,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},6,"64669","Lamentablemente, el retrato es extremadamente preocupante y ha sido una suma de malas noticias a lo largo de los 13 años de existencia del Foro Brasileño de Seguridad Pública, que es una red de investigación e información, de debate sobre el área, formada por policías y no policías.",61.2,79.12,46,{"idx":55,"utterance_id":56,"speaker_name":25,"text":57,"start_s":58,"end_s":59,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},7,"64670","Y desde hace al menos algunos años, hemos producido dos grandes publicaciones.",79.9,86.34,12,{"idx":62,"utterance_id":63,"speaker_name":25,"text":64,"start_s":65,"end_s":66,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},8,"64671","Es el Anuario Brasileño de Seguridad Pública con registros policiales.",87.2,90.5,10,{"idx":69,"utterance_id":70,"speaker_name":25,"text":71,"start_s":72,"end_s":73,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},9,"64672","Cada año publicamos los datos de los boletines de denuncia, de los registros de ocurrencia.",90.6,95.52,15,{"idx":67,"utterance_id":76,"speaker_name":25,"text":77,"start_s":78,"end_s":79,"word_count":80,"indexable":14},"64673","Y la otra con los datos del sistema de salud, que se publican en el Atlas de la Violencia, en una asociación con el IPEA.",96.04,102.36,22,{"idx":82,"utterance_id":83,"speaker_name":25,"text":84,"start_s":85,"end_s":86,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},11,"64674","Y al mirar los datos, cada uno tiene su particularidad, pero al observar los datos de salud, la noticia es extremadamente preocupante.",103.04,110.12,23,{"idx":60,"utterance_id":89,"speaker_name":25,"text":90,"start_s":91,"end_s":92,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},"64675","Siempre tiene un desfase de dos años, es importante subrayarlo.",111.08,114.64,{"idx":94,"utterance_id":95,"speaker_name":25,"text":96,"start_s":97,"end_s":98,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},13,"64676","¿Y por qué es necesario ese tiempo?",114.72,117.8,{"idx":100,"utterance_id":101,"speaker_name":25,"text":102,"start_s":103,"end_s":104,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},14,"64677","Porque tomamos todos los microdatos —como, en general, técnicamente los denominamos— en los que cada muerte tiene allí información.",118.2,126.52,{"idx":74,"utterance_id":106,"speaker_name":25,"text":107,"start_s":108,"end_s":109,"word_count":110,"indexable":14},"64678","Si la persona era joven, cuál era la edad, cuál la raza o color, el lugar y todo eso.",126.92,133.02,17,{"idx":112,"utterance_id":113,"speaker_name":25,"text":114,"start_s":115,"end_s":116,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},16,"64679","Y llegamos en 2017 a 65.602 víctimas.",133.18,138,{"idx":110,"utterance_id":118,"speaker_name":25,"text":119,"start_s":120,"end_s":121,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},"64680","una tasa de casi 32 muertes por cada 100.000 habitantes.",139.9,143.24,{"idx":123,"utterance_id":124,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":125,"start_s":126,"end_s":127,"word_count":128,"indexable":14},18,"64681","Y corríjame si me equivoco, es más que la muerte de los estadounidenses en toda la guerra de Vietnam.",143.28,148.48,20,{"idx":130,"utterance_id":131,"speaker_name":25,"text":132,"start_s":133,"end_s":134,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},19,"64682","Exactamente.",148.96,149.56,{"idx":128,"utterance_id":136,"speaker_name":25,"text":137,"start_s":138,"end_s":139,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},"64683","Nosotros tuvimos una... nosotros tenemos aquí todos los años una enorme cantidad de homicidios y que muchas veces ya no nos conmueven.",149.62,158.82,{"idx":141,"utterance_id":142,"speaker_name":25,"text":143,"start_s":144,"end_s":145,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},21,"64684","esos homicidios no nos causan la debida indignación para que cambiemos ese escenario.",159.86,165.68,{"idx":80,"utterance_id":147,"speaker_name":25,"text":148,"start_s":149,"end_s":150,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},"64685","¿Y por qué sucede esto?",165.72,166.7,{"idx":87,"utterance_id":152,"speaker_name":25,"text":153,"start_s":154,"end_s":155,"word_count":156,"indexable":14},"64686","Si miramos, nos daremos cuenta de que quienes están muriendo son la propia población brasileña, es decir, no es una guerra, un conflicto contra el país.",166.76,173.9,28,{"idx":158,"utterance_id":159,"speaker_name":25,"text":160,"start_s":161,"end_s":162,"word_count":130,"indexable":14},24,"64687","Predominantemente son jóvenes, predominantemente son negros, que es la suma de pretos y pardos siguiendo la metodología del IBGE.",174.44,182.48,{"idx":164,"utterance_id":165,"speaker_name":25,"text":166,"start_s":167,"end_s":168,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},25,"64688","Y casi siempre residentes de las periferias de los grandes centros urbanos.",183.78,187.46,{"idx":170,"utterance_id":171,"speaker_name":25,"text":172,"start_s":173,"end_s":174,"word_count":175,"indexable":14},26,"64689","Tenemos un problema de violencia extremadamente grave, que desafortunadamente no se limita solo a las muertes, el Atlas habla de ellas, pero tenemos, por ejemplo, casi 60 mil violaciones todos los años.",187.68,200.64,36,{"idx":177,"utterance_id":178,"speaker_name":25,"text":179,"start_s":180,"end_s":181,"word_count":175,"indexable":14},27,"64690","Podríamos hablar aquí de una infinidad de tipos delictivos que ocurren todos los días en el país y que no sabemos bien cómo manejar por una serie de cuestiones,",201.1,212.48,{"idx":156,"utterance_id":183,"speaker_name":25,"text":184,"start_s":185,"end_s":186,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},"64691","históricas, políticas y, sobre todo, institucionales.",212.52,214.9,{"idx":188,"utterance_id":189,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":190,"start_s":191,"end_s":192,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},29,"64692","Renato, hay una tesis, una tesis muy comentada, sobre todo por el público lego, de que la violencia es también una consecuencia de la desigualdad social.",215.38,231.76,{"idx":194,"utterance_id":195,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":196,"start_s":197,"end_s":198,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},30,"64693","Se comenta eso, pero tuvimos un período de caída de la desigualdad social en nuestro país.",232.76,240.52,{"idx":200,"utterance_id":201,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":202,"start_s":203,"end_s":204,"word_count":205,"indexable":14},31,"64694","y al menos 10, 12 años de importante descenso de la desigualdad y de apertura de oportunidades, inclusive para esa juventud que empezó a frecuentar universidades, escuelas técnicas, cosas que no estaban disponibles en el siglo pasado.",242.26,255.82,35,{"idx":46,"utterance_id":207,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":208,"start_s":209,"end_s":210,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},"64695","¿A qué atribuyes el aumento de la violencia?",257.22,259.58,{"idx":212,"utterance_id":213,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":214,"start_s":215,"end_s":216,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},33,"64696","¿Es, como dicen, una cuestión relacionada específicamente con las guerras de drogas, con otros factores?",260.14,266.58,{"idx":218,"utterance_id":219,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":220,"start_s":221,"end_s":222,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},34,"64697","¿Cómo describirías el panorama?",266.96,269.9,{"idx":205,"utterance_id":224,"speaker_name":25,"text":225,"start_s":226,"end_s":227,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},"64698","Podemos dividir ese volumen... casi el conjunto de muertes en tres grandes bloques.",270.06,276.7,{"idx":175,"utterance_id":229,"speaker_name":25,"text":230,"start_s":231,"end_s":232,"word_count":177,"indexable":14},"64699","El primero, que son conflictos interpersonales y que tiene que ver también con las dinámicas de la violencia doméstica, de género, los feminicidios, las peleas en bares, en fin.",277.18,286.94,{"idx":234,"utterance_id":235,"speaker_name":25,"text":236,"start_s":237,"end_s":238,"word_count":205,"indexable":14},37,"64700","Conjunto de muertes que ocurren, no me gusta mucho la expresión, pero se convencionó como motivos banales, porque nadie va a matar a otro por una cuestión banal; existe allí algún conflicto que conduce a esa situación.",287.12,299.58,{"idx":240,"utterance_id":241,"speaker_name":25,"text":242,"start_s":243,"end_s":244,"word_count":141,"indexable":14},38,"64701","Y esos delitos están creciendo de forma bastante... en el país, al menos en los últimos 10 años, es decir, los conflictos interpersonales.",300.3,307.92,{"idx":246,"utterance_id":247,"speaker_name":25,"text":248,"start_s":249,"end_s":250,"word_count":110,"indexable":14},39,"64702","Hay otra dimensión, que es la dimensión de las respuestas públicas frente al crimen y a la violencia.",307.98,314.2,{"idx":252,"utterance_id":253,"speaker_name":25,"text":254,"start_s":255,"end_s":256,"word_count":128,"indexable":14},40,"64703","Podemos percibir que las cárceles son un verdadero depósito de gente y una fábrica de alimentar a las facciones criminales.",314.26,322.1,{"idx":258,"utterance_id":259,"speaker_name":25,"text":260,"start_s":261,"end_s":262,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},41,"64704","Y las policías tienen un patrón de letalidad muy alto.",322.78,326.16,{"idx":264,"utterance_id":265,"speaker_name":25,"text":266,"start_s":267,"end_s":268,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},42,"64705","18 personas por día mueren como consecuencia de intervenciones policiales.",326.18,329.9,{"idx":270,"utterance_id":271,"speaker_name":25,"text":272,"start_s":273,"end_s":274,"word_count":46,"indexable":14},43,"64706","Eso es un número que nos coloca