[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":-1},["ShallowReactive",2],{"footer-top-topics-es":3,"transcript-2fb68987-35ac-4fa8-bbdb-74022e641364-es":65,"transcript-poster-2fb68987-35ac-4fa8-bbdb-74022e641364":1818,"footer-top-speakers-es":1819},{"limit":4,"offset":5,"topics":6,"total":64},10,0,[7,13,19,25,31,36,41,47,53,58],{"label":8,"n_speakers":9,"n_utterances":10,"n_videos":11,"slug":12},"Seguridad Nacional",26,2695,190,"seguranca-nacional",{"label":14,"n_speakers":15,"n_utterances":16,"n_videos":17,"slug":18},"Educación",32,1685,229,"educacao",{"label":20,"n_speakers":21,"n_utterances":22,"n_videos":23,"slug":24},"Seguridad pública y orden",23,1580,244,"seguranca-publica-e-ordem",{"label":26,"n_speakers":27,"n_utterances":28,"n_videos":29,"slug":30},"Combate a la Impunidad",33,1469,292,"combate-a-impunidade",{"label":32,"n_speakers":15,"n_utterances":33,"n_videos":34,"slug":35},"Política monetaria",1448,303,"politica-monetaria",{"label":37,"n_speakers":21,"n_utterances":38,"n_videos":39,"slug":40},"Poder judicial",846,149,"poder-judiciario",{"label":42,"n_speakers":43,"n_utterances":44,"n_videos":45,"slug":46},"Servicio Público",28,788,178,"servico-publico",{"label":48,"n_speakers":49,"n_utterances":50,"n_videos":51,"slug":52},"Salud Pública \u002F Seguridad Pública",25,756,139,"saude-publica-seguranca-publica",{"label":54,"n_speakers":43,"n_utterances":55,"n_videos":56,"slug":57},"Política social",684,197,"politica-social",{"label":59,"n_speakers":60,"n_utterances":61,"n_videos":62,"slug":63},"Reforma fiscal",22,671,134,"reforma-fiscal",625,{"falas":66,"lang":1806,"meta":1807},[67,76,83,89,95,101,107,113,119,125,131,136,142,149,155,163,169,176,183,190,196,201,206,212,217,223,228,233,239,244,250,255,260,265,270,276,282,288,294,300,306,311,317,322,328,334,340,346,352,358,364,370,376,382,388,394,400,406,412,418,424,430,436,442,448,454,460,466,472,478,484,490,496,502,508,514,520,526,532,538,544,550,556,562,568,574,580,586,592,598,604,610,616,622,628,634,640,646,652,658,664,670,676,682,688,694,700,706,712,718,724,730,736,742,748,754,760,766,772,778,784,790,796,802,808,814,820,826,832,838,844,850,856,862,868,872,878,884,890,896,901,907,913,919,925,931,937,943,949,955,960,966,972,978,984,990,996,1002,1008,1014,1020,1026,1032,1038,1044,1050,1056,1062,1068,1074,1080,1086,1092,1098,1104,1110,1116,1122,1128,1133,1139,1145,1151,1157,1163,1169,1175,1181,1187,1193,1199,1204,1210,1216,1222,1228,1234,1240,1245,1251,1257,1263,1269,1275,1281,1287,1293,1299,1305,1311,1317,1323,1329,1335,1341,1347,1353,1359,1365,1371,1377,1383,1389,1395,1401,1407,1413,1419,1425,1431,1436,1442,1448,1454,1460,1466,1472,1478,1484,1490,1496,1502,1508,1514,1520,1525,1531,1537,1543,1549,1555,1561,1567,1573,1579,1585,1591,1597,1603,1609,1615,1621,1627,1633,1639,1645,1651,1657,1663,1669,1675,1681,1687,1693,1699,1705,1711,1717,1723,1729,1735,1741,1747,1753,1759,1765,1771,1777,1783,1789,1795,1801],{"idx":5,"utterance_id":68,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":71,"start_s":72,"end_s":73,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},"64086","Fernando Haddad","fernando-haddad","Hola, internauta.",10.06,11.02,2,false,{"idx":77,"utterance_id":78,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":79,"start_s":80,"end_s":81,"word_count":82,"indexable":75},1,"64087","Mi invitado de hoy es profesor, filósofo, director general del Instituto Democratize, coordinador nacional del MTST, miembro de la frente Povo Sem Medo y candidato en 2018 a la presidencia de la República.",11.62,26.86,30,{"idx":74,"utterance_id":84,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":85,"start_s":86,"end_s":87,"word_count":88,"indexable":75},"64088","Buenas noches, Boulos.",29.9,30.58,3,{"idx":88,"utterance_id":90,"speaker_name":91,"text":92,"start_s":93,"end_s":94,"word_count":88,"indexable":75},"64089","Desconhecido","Buenas noches, Haddad.",30.8,31.3,{"idx":96,"utterance_id":97,"speaker_name":91,"text":98,"start_s":99,"end_s":100,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},4,"64090","¿Todo bien?",31.4,31.62,{"idx":102,"utterance_id":103,"speaker_name":91,"text":104,"start_s":105,"end_s":106,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},5,"64091","¿Cómo estás?",31.66,32.26,{"idx":108,"utterance_id":109,"speaker_name":91,"text":110,"start_s":111,"end_s":112,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},6,"64092","Un gusto estar aquí contigo.",32.82,33.88,{"idx":114,"utterance_id":115,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":116,"start_s":117,"end_s":118,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},7,"64093","Muy