como líderes en números absolutos y en el mismo nivel que países de América Central, que son muy pequeños y que afrontan problemas agudos de seguridad.",329.96,341.22,{"idx":276,"utterance_id":277,"speaker_name":25,"text":278,"start_s":279,"end_s":280,"word_count":123,"indexable":14},44,"64707","Y hay un tercer bloque que tiene que ver con el mercado de la droga y de las armas.",341.6,347.42,{"idx":282,"utterance_id":283,"speaker_name":25,"text":284,"start_s":285,"end_s":286,"word_count":205,"indexable":14},45,"64708","Y ahí sí notamos que, al menos en 2016, 2017, tuvimos un descontrol cuando el Comando Vermelho y el PCC se declararon la guerra mutuamente y eso influyó en la dinámica de todo el país.",347.6,360.36,{"idx":53,"utterance_id":288,"speaker_name":25,"text":289,"start_s":290,"end_s":291,"word_count":177,"indexable":14},"64709","Entonces, cuando hablamos de seguridad, no hablo solo de crimen organizado, así como tampoco hablo solo de conflictos interpersonales o de las respuestas públicas.",360.42,368.66,{"idx":293,"utterance_id":294,"speaker_name":25,"text":295,"start_s":296,"end_s":297,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},47,"64710","El país tuvo, por lo menos hasta los años 90, una gran tradición de estudios sobre desigualdad.",369.42,374.52,{"idx":299,"utterance_id":300,"speaker_name":25,"text":301,"start_s":302,"end_s":303,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},48,"64711","Y existía una relación, y aún existe una relación, solo que es inversa.",375.26,379.26,{"idx":305,"utterance_id":306,"speaker_name":25,"text":307,"start_s":308,"end_s":309,"word_count":240,"indexable":14},49,"64712","Por ejemplo, cuando generamos riqueza en una determinada región, el Nordeste, que hoy es la región que concentra el mayor número de homicidios, veremos que esa riqueza desarrolló el lugar, la violencia crece junto.",379.78,393.4,{"idx":311,"utterance_id":312,"speaker_name":25,"text":313,"start_s":314,"end_s":315,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},50,"64713","porque donde hay dinero existe el crimen, va el crimen.",393.62,396.98,{"idx":317,"utterance_id":318,"speaker_name":25,"text":319,"start_s":320,"end_s":321,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},51,"64714","Es decir, generas un mercado consumidor para la propia droga.",397.16,401.02,{"idx":323,"utterance_id":324,"speaker_name":25,"text":325,"start_s":326,"end_s":327,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},52,"64715","Las instituciones son frágiles, porque tienes que realizar concursos para contratar policía, para tener comisarías, para poder comprar vehículos policiales, y eso cuesta.",401.46,409.5,{"idx":329,"utterance_id":330,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":331,"start_s":332,"end_s":333,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},53,"64716","Me imagino que las facciones aún no estén plenamente establecidas, porque son mercados nuevos.",409.54,413.54,{"idx":335,"utterance_id":336,"speaker_name":25,"text":337,"start_s":338,"end_s":339,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},54,"64717","Disputan el territorio.",413.86,415.6,{"idx":341,"utterance_id":342,"speaker_name":25,"text":343,"start_s":344,"end_s":345,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},55,"64718","el Estado todavía no está totalmente preparado y tienes esa situación.",416.28,420.74,{"idx":347,"utterance_id":348,"speaker_name":25,"text":349,"start_s":350,"end_s":351,"word_count":130,"indexable":14},56,"64719","Es decir, esa curva de aprendizaje de la política pública sucedió en la región sudeste del país en los años 90.",420.78,426.96,{"idx":353,"utterance_id":354,"speaker_name":25,"text":355,"start_s":356,"end_s":357,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},57,"64720","Teníamos aquí en la región sudeste las mayores tasas del país.",427.32,430.82,{"idx":359,"utterance_id":360,"speaker_name":25,"text":361,"start_s":362,"end_s":363,"word_count":123,"indexable":14},58,"64721","Espírito Santo, Río de Janeiro, Minas Gerais y São Paulo concentraban las muertes y se hizo la inversión.",430.94,436.82,{"idx":365,"utterance_id":366,"speaker_name":25,"text":367,"start_s":368,"end_s":369,"word_count":130,"indexable":14},59,"64722","Entonces, existe una relación, sí, con cuestiones económicas, pero no necesariamente con la desigualdad o con la pobreza, sino con la dinámica.",436.88,445.74,{"idx":13,"utterance_id":371,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":372,"start_s":373,"end_s":374,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},"64723","La dinámica de la economía explica más que la estática, por así decirlo.",445.82,450.96,{"idx":376,"utterance_id":377,"speaker_name":25,"text":378,"start_s":379,"end_s":380,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},61,"64724","Que la situación, la condición de desigualdad.",451.82,454.62,{"idx":382,"utterance_id":383,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":384,"start_s":385,"end_s":386,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},62,"64725","Entiendo.",455.12,455.52,{"idx":388,"utterance_id":389,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":390,"start_s":391,"end_s":392,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},63,"64726","Y aquí en el Sudeste, los niveles aún no son comparables con los de países desarrollados.",456.08,463.76,{"idx":394,"utterance_id":395,"speaker_name":25,"text":396,"start_s":397,"end_s":398,"word_count":128,"indexable":14},64,"64727","Solo São Paulo tiene una tasa que es menor que... otros estados y otras ciudades, grandes ciudades del mundo.",464.48,473.92,{"idx":400,"utterance_id":401,"speaker_name":25,"text":402,"start_s":403,"end_s":404,"word_count":141,"indexable":14},65,"64728","Por ejemplo, la tasa de homicidios de la ciudad de São Paulo es menor que la de Chicago, en Estados Unidos.",473.98,478.54,{"idx":406,"utterance_id":407,"speaker_name":25,"text":408,"start_s":409,"end_s":410,"word_count":252,"indexable":14},66,"64729","Chicago vive un problema con pandillas muy fuerte, entonces también allí tienes una situación, y pandillas armadas, dentro del contexto en el que en Estados Unidos está permitido portar armas en algunos lugares no, pero el arma circula con facilidad.",479.14,492.8,{"idx":412,"utterance_id":413,"speaker_name":25,"text":414,"start_s":415,"end_s":416,"word_count":417,"indexable":14},67,"64730","El problema es que esa caída en São Paulo tiene una serie de cuestiones que tienen que ver con, desde la calidad de la información, que muestra que tal vez la caída no sea exactamente esa proporcional, pero existe, es una caída real, pero porque vivimos un doble efecto de una política pública que... buena o mala, y se la puede criticar, se está haciendo desde hace mucho tiempo, es decir, las policías tienen inversión, hacen concursos todos los años, de alguna forma están consiguiendo dar respuestas, incluso por la capacidad económica del Estado de São Paulo de mantener la estructura policial.",494.02,530.42,101,{"idx":419,"utterance_id":420,"speaker_name":25,"text":421,"start_s":422,"end_s":423,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},68,"64731","¿Podía mejorar?",530.88,531.48,{"idx":425,"utterance_id":426,"speaker_name":25,"text":427,"start_s":428,"end_s":429,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},69,"64732","Puede mejorar mucho, tal vez vivamos en mejores condiciones.",531.6,535.46,{"idx":431,"utterance_id":432,"speaker_name":25,"text":433,"start_s":434,"end_s":435,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},70,"64733","Pero, por otro lado, tenemos una única facción aquí en São Paulo.",535.94,539.36,{"idx":437,"utterance_id":438,"speaker_name":25,"text":439,"start_s":440,"end_s":441,"word_count":110,"indexable":14},71,"64734","Existe un monopolio del mercado de la droga y de las armas, lo que no genera disputa por territorio.",539.68,545.1,{"idx":443,"utterance_id":444,"speaker_name":25,"text":445,"start_s":446,"end_s":447,"word_count":200,"indexable":14},72,"64735","Y no quiere decir que aquí el PCC sea más pacífico que el Comando Vermelho, porque el PCC, cuando está disputando territorio ahora en el Nordeste, es tan violento como.",545.22,556.54,{"idx":449,"utterance_id":450,"speaker_name":25,"text":451,"start_s":452,"end_s":453,"word_count":177,"indexable":14},73,"64736","Pero aquí existe el monopolio, aquí no existe el conflicto por territorio, y ese conflicto ocurrió en 2006, por ejemplo, con el ataque que ustedes tuvieron anteriormente.",556.96,566.46,{"idx":455,"utterance_id":456,"speaker_name":25,"text":457,"start_s":458,"end_s":459,"word_count":431,"indexable":14},74,"64737","Entonces, cuando hacemos política de seguridad pública, tenemos que tener en cuenta las respuestas del Estado, y el Estado me refiero a todas las esferas y poderes, Federación, Estados y Municipios, Poder Judicial, Legislativo, Ejecutivo, órganos del Estado como Policías, Defensorías y Ministerio Público, pero también cuando miramos la propia dinámica del crimen organizado y la dinámica de los otros factores que conducen a la violencia.",566.56,591,{"idx":461,"utterance_id":462,"speaker_name":25,"text":463,"start_s":464,"end_s":465,"word_count":110,"indexable":14},75,"64738","São Paulo se benefició, por ejemplo, de una reducción en el número absoluto de jóvenes en su población.",591.1,596.18,{"idx":467,"utterance_id":468,"speaker_name":25,"text":469,"start_s":470,"end_s":471,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},76,"64739","Ya que el homicidio está concentrado entre jóvenes, cuando ese número cae, caen también las tasas de violencia.",596.64,602.04,{"idx":473,"utterance_id":474,"speaker_name":25,"text":475,"start_s":476,"end_s":477,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},77,"64740","La población joven en el estado de São Paulo está disminuyendo.",602.24,605.34,{"idx":479,"utterance_id":480,"speaker_name":25,"text":481,"start_s":482,"end_s":483,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},78,"64741","Eso también afecta las tasas de homicidio.",605.7,608.46,{"idx":485,"utterance_id":486,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":487,"start_s":488,"end_s":489,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},79,"64742","¿Y la cuestión del encarcelamiento?",608.62,610.12,{"idx":491,"utterance_id":492,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":493,"start_s":494,"end_s":495,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},80,"64743","¿Cómo lo ves?",610.5,611.26,{"idx":497,"utterance_id":498,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":499,"start_s":500,"end_s":501,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},81,"64744","Porque en São Paulo no hay una población carcelaria que sea la mayor del país.",611.66,614.62,{"idx":503,"utterance_id":504,"speaker_name":25,"text":505,"start_s":506,"end_s":507,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},82,"64745","Cerca del 40% de la población carcelaria del país está aquí en São Paulo.",615.22,618.66,{"idx":509,"utterance_id":510,"speaker_name":25,"text":511,"start_s":512,"end_s":513,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},83,"64746","Es decir, también en términos relativos.",618.76,620.68,{"idx":515,"utterance_id":516,"speaker_name":25,"text":517,"start_s":518,"end_s":519,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},84,"64747","En relativos.",621,621.68,{"idx":521,"utterance_id":522,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":523,"start_s":524,"end_s":525,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},85,"64748","Y absolutos, por no decir absolutos.",621.88,624.06,{"idx":527,"utterance_id":528,"speaker_name":25,"text":529,"start_s":530,"end_s":531,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},86,"64749","Sí.",624.24,624.38,{"idx":533,"utterance_id":534,"speaker_name":25,"text":535,"start_s":536,"end_s":537,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},87,"64750","¿Qué tienes que decir sobre eso?",624.94,626.56,{"idx":539,"utterance_id":540,"speaker_name":25,"text":541,"start_s":542,"end_s":543,"word_count":158,"indexable":14},88,"64751","Hoy el sistema penitenciario, en realidad, es la suma de todos nuestros errores y todos nuestros defectos en el área de seguridad pública.",626.8,635.02,{"idx":545,"utterance_id":546,"speaker_name":25,"text":547,"start_s":548,"end_s":549,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},89,"64752","Porque incluso en São Paulo tenemos una sobrepoblación de las prisiones.",635.14,639.9,{"idx":551,"utterance_id":552,"speaker_name":25,"text":553,"start_s":554,"end_s":555,"word_count":461,"indexable":14},90,"64753","Y cuando entras en una prisión, quien ya visitó una cárcel lo sabe muy bien, sea aquí en São Paulo o en Maranhão o en Amazonas, que recientemente tuvo una crisis con la muerte de 55 presos, te darás cuenta de que del muro hacia adentro... Casi siempre quienes tienen el control son los propios presos, porque en una situación de sobrepoblación no logras que el agente penitenciario haga la gestión.",640.58,666.72,{"idx":557,"utterance_id":558,"speaker_name":25,"text":559,"start_s":560,"end_s":561,"word_count":158,"indexable":14},91,"64754","Y como ellos tienen el control de la situación, terminan estableciendo vínculos, estableciendo lógicas que ayudarán en la calle a la organización del crimen.",667.14,675.4,{"idx":563,"utterance_id":564,"speaker_name":25,"text":565,"start_s":566,"end_s":567,"word_count":431,"indexable":14},92,"64755","Entonces, la política pública, en este caso, la política penitenciaria, termina generando un problema para las calles en el día a día de las policías, que es... El delincuente entra en la prisión quizás por un delito menor, potencialmente de menor gravedad, pero sale reclutado por la facción porque dependerá de la facción para seguir, para no ser víctima de violencia dentro de la prisión, para que su familia sea protegida fuera de la prisión.",675.7,702.74,{"idx":569,"utterance_id":570,"speaker_name":25,"text":571,"start_s":572,"end_s":573,"word_count":128,"indexable":14},93,"64756","Así se van creando lazos de lealtad que muchas veces son extremadamente difíciles de romper después de que se establecen.",703.02,710.62,{"idx":575,"utterance_id":576,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":577,"start_s":578,"end_s":579,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},94,"64757","Y la cuestión del juicio en el STF (Supremo Tribunal Federal), ya otra vez aplazado, sobre esa cuestión específica.",711.68,718.52,{"idx":581,"utterance_id":582,"speaker_name":25,"text":583,"start_s":584,"end_s":585,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},95,"64758","Sobre las drogas.",718.84,719.5,{"idx":587,"utterance_id":588,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":583,"start_s":589,"end_s":590,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},96,"64759",719.62,720.38,{"idx":592,"utterance_id":593,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":594,"start_s":595,"end_s":596,"word_count":175,"indexable":14},97,"64760","Hay toda la polémica en torno a la ley de 2006, que para muchos especialistas terminó, bajo el argumento de que estaba resolviendo el problema, empeorándolo, porque generó una discusión jurisprudencial sobre cómo interpretarla.",721.4,736.28,{"idx":598,"utterance_id":599,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":600,"start_s":601,"end_s":602,"word_count":200,"indexable":14},98,"64761","Y en opinión de mucha gente que he escuchado ya, sugirió más encarcelamiento y no menos, pero ahora el STF (Supremo Tribunal Federal) tiene esto en su regazo, para decidir desde hace algún tiempo.",737.38,747.9,{"idx":604,"utterance_id":605,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":606,"start_s":607,"end_s":608,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},99,"64762","Ha ido aplazando la sentencia.",748.74,749.94,{"idx":610,"utterance_id":611,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":612,"start_s":613,"end_s":614,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},100,"64763","¿Cuál es la expectativa de los especialistas del sector de seguridad?",750.08,753.88,{"idx":417,"utterance_id":616,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":617,"start_s":618,"end_s":619,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},"64764","¿Qué imaginan que podría pasar de bueno?",754.5,756.82,{"idx":621,"utterance_id":622,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":623,"start_s":624,"end_s":625,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},102,"64765","o preocupante en relación con eso?",757.48,759.52,{"idx":627,"utterance_id":628,"speaker_name":25,"text":629,"start_s":630,"end_s":631,"word_count":158,"indexable":14},103,"64766","La ley de 2006, en realidad, fue una ley pensada con la idea de resolver el problema y, de hecho, lo agravó.",759.56,766.06,{"idx":633,"utterance_id":634,"speaker_name":25,"text":635,"start_s":636,"end_s":637,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},104,"64767","Creo que ese es uno de los grandes problemas de la policía.",767.06,769.08,{"idx":639,"utterance_id":640,"speaker_name":25,"text":641,"start_s":642,"end_s":643,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},105,"64768","¿Puedes explicar un poco esto para quienes nos están escuchando?",769.12,771.02,{"idx":645,"utterance_id":646,"speaker_name":25,"text":647,"start_s":648,"end_s":649,"word_count":164,"indexable":14},106,"64769","La ley de 2006 intentaba que la cuestión de la droga fuera tratada de forma diferente para el consumidor y para el traficante.",771.56,780.26,{"idx":651,"utterance_id":652,"speaker_name":25,"text":653,"start_s":654,"end_s":655,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},107,"64770","El consumidor no sería criminalizado.",780.76,782.68,{"idx":657,"utterance_id":658,"speaker_name":25,"text":659,"start_s":660,"end_s":661,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},108,"64771","mientras que el traficante sería castigado con penas rigurosas.",783.14,786.06,{"idx":663,"utterance_id":664,"speaker_name":25,"text":665,"start_s":666,"end_s":667,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},109,"64772","¿Qué ocurrió?",786.32,787.14,{"idx":669,"utterance_id":670,"speaker_name":25,"text":671,"start_s":672,"end_s":673,"word_count":359,"indexable":14},110,"64773","quizás con cierta ingenuidad institucional, pensando que ahora las cosas se resolverían porque tenemos la condición de ofrecer una legislación más moderna, y nos olvidamos de que la forma de interpretar las leyes por parte del Poder Judicial muchas veces pasa por concepciones, inclusive de ley y orden, de lo que es ley y orden.",787.74,811.2,{"idx":675,"utterance_id":676,"speaker_name":25,"text":677,"start_s":678,"end_s":679,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},111,"64774","Y en la práctica, ¿qué sucede?",811.72,813.68,{"idx":681,"utterance_id":682,"speaker_name":25,"text":683,"start_s":684,"end_s":685,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},112,"64775","Los flagrantes de las policías militares de... drogas terminan siendo tipificados como tráfico, independientemente de la cantidad, porque la ley no establece una cantidad mínima.",814.02,823.3,{"idx":687,"utterance_id":688,"speaker_name":25,"text":689,"start_s":690,"end_s":691,"word_count":141,"indexable":14},113,"64776","Portugal y otros países terminan diciendo: mira, a partir de una determinada cantidad de droga eres traficante y no consumidor.",823.78,830.28,{"idx":693,"utterance_id":694,"speaker_name":25,"text":695,"start_s":696,"end_s":697,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},114,"64777","Es objetivo.",830.82,831.42,{"idx":699,"utterance_id":700,"speaker_name":25,"text":695,"start_s":701,"end_s":702,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},115,"64778",831.5,832.28,{"idx":704,"utterance_id":705,"speaker_name":25,"text":706,"start_s":707,"end_s":708,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},116,"64779","Y aquí es