bueno.",34.04,34.42,{"idx":120,"utterance_id":121,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":122,"start_s":123,"end_s":124,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},8,"64094","Déjame empezar con un dato biográfico para entender.",34.46,37.58,{"idx":126,"utterance_id":127,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":128,"start_s":129,"end_s":130,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},9,"64095","¿Cómo te sitúas?",38.64,40.06,{"idx":4,"utterance_id":132,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":133,"start_s":134,"end_s":135,"word_count":15,"indexable":75},"64096","Te has formado en la Universidad de São Paulo, si no me equivoco, en filosofía, y eres coordinador de un movimiento importante, de un movimiento social importante vinculado al área de la vivienda.",40.5,52.68,{"idx":137,"utterance_id":138,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":139,"start_s":140,"end_s":141,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},11,"64097","¿Cómo se estableció esa conexión?",53.36,55.18,{"idx":143,"utterance_id":144,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":145,"start_s":146,"end_s":147,"word_count":148,"indexable":75},12,"64098","¿Cómo migraste, o no, porque sigues siendo profesor, pero cómo abriste los ojos a la realidad social brasileña y te interesaste hasta el punto de liderar?",55.42,66.78,31,{"idx":150,"utterance_id":151,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":152,"start_s":153,"end_s":154,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},13,"64099","El movimiento de esa expresión.",67.32,68.54,{"idx":156,"utterance_id":157,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":160,"start_s":161,"end_s":162,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},14,"64100","Guilherme Boulos","guilherme-boulos","Mira, Dade, primero, desde muy joven comencé a interesarme por la lucha social.",69.52,76.6,{"idx":164,"utterance_id":165,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":166,"start_s":167,"end_s":168,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},15,"64101","En el liceo, en el gremio estudiantil, en la escuela secundaria.",77.22,80.9,{"idx":170,"utterance_id":171,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":172,"start_s":173,"end_s":174,"word_count":175,"indexable":75},16,"64102","Y de algún modo abrí los ojos a la realidad social brasileña, porque es una cuestión de tener ojos para ver.",82.4,88.6,20,{"idx":177,"utterance_id":178,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":179,"start_s":180,"end_s":181,"word_count":182,"indexable":75},17,"64103","La desigualdad en Brasil es algo tan escandaloso, está tan expresada en cada esquina, en cada paso que damos, que... Creo que la pregunta, a veces, que no nos hacemos es cómo la gente no se indigna.",89.2,101.86,42,{"idx":184,"utterance_id":185,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":186,"start_s":187,"end_s":188,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},18,"64104","Y, a veces, cuando alguien se indigna y hace de eso un sentido de vida, eso ya es un caso aparte.",102.56,109.46,21,{"idx":191,"utterance_id":192,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":193,"start_s":194,"end_s":195,"word_count":191,"indexable":75},19,"64105","Eso tal vez sea ya un poco síntoma de una crisis ética, de un agujero por el que atraviesa nuestra sociedad.",110.34,116.9,{"idx":175,"utterance_id":197,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":198,"start_s":199,"end_s":200,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},"64106","Ver a tanta gente, a un niño en el semáforo, ver a alguien tirado en medio de la calle sin hogar, eso está naturalizado.",117.22,124.36,{"idx":189,"utterance_id":202,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":203,"start_s":204,"end_s":205,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},"64107","Fueron varios.",125.3,125.82,{"idx":60,"utterance_id":207,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":208,"start_s":209,"end_s":210,"word_count":211,"indexable":75},"64108","Momentos, varias situaciones que presencié, vengo de una familia de clase media, mis padres son médicos, en las que empecé a decir: \"bueno, hay que hacer algo al respecto, no puede ser, no puede ser, es muy brutal\".",126.22,140.12,40,{"idx":21,"utterance_id":213,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":214,"start_s":215,"end_s":216,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},"64109","¿Y cómo ocurrió ese