subjetivo.",832.34,833.64,{"idx":710,"utterance_id":711,"speaker_name":25,"text":712,"start_s":713,"end_s":714,"word_count":80,"indexable":14},117,"64780","Es el juez quien va a mirar tu fisionomía, te va a escuchar y decir: no, tú eres traficante, tú eres consumidor.",834.06,840.58,{"idx":716,"utterance_id":717,"speaker_name":25,"text":718,"start_s":719,"end_s":720,"word_count":246,"indexable":14},118,"64781","Esto hace que el hijo de una magistrada del norte del país con 100 kg de marihuana sea considerado consumidor y un chico de la periferia de São Paulo que con 5, 10 gramos de marihuana sea considerado consumidor.",841,856.44,{"idx":722,"utterance_id":723,"speaker_name":25,"text":724,"start_s":725,"end_s":726,"word_count":128,"indexable":14},119,"64782","porque hay ahí un conjunto de concepciones de ley y orden que están en el campo jurisprudencial, no en la ley.",856.8,864.4,{"idx":728,"utterance_id":729,"speaker_name":25,"text":730,"start_s":731,"end_s":732,"word_count":234,"indexable":14},120,"64783","Y creo que en realidad la ley de 2006 fue un acto de buena voluntad, pero un acto extremadamente equivocado que permitió que el sistema penitenciario más que duplicara su población en 13 años.",865.76,880.28,{"idx":734,"utterance_id":735,"speaker_name":25,"text":736,"start_s":737,"end_s":738,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},121,"64784","En 13 años se duplicó.",880.42,881.56,{"idx":740,"utterance_id":741,"speaker_name":25,"text":742,"start_s":743,"end_s":744,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},122,"64785","Más que se duplicó.",881.8,882.62,{"idx":746,"utterance_id":747,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":748,"start_s":749,"end_s":750,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},123,"64786","Y en parte usted lo atribuye a la ley de 2006.",882.74,884.76,{"idx":752,"utterance_id":753,"speaker_name":25,"text":754,"start_s":755,"end_s":756,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},124,"64787","Porque el 25%, más o menos 25% de los presos están encarcelados por delitos que involucran directamente el tráfico de drogas.",885.1,894.36,{"idx":758,"utterance_id":759,"speaker_name":25,"text":760,"start_s":761,"end_s":762,"word_count":164,"indexable":14},125,"64788","Si usted suma los robos asociados a la droga, da casi el 40% de la población penitenciaria involucrada en delitos vinculados al mundo de las drogas.",894.44,902.58,{"idx":764,"utterance_id":765,"speaker_name":25,"text":766,"start_s":767,"end_s":768,"word_count":110,"indexable":14},126,"64789","Y eso es algo que tenemos que pensar y es en lo que el STF (Supremo Tribunal Federal) podría ayudar.",903.18,907.44,{"idx":770,"utterance_id":771,"speaker_name":25,"text":772,"start_s":773,"end_s":774,"word_count":170,"indexable":14},127,"64790","Pero, considerando el espíritu de la época —'zeitgeist', que es la expresión—, probablemente se pisó el freno para ver si las cosas se acomodaban.",907.88,916.7,{"idx":776,"utterance_id":777,"speaker_name":25,"text":778,"start_s":779,"end_s":780,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},128,"64791","Pero, ¿qué sería una acomodación?",917.44,919.08,{"idx":782,"utterance_id":783,"speaker_name":25,"text":784,"start_s":785,"end_s":786,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},129,"64792","Que el Congreso Nacional tome la decisión y legisle alterando la ley, estableciendo un criterio objetivo.",920.22,925.62,{"idx":788,"utterance_id":789,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":790,"start_s":791,"end_s":792,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},130,"64793","¿Hay proyectos de ley en trámite en esa dirección?",927.04,929.1,{"idx":794,"utterance_id":795,"speaker_name":25,"text":796,"start_s":797,"end_s":798,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},131,"64794","Hay proyectos de ley en trámite.",929.22,930.84,{"idx":800,"utterance_id":801,"speaker_name":25,"text":802,"start_s":803,"end_s":804,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},132,"64795","Tenemos cerca de 500 proyectos en el área de seguridad pública en trámite.",930.9,934.32,{"idx":806,"utterance_id":807,"speaker_name":25,"text":808,"start_s":809,"end_s":810,"word_count":164,"indexable":14},133,"64796","Algunos buenos, algunos muy malos, pero existen proyectos en esa área que ayudarían a resolver el problema, que no pasan por paquetes mediáticos, pero sí pasan",934.52,946.84,{"idx":812,"utterance_id":813,"speaker_name":25,"text":814,"start_s":815,"end_s":816,"word_count":335,"indexable":14},134,"64797","por diagnósticos, estudios de impacto. Para dar una idea, si fuéramos ahora, esto recuerda, por ejemplo, el paquete enviado por el ministro Sérgio Moro, y siempre me parece interesante que, en términos de marketing, vale mucho la pena llamarlo 'paquete anticrimen', pero parece que antes nadie hacía política anticrimen.",947.3,965.54,{"idx":818,"utterance_id":819,"speaker_name":25,"text":820,"start_s":821,"end_s":822,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},135,"64798","Entonces no: la política de seguridad se intentó varias veces; los problemas no están en eso.",965.58,970.22,{"idx":824,"utterance_id":825,"speaker_name":25,"text":826,"start_s":827,"end_s":828,"word_count":305,"indexable":14},136,"64799","Y nos daremos cuenta de que, si las cosas se pusieran tal como está previsto en el paquete del ministro Sérgio Moro, que fue enviado al Congreso Nacional, tendríamos que gastar, según un cálculo simple, alrededor de R$ 45 mil millones para resolver el problema del déficit penitenciario.",970.8,989.94,{"idx":830,"utterance_id":831,"speaker_name":25,"text":832,"start_s":833,"end_s":834,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},137,"64800","Ese dinero puede usarse de otra manera si establecemos criterios objetivos.",990.36,994.66,{"idx":116,"utterance_id":836,"speaker_name":25,"text":837,"start_s":838,"end_s":839,"word_count":46,"indexable":14},"64801","O sea, ¿para qué voy a encarcelar a un usuario, voy a entregarlo como un regalo al PCC o al Comando Vermelho o a cualquiera de las 70 organizaciones criminales del país?",994.7,1002.18,{"idx":841,"utterance_id":842,"speaker_name":25,"text":843,"start_s":844,"end_s":845,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},139,"64802","Se crea inmediatamente un vínculo de dependencia.",1002.22,1004.74,{"idx":847,"utterance_id":848,"speaker_name":25,"text":849,"start_s":850,"end_s":851,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},140,"64803","¿Por qué no lo voy a tratar de otra manera?",1004.78,1006.12,{"idx":853,"utterance_id":854,"speaker_name":25,"text":855,"start_s":856,"end_s":857,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},141,"64804","¿Por qué voy a tener que entrar en el debate, por ejemplo...?",1006.54,1009.84,{"idx":859,"utterance_id":860,"speaker_name":25,"text":861,"start_s":862,"end_s":863,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},142,"64805","Hoy, ¿cuánto cuesta el sistema penitenciario?",1009.88,1011.46,{"idx":865,"utterance_id":866,"speaker_name":25,"text":867,"start_s":868,"end_s":869,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},143,"64806","Más o menos, cada preso cuesta entre R$ 2.000 y R$ 2.500 al mes.",1011.88,1018.9,{"idx":871,"utterance_id":872,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":873,"start_s":874,"end_s":875,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},144,"64807","Eso, en meses, equivaldría a unos R$ 30.000 al año.",1018.98,1021.18,{"idx":877,"utterance_id":878,"speaker_name":25,"text":879,"start_s":880,"end_s":881,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},145,"64808","R$ 30.000 por año.",1021.28,1022.26,{"idx":883,"utterance_id":884,"speaker_name":25,"text":885,"start_s":886,"end_s":887,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},146,"64809","multiplicado por R$ 730.000, R$ 700.000.",1022.42,1023.44,{"idx":889,"utterance_id":890,"speaker_name":25,"text":891,"start_s":892,"end_s":893,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},147,"64810","Estamos hablando de... Ahora la cuenta, alrededor de R$ 20 mil millones.",1024.46,1029.68,{"idx":895,"utterance_id":896,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":897,"start_s":898,"end_s":899,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},148,"64811","Y tendríamos que llegar a...",1031.04,1032.6,{"idx":901,"utterance_id":902,"speaker_name":25,"text":903,"start_s":904,"end_s":905,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},149,"64812","Unos R$ 45 mil millones más.",1033.04,1034.5,{"idx":907,"utterance_id":908,"speaker_name":25,"text":909,"start_s":910,"end_s":911,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},150,"64813","A más R$ 45, no llegar a R$ 45.",1034.6,1036.56,{"idx":913,"utterance_id":914,"speaker_name":25,"text":915,"start_s":916,"end_s":917,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},151,"64814","No llegar a R$ 45.",1036.6,1037.94,{"idx":919,"utterance_id":920,"speaker_name":25,"text":921,"start_s":922,"end_s":923,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},152,"64815","Eso para aplicar...",1038.18,1039.06,{"idx":925,"utterance_id":926,"speaker_name":25,"text":927,"start_s":928,"end_s":929,"word_count":200,"indexable":14},153,"64816","Para poder mantener la población que ya está hoy dentro del... y con la previsión de aplicar si las medidas sugeridas por el ministro Sérgio Moro fueran puestas en práctica.",1039.1,1050.18,{"idx":931,"utterance_id":932,"speaker_name":25,"text":933,"start_s":934,"end_s":935,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},154,"64817","Pero no existen estudios de impacto.",1050.3,1051.9,{"idx":937,"utterance_id":938,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":939,"start_s":940,"end_s":941,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},155,"64818","¿Llegaríamos a superar la cifra de un millón de presos en Brasil?",1052.02,1055.54,{"idx":943,"utterance_id":944,"speaker_name":25,"text":945,"start_s":946,"end_s":947,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},156,"64819","Lo superaríamos; nos acercaríamos a los Estados Unidos, con 2,3 millones de presos.",1056.26,1061.72,{"idx":949,"utterance_id":950,"speaker_name":25,"text":951,"start_s":952,"end_s":953,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},157,"64820","De ahí que la cuenta cuadre...",1062.52,1063.42,{"idx":955,"utterance_id":956,"speaker_name":25,"text":957,"start_s":958,"end_s":959,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},158,"64821","De ahí que la cuenta cuadre, porque la referencia son los costos de los Estados Unidos.",1063.48,1066.9,{"idx":961,"utterance_id":962,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":963,"start_s":964,"end_s":965,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},159,"64822","Solo eso costaría R$ 60 mil millones.",1067.38,1069.16,{"idx":967,"utterance_id":968,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":969,"start_s":970,"end_s":971,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},160,"64823","Para un país que necesita, según las autoridades económicas, ajustar sus cuentas.",1069.64,1074.96,{"idx":973,"utterance_id":974,"speaker_name":25,"text":975,"start_s":976,"end_s":977,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},161,"64824","Si nos fijamos en lo relativo a la Previsión, prácticamente todo el ahorro proyectado por la reforma de la Previsión se gastaría en el sistema penitenciario.",1075.12,1082.66,{"idx":979,"utterance_id":980,"speaker_name":25,"text":981,"start_s":982,"end_s":983,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},162,"64825","El ahorro proyectado por la propuesta que está en trámite se gastaría en el sistema penitenciario.",1083.5,1089.04,{"idx":985,"utterance_id":986,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":987,"start_s":988,"end_s":989,"word_count":141,"indexable":14},163,"64826","Hablamos un poco de esa cuestión de la ley de drogas, del STF (Supremo Tribunal Federal), pero usted mencionó otros dos componentes importantes.",1089.66,1095.36,{"idx":991,"utterance_id":992,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":993,"start_s":994,"end_s":995,"word_count":200,"indexable":14},164,"64827","Son los delitos cometidos por personas que están o dentro de la casa —feminicidio—, o en los bares, o en el tránsito, supongo, que conforman un núcleo importante de ese número que usted registró.",1095.84,1111.46,{"idx":997,"utterance_id":998,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":999,"start_s":1000,"end_s":1001,"word_count":130,"indexable":14},165,"64828","En ese caso específico no estamos hablando de droga, estamos hablando de otros conflictos sociales que resultan en homicidio, feminicidio.",1113.72,1121.26,{"idx":1003,"utterance_id":1004,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1005,"start_s":1006,"end_s":1007,"word_count":46,"indexable":14},166,"64829","En ese caso específico... ¿Cuál es la recomendación que los especialistas del mundo, porque es un programa mundial y se ha estado estudiando a nivel mundial, hacen para la disminución del número de muertes?",1122.34,1136.2,{"idx":1009,"utterance_id":1010,"speaker_name":25,"text":1011,"start_s":1012,"end_s":1013,"word_count":240,"indexable":14},167,"64830","El gran factor que facilita una muerte así, que facilita cualquier muerte, es que, en general, cuando hablamos de prevención, se trata de realizar una intervención focalizada en los factores que generan o que permiten que esa violencia sea cometida.",1136.8,1150.72,{"idx":1015,"utterance_id":1016,"speaker_name":25,"text":1017,"start_s":1018,"end_s":1019,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},168,"64831","Hay dos grandes factores en este caso, que son el alcohol",1151.32,1154.14,{"idx":1021,"utterance_id":1022,"speaker_name":25,"text":1023,"start_s":1024,"end_s":1025,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},169,"64832","Y el control de la cuestión del alcohol, eso es muy importante.",1154.6,1158.82,{"idx":1027,"utterance_id":1028,"speaker_name":25,"text":1029,"start_s":1030,"end_s":1031,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},170,"64833","Pero, aprovechando el debate actual, el arma de fuego.",1159.24,1162.72,{"idx":1033,"utterance_id":1034,"speaker_name":25,"text":1035,"start_s":1036,"end_s":1037,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},171,"64834","Existe un gran consenso en la literatura internacional de que más armas implican más muertes.",1163.14,1167.84,{"idx":1039,"utterance_id":1040,"speaker_name":25,"text":1041,"start_s":1042,"end_s":1043,"word_count":170,"indexable":14},172,"64835","Pero, de cierta forma, lo que era un consenso técnico en 2003, 2004, con la aprobación del Estatuto del Desarme, se ha convertido ahora en otra guerra.",1168.46,1177.48,{"idx":1045,"utterance_id":1046,"speaker_name":25,"text":1047,"start_s":1048,"end_s":1049,"word_count":170,"indexable":14},173,"64836","Una gran manifestación de la guerra cultural que se está librando en el país, hablando de la libertad, del derecho individual a protegerse, y así sucesivamente.",1179,1188.5,{"idx":1051,"utterance_id":1052,"speaker_name":25,"text":1053,"start_s":1054,"end_s":1055,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},174,"64837","Pero en la práctica, quien tiene un arma de fuego legalizada está dentro de su casa.",1189,1193.54,{"idx":1057,"utterance_id":1058,"speaker_name":25,"text":1059,"start_s":1060,"end_s":1061,"word_count":158,"indexable":14},175,"64838","Y quienes están muriendo son mujeres, de forma mucho más intensa, dentro de las casas que fuera, en manos de los, entre comillas, criminales.",1193.88,1202.72,{"idx":1063,"utterance_id":1064,"speaker_name":25,"text":1065,"start_s":1066,"end_s":1067,"word_count":141,"indexable":14},176,"64839","Es decir, el arma no es un instrumento que valga la pena tener en casa porque acaba permitiendo un aumento de esto.",1202.92,1210.56,{"idx":1069,"utterance_id":1070,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1071,"start_s":1072,"end_s":1073,"word_count":82,"indexable":14},177,"64840","¿Qué piensa usted de ese decreto editado por la Presidencia de la República?",1210.62,1213.66,{"idx":1075,"utterance_id":1076,"speaker_name":25,"text":1077,"start_s":1078,"end_s":1079,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},178,"64841","Ese decreto es completamente inconstitucional.",1213.7,1215.8,{"idx":1081,"utterance_id":1082,"speaker_name":25,"text":1083,"start_s":1084,"end_s":1085,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},179,"64842","Está plagado de problemas técnicos y jurídicos.",1216.12,1220,{"idx":1087,"utterance_id":1088,"speaker_name":25,"text":1089,"start_s":1090,"end_s":1091,"word_count":234,"indexable":14},180,"64843","Y parte de premisas equivocadas, porque incluso para que el internauta lo entienda, no se trata de estar en contra o a favor, porque Brasil en 2004 no prohibió; el referéndum preguntó si la población quería que la comercialización fuera prohibida.",1220.84,1235.46,{"idx":1093,"utterance_id":1094,"speaker_name":25,"text":1095,"start_s":1096,"end_s":1097,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},181,"64844","No, ganó el 'no', así que no fue prohibido.",1235.96,1238.08,{"idx":1099,"utterance_id":1100,"speaker_name":25,"text":1101,"start_s":1102,"end_s":1103,"word_count":123,"indexable":14},182,"64845","Desde entonces crecieron las compras y los registros de armas para que las personas las tengan en casa.",1238.14,1243.16,{"idx":1105,"utterance_id":1106,"speaker_name":25,"text":1107,"start_s":1108,"end_s":1109,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},183,"64846","Lo que hace el decreto es prácticamente anular una ley.",1243.58,1247.32,{"idx":1111,"utterance_id":1112,"speaker_name":25,"text":1113,"start_s":1114,"end_s":1115,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},184,"64847","Empieza por ahí.",1247.68,1248.38,{"idx":1117,"utterance_id":1118,"speaker_name":25,"text":1119,"start_s":1120,"end_s":1121,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},185,"64848","Un decreto nunca puede ir más allá ni entrar en conflicto con la ley que reglamenta.",1248.52,1255.12,{"idx":1123,"utterance_id":1124,"speaker_name":25,"text":1125,"start_s":1126,"end_s":1127,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},186,"64849","Y él, en la práctica, va más allá, revocando.",1255.62,1258.24,{"idx":1129,"utterance_id":1130,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1131,"start_s":1132,"end_s":1133,"word_count":130,"indexable":14},187,"64850","Tiene sentido que la gente esté preocupada de que ese decreto, sí, esté abriendo las puertas a la legalización de milicias.",1258.38,1266.8,{"idx":1135,"utterance_id":1136,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1137,"start_s":1138,"end_s":1139,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},188,"64851","Lo digo porque es proyecto, incluso, de uno de los hijos del presidente; es un guiño",1267.04,1272.76,{"idx":1141,"utterance_id":1142,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1143,"start_s":1144,"end_s":1145,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},189,"64852","para grupos de milicianos.",1273.68,1275.46,{"idx":1147,"utterance_id":1148,"speaker_name":25,"text":1149,"start_s":1150,"end_s":1151,"word_count":141,"indexable":14},190,"64853","En la práctica, creo que el decreto facilita la organización de las milicias; no necesariamente abre espacio para su reglamentación.",1276.16,1285.72,{"idx":1153,"utterance_id":1154,"speaker_name":25,"text":1155,"start_s":1156,"end_s":1157,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},191,"64854","¿Por qué facilita?",1285.78,1286.62,{"idx":1159,"utterance_id":1160,"speaker_name":25,"text":1161,"start_s":1162,"end_s":1163,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},192,"64855","Porque es indulgente con el consumo de munición, principalmente en la cuestión de la munición.",1286.7,1291.86,{"idx":1165,"utterance_id":1166,"speaker_name":25,"text":1167,"start_s":1168,"end_s":1169,"word_count":46,"indexable":14},193,"64856","Las milicias podrán comprar armas porque casi todas tienen en sus filas integrantes de las fuerzas de seguridad, guardias, policías, miembros de las fuerzas armadas, que de algún modo tienen límite de compra.",1292.9,1305.3,{"idx":1171,"utterance_id":1172,"speaker_name":25,"text":1173,"start_s":1174,"end_s":1175,"word_count":164,"indexable":14},194,"64857","Pero la milicia, de alguna forma, es una organización paralela al Estado y también consigue consumir la munición ilegal que acaba siendo...",1305.68,1314.6,{"idx":1177,"utterance_id":1178,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1179,"start_s":1180,"end_s":1181,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},195,"64858","Y está expresa la prohibición constitucional de asociación paramilitar.",1314.64,1319.02,{"idx":1183,"utterance_id":1184,"speaker_name":25,"text":132,"start_s":1185,"end_s":1186,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},196,"64859",1319.16,1319.98,{"idx":1188,"utterance_id":1189,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1190,"start_s":1191,"end_s":1192,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},197,"64860","Una de las pocas prohibiciones de asociación en la Constitución es esa.",1320.18,1324.66,{"idx":1194,"utterance_id":1195,"speaker_name":25,"text":1196,"start_s":1197,"end_s":1198,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},198,"64861","En el resto, usted tiene una libertad de asociación muy amplia.",1325,1328.36,{"idx":1200,"utterance_id":1201,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1202,"start_s":1203,"end_s":1204,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},199,"64862","Muy amplia, como en cualquier democracia.",1328.54,1330.62,{"idx":1206,"utterance_id":1207,"speaker_name":25,"text":1208,"start_s":1209,"end_s":1210,"word_count":258,"indexable":14},200,"64863","Ahora, la milicia se está convirtiendo en el principal problema actual, porque mucha gente, y mucha gente incluso del campo progresista y de la izquierda, ya creyó que la milicia sería una buena forma de organización de la sociedad para lidiar con la seguridad pública.",1330.98,1346.04,{"idx":1212,"utterance_id":1213,"speaker_name":25,"text":1214,"start_s":1215,"end_s":1216,"word_count":252,"indexable":14},201,"64864","No es una buena forma, porque se está dando demasiada autonomía a grupos para andar armados y disciplinar, establecer lo que vale en términos de ley y orden, y más que eso, se está... sin ningún tipo de control.",1347,1361.9,{"idx":1218,"utterance_id":1219,"speaker_name":25,"text":1220,"start_s":1221,"end_s":1222,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},202,"64865","Basta ver lo que ocurre en Río de Janeiro, basta ver lo que ocurre en varios otros estados que tienen denuncias de organización de milicias.",1361.98,1367.92,{"idx":1224,"utterance_id":1225,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1226,"start_s":1227,"end_s":1228,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},203,"64866","Me gustaría hacer una provocación incluso filosófica, si usted me permite, que es la siguiente.",1367.96,1373,{"idx":1230,"utterance_id":1231,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1232,"start_s":1233,"end_s":1234,"word_count":329,"indexable":14},204,"64867","Cuando usted facilita la vida de quien quiere organizar grupos paramilitares que ofrecen un servicio privado de seguridad y, de cierta manera, está retirando al Estado del suministro de lo que es uno de sus principales deberes, ¿no es una contradicción con el propio concepto de Estado Nacional, con la propia noción de Estado moderno?",1373.6,1396.18,{"idx":1236,"utterance_id":1237,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1238,"start_s":1239,"end_s":1240,"word_count":123,"indexable":14},205,"64868","Quiero decir, ¿no está usted, de cierta manera, quitándole a los hombros del Estado una responsabilidad que le corresponde?",1396.74,1404.5,{"idx":1242,"utterance_id":1243,"speaker_name":25,"text":1244,"start_s":1245,"end_s":1246,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},206,"64869","Sin duda.",1404.96,1405.5,{"idx":1248,"utterance_id":1249,"speaker_name":25,"text":1250,"start_s":1251,"end_s":1252,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},207,"64870","Y hay un complicador en ese proceso.",1405.8,1407.76,{"idx":1254,"utterance_id":1255,"speaker_name":25,"text":1256,"start_s":1257,"end_s":1258,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},208,"64871","Si miramos en términos de filosofía del Estado, su razonamiento está correcto.",1407.92,1411.98,{"idx":1260,"utterance_id":1261,"speaker_name":25,"text":1262,"start_s":1263,"end_s":1264,"word_count":80,"indexable":14},209,"64872","Pero el problema es que el Estado brasileño, en ningún momento —desde la Constitución de 88— discutió qué es seguridad pública.",1412.52,1419.04,{"idx":1266,"utterance_id":1267,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1268,"start_s":1269,"end_s":1270,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},210,"64873","Permítame interrumpirle para avanzar.",1419.2,1421.58,{"idx":1272,"utterance_id":1273,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1274,"start_s":1275,"end_s":1276,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},211,"64874","En los derechos del ciudadano, no hay un capítulo en la Constitución para discutir la seguridad.",1422.3,1428.14,{"idx":1278,"utterance_id":1279,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1280,"start_s":1281,"end_s":1282,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},212,"64875","¿Qué imagina que ocurrió en la Constituyente de 88?",1429,1432.3,{"idx":1284,"utterance_id":1285,"speaker_name":25,"text":1286,"start_s":1287,"end_s":1288,"word_count":170,"indexable":14},213,"64876","El campo progresista terminó relegando la seguridad a 'no hablemos de eso porque nos recuerda al régimen autoritario' y quedó a cargo de las propias corporaciones policiales.",1432.5,1442.82,{"idx":1290,"utterance_id":1291,"speaker_name":25,"text":1292,"start_s":1293,"end_s":1294,"word_count":240,"indexable":14},214,"64877","Si miramos las actas taquigráficas, el único representante de la sociedad civil escuchado para el artículo 144, para la construcción del artículo 144, fue Márcio Tomás Bastos, entonces presidente de la Ordem dos Advogados do Brasil.",1443,1454.62,{"idx":1296,"utterance_id":1297,"speaker_name":25,"text":1298,"start_s":1299,"end_s":1300,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},215,"64878","Todos los demás fueron militares o policías.",1455.26,1458,{"idx":1302,"utterance_id":1303,"speaker_name":25,"text":1304,"start_s":1305,"end_s":1306,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},216,"64879","Y que, en la práctica, ¿qué hicieron?",1458.54,1460.56,{"idx":1308,"utterance_id":1309,"speaker_name":25,"text":1310,"start_s":1311,"end_s":1312,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},217,"64880","Constitucionalizaron cuestiones corporativas.",1460.74,1464.68,{"idx":1314,"utterance_id":1315,"speaker_name":25,"text":1316,"start_s":1317,"end_s":1318,"word_count":188,"indexable":14},218,"64881","Y es tan difícil que usted cambie, por ejemplo, la relación entre la policía militar, la policía civil y la policía federal, debido a esa constitucionalización de cuestiones corporativas que ninguna otra había hecho.",1464.96,1476.18,{"idx":1320,"utterance_id":1321,"speaker_name":25,"text":1322,"start_s":1323,"end_s":1324,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},219,"64882","Las corporaciones aprovecharon para preservar el status quo de aquel momento.",1476.86,1481.94,{"idx":1326,"utterance_id":1327,"speaker_name":25,"text":1328,"start_s":1329,"end_s":1330,"word_count":156,"indexable":14},220,"64883","Claramente la gran dificultad hoy es que no conseguimos avanzar en reformas de las policías y hemos ido dejando espacio para antagonizar derechos humanos y seguridad pública.",1482.74,1495.68,{"idx":1332,"utterance_id":1333,"speaker_name":25,"text":1334,"start_s":1335,"end_s":1336,"word_count":141,"indexable":14},221,"64884","Y la población reconoce, por varias investigaciones, que piensa que... Quien habla de derechos humanos es incompatibile con la seguridad pública.",1496.5,1503.98,{"idx":1338,"utterance_id":1339,"speaker_name":25,"text":1340,"start_s":1341,"end_s":1342,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},222,"64885","Y, de cierta forma, cuando nosotros... Porque es una contradicción de la historia, ¿no?",1504.56,1507.58,{"idx":1344,"utterance_id":1345,"speaker_name":25,"text":1346,"start_s":1347,"end_s":1348,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},223,"64886","Que es una contradicción, pero en el día a día de la población... Es eso lo que ella percibe.",1507.7,1511.92,{"idx":1350,"utterance_id":1351,"speaker_name":25,"text":1352,"start_s":1353,"end_s":1354,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},224,"64887","Es eso lo que ella percibe porque la violencia ha crecido, como mostró el propio Atlas.",1511.96,1515.9,{"idx":1356,"utterance_id":1357,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1358,"start_s":1359,"end_s":1360,"word_count":164,"indexable":14},225,"64888","¿Tiene sentido hablar de sistema único de seguridad pública como, por ejemplo, hablamos de sistema único de salud o sistema único de asistencia social?",1516,1523.9,{"idx":1362,"utterance_id":1363,"speaker_name":25,"text":1364,"start_s":1365,"end_s":1366,"word_count":175,"indexable":14},226,"64889","Creo que la primera pregunta... Sí, el sistema único tiene todo el sentido, porque solo para ejemplificar con números, las policías militares atienden más o menos entre 150 y 160 millones de registros cada año.",1524.32,1537.56,{"idx":1368,"utterance_id":1369,"speaker_name":25,"text":1370,"start_s":1371,"end_s":1372,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},227,"64890","Entonces, casi un registro por habitante adulto del país, incluso más.",1538.36,1542.38,{"idx":1374,"utterance_id":1375,"speaker_name":25,"text":1376,"start_s":1377,"end_s":1378,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},228,"64891","Increíble.",1542.42,1543.16,{"idx":1380,"utterance_id":1381,"speaker_name":25,"text":1382,"start_s":1383,"end_s":1384,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},229,"64892","De esos, más o menos el 10% son de naturaleza criminal.",1543.74,1548.1,{"idx":1386,"utterance_id":1387,"speaker_name":25,"text":1388,"start_s":1389,"end_s":1390,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},230,"64893","Entonces, 14, 15 millones.",1548.22,1550.98,{"idx":1392,"utterance_id":1393,"speaker_name":25,"text":1394,"start_s":1395,"end_s":1396,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},231,"64894","Eso, teóricamente, la policía militar... Son 15 millones y...",1552.12,1554.58,{"idx":1398,"utterance_id":1399,"speaker_name":25,"text":1400,"start_s":1401,"end_s":1402,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},232,"64895","Comunicaciones.",1554.96,1555.6,{"idx":1404,"utterance_id":1405,"speaker_name":25,"text":1406,"start_s":1407,"end_s":1408,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},233,"64896","Comunicaciones, boletines de denuncia.",1555.64,1557.28,{"idx":1410,"utterance_id":1411,"speaker_name":25,"text":1412,"start_s":1413,"end_s":1414,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},234,"64897","Boletines de denuncia.",1557.32,1558.38,{"idx":1416,"utterance_id":1417,"speaker_name":25,"text":1418,"start_s":1419,"end_s":1420,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},235,"64898","De naturaleza criminal.",1558.48,1559.54,{"idx":1422,"utterance_id":1423,"speaker_name":25,"text":1424,"start_s":1425,"end_s":1426,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},236,"64899","Naturaleza criminal.",1559.58,1560.4,{"idx":1428,"utterance_id":1429,"speaker_name":25,"text":1430,"start_s":1431,"end_s":1432,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},237,"64900","Hurto, robo, violación, homicidio.",1560.58,1562.38,{"idx":1434,"utterance_id":1435,"speaker_name":25,"text":1436,"start_s":1437,"end_s":1438,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},238,"64901","Entonces, 160 millones, conflictos, volumen alto, eso ayuda.",1563.16,1567.34,{"idx":1440,"utterance_id":1441,"speaker_name":25,"text":1442,"start_s":1443,"end_s":1444,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},239,"64902","10, 15 millones de naturaleza criminal.",1567.36,1570.68,{"idx":1446,"utterance_id":1447,"speaker_name":25,"text":1448,"start_s":1449,"end_s":1450,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},240,"64903","Y luego tendrías que tratar eso.",1571.22,1572.92,{"idx":1452,"utterance_id":1453,"speaker_name":25,"text":1454,"start_s":1455,"end_s":1456,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},241,"64904","De hecho, nosotros estamos tratando eso, pero de una manera completamente equivocada.",1573.3,1577.2,{"idx":1458,"utterance_id":1459,"speaker_name":25,"text":1460,"start_s":1461,"end_s":1462,"word_count":141,"indexable":14},242,"64905","O sea, hay mucho trabajo que están haciendo las instituciones que se sienten injusticiadas con las críticas, porque de hecho están trabajando.",1577.46,1584.62,{"idx":1464,"utterance_id":1465,"speaker_name":25,"text":1466,"start_s":1467,"end_s":1468,"word_count":35,"indexable":14},243,"64906","Porque no son reconocidas.",1584.66,1585.68,{"idx":1470,"utterance_id":1471,"speaker_name":25,"text":1472,"start_s":1473,"end_s":1474,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},244,"64907","No son reconocidas.",1585.74,1586.96,{"idx":1476,"utterance_id":1477,"speaker_name":25,"text":1478,"start_s":1479,"end_s":1480,"word_count":200,"indexable":14},245,"64908","Solo que la forma en que trabajan es tan disjunta, o sea, tan conflictiva, que no logras que esas ocurrencias lleguen a su fin con una respuesta satisfactoria.",1587.48,1599.68,{"idx":1482,"utterance_id":1483,"speaker_name":25,"text":1484,"start_s":1485,"end_s":1486,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},246,"64909","Y quien marca el tono del miedo y la inseguridad termina siendo un crimen organizado.",1600.04,1603.38,{"idx":1488,"utterance_id":1489,"speaker_name":25,"text":1490,"start_s":1491,"end_s":1492,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},247,"64910","porque son las bandas las que se organizan y dan sentido.",1603.62,1605.84,{"idx":1494,"utterance_id":1495,"speaker_name":25,"text":1496,"start_s":1497,"end_s":1498,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},248,"64911","Entonces, un sistema único coordinaría todo ese sistema.",1605.9,1609.66,{"idx":1500,"utterance_id":1501,"speaker_name":25,"text":1502,"start_s":1503,"end_s":1504,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},249,"64912","Esa línea de coordinación es fundamental, pero hoy no existe.",1610.2,1615.24,{"idx":1506,"utterance_id":1507,"speaker_name":25,"text":1508,"start_s":1509,"end_s":1510,"word_count":194,"indexable":14},250,"64913","Y solo vendría junto con una PEC, una Propuesta de Enmienda Constitucional, porque cualquier otra medida que no sea una PEC topará con cuestiones sobre la autonomía de los poderes.",1615.9,1628.1,{"idx":1512,"utterance_id":1513,"speaker_name":25,"text":1514,"start_s":1515,"end_s":1516,"word_count":194,"indexable":14},251,"64914","A diferencia de todas las otras áreas, salud, educación, que recordaste bien, vamos a ver, por ejemplo, que en seguridad, en las otras áreas, el poder judicial es parte reactiva.",1628.46,1640.18,{"idx":1518,"utterance_id":1519,"speaker_name":25,"text":1520,"start_s":1521,"end_s":1522,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},252,"64915","Espera ser provocado para tomar una decisión.",1640.24,1642.52,{"idx":1524,"utterance_id":1525,"speaker_name":25,"text":1526,"start_s":1527,"end_s":1528,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},253,"64916","En seguridad, no.",1642.7,1643.5,{"idx":1530,"utterance_id":1531,"speaker_name":25,"text":1532,"start_s":1533,"end_s":1534,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},254,"64917","Lo que haga el poder judicial tiene un impacto completo en la política de seguridad.",1644.7,1649.98,{"idx":1536,"utterance_id":1537,"speaker_name":25,"text":1538,"start_s":1539,"end_s":1540,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},255,"64918","Casi el 40% de los presos son presos provisionales, aguardando alguna manifestación.",1650.4,1654.6,{"idx":1542,"utterance_id":1543,"speaker_name":25,"text":1544,"start_s":1545,"end_s":1546,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},256,"64919","Ya impacta directamente.",1654.88,1655.94,{"idx":1548,"utterance_id":1549,"speaker_name":25,"text":1550,"start_s":1551,"end_s":1552,"word_count":41,"indexable":14},257,"64920","Yo no sé dónde encarcelar.",1655.98,1657.04,{"idx":1554,"utterance_id":1555,"speaker_name":25,"text":1556,"start_s":1557,"end_s":1558,"word_count":164,"indexable":14},258,"64921","La gravedad o la forma como... Y siempre es interesante mirar nuevamente el sistema penitenciario, porque la pena, el preso, es responsabilidad del poder judicial.",1657.94,1668.38,{"idx":1560,"utterance_id":1561,"speaker_name":25,"text":1562,"start_s":1563,"end_s":1564,"word_count":177,"indexable":14},259,"64922","Es él quien va a discutir, el poder judicial quien va a discutir cuál será la duración de la pena, si habrá beneficios o si habrá el régimen.",1668.92,1676.22,{"idx":1566,"utterance_id":1567,"speaker_name":25,"text":1568,"start_s":1569,"end_s":1570,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},260,"64923","El poder judicial va a organizar la vida del preso.",1677.4,1679.98,{"idx":1572,"utterance_id":1573,"speaker_name":25,"text":1574,"start_s":1575,"end_s":1576,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},261,"64924","La prisión, el penal, pertenece al Poder Ejecutivo.",1680.38,1683.64,{"idx":1578,"utterance_id":1579,"speaker_name":25,"text":1580,"start_s":1581,"end_s":1582,"word_count":60,"indexable":14},262,"64925","que tendrá que comprar comida, tobillera electrónica y todo lo demás.",1684.32,1687.66,{"idx":1584,"utterance_id":1585,"speaker_name":25,"text":1586,"start_s":1587,"end_s":1588,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},263,"64926","Y no conversan.",1688.04,1688.74,{"idx":1590,"utterance_id":1591,"speaker_name":25,"text":1592,"start_s":1593,"end_s":1594,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},264,"64927","Contratar al carcelero.",1688.8,1689.78,{"idx":1596,"utterance_id":1597,"speaker_name":25,"text":1598,"start_s":1599,"end_s":1600,"word_count":48,"indexable":14},265,"64928","Y nosotros preguntamos, ¿ellos conversan?",1690.18,1691.94,{"idx":1602,"utterance_id":1603,"speaker_name":25,"text":1604,"start_s":1605,"end_s":1606,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},266,"64929","No, no conversan.",1692,1692.8,{"idx":1608,"utterance_id":1609,"speaker_name":25,"text":1610,"start_s":1611,"end_s":1612,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},267,"64930","El poder judicial tiene un número, una estadística sobre los presos, el ejecutivo tiene otro número.",1693.52,1697.6,{"idx":1614,"utterance_id":1615,"speaker_name":25,"text":1616,"start_s":1617,"end_s":1618,"word_count":123,"indexable":14},268,"64931","Solo que si yo quisiera disciplinar al ejecutivo, el poder judicial diría: soy un poder independiente.",1698.54,1703.8,{"idx":1620,"utterance_id":1621,"speaker_name":25,"text":1622,"start_s":1623,"end_s":1624,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},269,"64932","Y lo es.",1703.94,1704.44,{"idx":1626,"utterance_id":1627,"speaker_name":25,"text":1628,"start_s":1629,"end_s":1630,"word_count":80,"indexable":14},270,"64933","Quien tiene que hacer eso es un cambio; el Congreso tendría que tocar la Constitución para dar la idea de un sistema.",1705.4,1712.14,{"idx":1632,"utterance_id":1633,"speaker_name":25,"text":1634,"start_s":1635,"end_s":1636,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},271,"64934","Donde no haya subordinación, que un poder mande sobre el otro, sino que se coordinen esfuerzos.",1712.68,1717.66,{"idx":1638,"utterance_id":1639,"speaker_name":25,"text":1640,"start_s":1641,"end_s":1642,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},272,"64935","Eso es complejo.",1717.74,1718.56,{"idx":1644,"utterance_id":1645,"speaker_name":25,"text":1646,"start_s":1647,"end_s":1648,"word_count":62,"indexable":14},273,"64936","Y ahí me preguntas la segunda cuestión.",1719,1721,{"idx":1650,"utterance_id":1651,"speaker_name":25,"text":1652,"start_s":1653,"end_s":1654,"word_count":69,"indexable":14},274,"64937","¿La Policía Federal puede tener un papel más activo?",1721.36,1723.32,{"idx":1656,"utterance_id":1657,"speaker_name":25,"text":1658,"start_s":1659,"end_s":1660,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},275,"64938","Puede.",1723.48,1723.82,{"idx":1662,"utterance_id":1663,"speaker_name":25,"text":1664,"start_s":1665,"end_s":1666,"word_count":94,"indexable":14},276,"64939","Actualmente la Policía Federal no tiene estructura para asumir más actividades.",1725.66,1730.68,{"idx":1668,"utterance_id":1669,"speaker_name":25,"text":1670,"start_s":1671,"end_s":1672,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},277,"64940","Conceptualmente.",1731.02,1731.72,{"idx":1674,"utterance_id":1675,"speaker_name":25,"text":1676,"start_s":1677,"end_s":1678,"word_count":123,"indexable":14},278,"64941","Pero definirlo como lo hizo en 2003, cuando eligió la corrupción como... principal bandera de su actuación.",1731.84,1740.5,{"idx":1680,"utterance_id":1681,"speaker_name":25,"text":1682,"start_s":1683,"end_s":1684,"word_count":87,"indexable":14},279,"64942","Hoy, la Policía Federal no necesitaría ocuparse de puertos, aeropuertos, fronteras, porque podría crear fuerzas especializadas, como existen en otros países.",1741.14,1748.64,{"idx":1686,"utterance_id":1687,"speaker_name":25,"text":1688,"start_s":1689,"end_s":1690,"word_count":100,"indexable":14},280,"64943","Dejarla para cuestiones de policía judicial, efectivamente, para trabajar con delitos que involucran milicias.",1749.2,1756,{"idx":1692,"utterance_id":1693,"speaker_name":25,"text":1694,"start_s":1695,"end_s":1696,"word_count":128,"indexable":14},281,"64944","que es importante, porque hay que ir más allá, y ayudar a proveer tecnología, sobre todo metodologías de trabajo.",1756.42,1763.82,{"idx":1698,"utterance_id":1699,"speaker_name":25,"text":1700,"start_s":1701,"end_s":1702,"word_count":112,"indexable":14},282,"64945","Entonces la Policía Federal puede y debe hacer un trabajo más activo de integración y coordinación.",1763.86,1768.46,{"idx":1704,"utterance_id":1705,"speaker_name":25,"text":1706,"start_s":1707,"end_s":1708,"word_count":74,"indexable":14},283,"64946","Pero para que podamos hacer eso, necesito desahogar... Liberar contingente para eso.",1768.9,1775.86,{"idx":1710,"utterance_id":1711,"speaker_name":25,"text":1712,"start_s":1713,"end_s":1714,"word_count":156,"indexable":14},284,"64947","No solo contratar más, sino quizás crear otras instituciones que se ocupen, por ejemplo, de cuidar aeropuertos, cuidar puertos, cuidar fronteras.",1776.02,1786.04,{"idx":1716,"utterance_id":1717,"speaker_name":25,"text":1718,"start_s":1719,"end_s":1720,"word_count":80,"indexable":14},285,"64948","Porque de la forma en que se hace hoy, la Policía Federal tiene un equipo supercalificado, pero que no da abasto con la tarea.",1786.08,1792.92,{"idx":1722,"utterance_id":1723,"speaker_name":25,"text":1724,"start_s":1725,"end_s":1726,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},286,"64949","Professor Renato, muchas gracias por tu participación.",1793.04,1808.74,"es",{"job_id":1729,"title":1730,"source_url":1731,"platform":1732,"content_type":1733,"published_at":1734,"duration_sec":1735,"n_classified":1736,"speakers":1737},"80c63091-4ac5-4ce0-8908-84ec9679ea85","allTV - Painel Haddad (05\u002F08\u002F2019) - Fernando Haddad entrevista Renato Sérgio de Lima","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=I9GGU5TtSrY","youtube","video","2019-08-05T22:58:48Z",1808.741625,287,[1738],{"name":8,"slug":9,"n_falas":317},"https:\u002F\u002Fi.ytimg.com\u002Fvi\u002FI9GGU5TtSrY\u002Fhqdefault.jpg",{"limit":67,"offset":6,"topics":1741,"total":1784},[1742,1746,1750,1754,1759,1764,1768,1772,1776,1780],{"label":1743,"n_speakers":170,"n_utterances":1744,"n_videos":1147,"slug":1745},"Seguridad Nacional",2695,"seguranca-nacional",{"label":1747,"n_speakers":46,"n_utterances":1748,"n_videos":1380,"slug":1749},"Educación",1685,"educacao",{"label":1751,"n_speakers":87,"n_utterances":1752,"n_videos":1470,"slug":1753},"Seguridad pública y orden",1580,"seguranca-publica-e-ordem",{"label":1755,"n_speakers":212,"n_utterances":1756,"n_videos":1757,"slug":1758},"Combate a la Impunidad",1469,292,"combate-a-impunidade",{"label":1760,"n_speakers":46,"n_utterances":1761,"n_videos":1762,"slug":1763},"Política monetaria",1448,303,"politica-monetaria",{"label":1765,"n_speakers":87,"n_utterances":1766,"n_videos":901,"slug":1767},"Poder judicial",846,"poder-judiciario",{"label":1769,"n_speakers":156,"n_utterances":1770,"n_videos":1075,"slug":1771},"Servicio Público",788,"servico-publico",{"label":1773,"n_speakers":164,"n_utterances":1774,"n_videos":841,"slug":1775},"Salud Pública \u002F Seguridad Pública",756,"saude-publica-seguranca-publica",{"label":1777,"n_speakers":156,"n_utterances":1778,"n_videos":1188,"slug":1779},"Política social",684,"politica-social",{"label":1781,"n_speakers":80,"n_utterances":1782,"n_videos":812,"slug":1783},"Reforma fiscal",671,"reforma-fiscal",625,{"limit":67,"offset":6,"speakers":1786,"total":234},[1787,1801,1813,1822,1830,1841,1852,1860,1867,1878],{"slug":1788,"name":1789,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1790,"n_speeches":1791,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1792,"photo_url":1796,"bio_short":1790,"wikidata_id":1797,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1799},"renan-santos","Renan Santos","",22525,[1793,1794,1795],"Abuso de Autoridad","Acciones afirmativas","Acción ejecutiva","\u002Fprofiles\u002Frenan-santos\u002Fphoto.png","Q51882553","none",{"twitter":1800},"@RenanSantosMBL",{"slug":1802,"name":1803,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1804,"n_speeches":1805,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1806,"photo_url":1809,"bio_short":1790,"wikidata_id":1810,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1811},"romeu-zema","Romeu Zema","MG",12888,[1795,1807,1808],"Activismo político","Afiliación Partidaria","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fromeu-zema\u002Fphoto.png","Q57092113",{"twitter":1812},"@RomeuZema",{"slug":1814,"name":1815,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1790,"n_speeches":1816,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1817,"bio_short":1790,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1819},"pablo-marcal","Pablo Marçal",12772,[1818,1795,1807],"Acción Humanitaria",{"twitter":1820,"youtube":1821},"@pablomarcal","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002F@pablomarcall",{"slug":9,"name":8,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1823,"n_speeches":1824,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1825,"bio_short":1790,"wikidata_id":1828,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1829},"SP",12647,[1808,1826,1827],"Agricultura y agronegocio","Alianzas políticas","Q3069485",{},{"slug":1831,"name":1832,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1833,"n_speeches":1834,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1835,"photo_url":1837,"bio_short":1790,"wikidata_id":1838,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1839},"ronaldo-caiado","Ronaldo Caiado","GO",12538,[1794,1808,1836],"Agenda Pública","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fronaldo-caiado\u002Fphoto.png","Q10364348",{"twitter":1840},"@ronaldocaiado",{"slug":1842,"name":1843,"party":1790,"role":1844,"state":1823,"n_speeches":1845,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1846,"photo_url":1848,"bio_short":1790,"wikidata_id":1849,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1850},"tarcisio","Tarcisio","Governador",11298,[1847,1808,1836],"Actos Legislativos Locales","\u002Fprofiles\u002Ftarcisio\u002Fphoto.png","Q60392579",{"twitter":1851},"tarcisiogdf",{"slug":1853,"name":1854,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1790,"n_speeches":1855,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1856,"photo_url":1857,"bio_short":1790,"wikidata_id":1858,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1859},"luis-inacio-lula-da-silva","Luis Inacio Lula da Silva",10531,[1807,1808,1826],"\u002Fprofiles\u002Fluis-inacio-lula-da-silva\u002Fphoto.png","Q37181",{},{"slug":1861,"name":1862,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1790,"n_speeches":1863,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1864,"bio_short":1790,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1866},"augusto-cury","Augusto Cury",8912,[1795,1826,1865],"Agro y desarrollo regional",{},{"slug":1868,"name":1869,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1823,"n_speeches":1870,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1871,"photo_url":1874,"bio_short":1790,"wikidata_id":1875,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1876},"kim-kataguiri","Kim Kataguiri",8748,[1872,1795,1873],"Abono Salarial","Activismo judicial","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fkim-kataguiri\u002Fphoto.png","Q21715169",{"twitter":1877},"@KimKataguiri",{"slug":1879,"name":1880,"party":1790,"role":1790,"state":1881,"n_speeches":1882,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1883,"photo_url":1885,"bio_short":1790,"wikidata_id":1886,"mandate_status":1798,"social_links":1887},"flavio-bolsonaro","Flavio Bolsonaro","RJ",8066,[1884,1795,1807],"Acción de oposición","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fflavio-bolsonaro\u002Fphoto.png","Q10283057",{"twitter":1888},"@FlavioBolsonaro"]