paso?",141.34,144.4,{"idx":218,"utterance_id":219,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":220,"start_s":221,"end_s":222,"word_count":43,"indexable":75},24,"64110","El primer paso que encontré: yo estaba en la escuela, decidí estudiar en una escuela pública, la secundaria, dije: \"no, voy a estudiar en una escuela pública\".",144.7,153.88,{"idx":49,"utterance_id":224,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":225,"start_s":226,"end_s":227,"word_count":15,"indexable":75},"64111","Fui a estudiar a una escuela pública, empecé a participar en el gremio estudiantil de la escuela, comencé a actuar en el movimiento estudiantil, en esa época me afilié a la juventud comunista y tomé contacto con otros movimientos.",154.28,167.08,{"idx":9,"utterance_id":229,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":230,"start_s":231,"end_s":232,"word_count":211,"indexable":75},"64112","Una cosa que me molestó mucho, y que aún me molesta un poco en parte de la izquierda, es una enorme tendencia a hablar de la realidad del pueblo, a hablar en nombre del pueblo, pero muchas veces no vivirla ni estar allí.",167.9,182.86,{"idx":234,"utterance_id":235,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":236,"start_s":237,"end_s":238,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},27,"64113","para comprobar esa realidad.",183.82,185.1,{"idx":43,"utterance_id":240,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":241,"start_s":242,"end_s":243,"word_count":191,"indexable":75},"64114","Y fui primero; el Movimento Sem Terra, en esa época, estaba en un ascenso muy fuerte, haciendo la marcha nacional.",185.9,191.98,{"idx":245,"utterance_id":246,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":247,"start_s":248,"end_s":249,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},29,"64115","Eso fue en 1997, 1998.",192.02,195.06,{"idx":82,"utterance_id":251,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":252,"start_s":253,"end_s":254,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},"64116","Y fui, organizaba en las escuelas donaciones para el Movimento Sem Terra y tal.",196.16,200.76,{"idx":148,"utterance_id":256,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":257,"start_s":258,"end_s":259,"word_count":191,"indexable":75},"64117","Y un poco después de eso, el MTST entró en la ciudad de São Paulo, en la región metropolitana de São Paulo.",201.26,207.84,{"idx":15,"utterance_id":261,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":262,"start_s":263,"end_s":264,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},"64118","Eso fue ya en 2001.",208.52,209.96,{"idx":27,"utterance_id":266,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":267,"start_s":268,"end_s":269,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},"64119","Entonces fui a una ocupación.",210.64,211.78,{"idx":271,"utterance_id":272,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":273,"start_s":274,"end_s":275,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},34,"64120","En Guarulhos vi el potencial que tenía aquello, la autenticidad.",212.2,215.42,{"idx":277,"utterance_id":278,"speaker_name":91,"text":279,"start_s":280,"end_s":281,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},35,"64121","¿Recuerdas a algún líder de la época que te llamara la atención?",215.48,218.36,{"idx":283,"utterance_id":284,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":285,"start_s":286,"end_s":287,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},36,"64122","Sí, había muchas lideranzas que venían.",218.66,220.54,{"idx":289,"utterance_id":290,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":291,"start_s":292,"end_s":293,"word_count":184,"indexable":75},37,"64123","Jota, un amigo mío, fue un líder, uno de los fundadores del MTST; Zezito, había varias lideranzas...",221.04,228.04,{"idx":295,"utterance_id":296,"speaker_name":91,"text":297,"start_s":298,"end_s":299,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},38,"64124","Aquí en São Paulo.",229.62,230.62,{"idx":301,"utterance_id":302,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":303,"start_s":304,"end_s":305,"word_count":164,"indexable":75},39,"64125","Todos de aquí de São Paulo, que estaban en la primera línea de esa lucha en ese momento.",230.78,237.48,{"idx":211,"utterance_id":307,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":308,"start_s":309,"end_s":310,"word_count":177,"indexable":75},"64126","Y entonces decidí... Poco después, en 2002, en una ocupación en Osasco, decidí vivir en una ocupación.",238.14,244.1,{"idx":312,"utterance_id":313,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":314,"start_s":315,"end_s":316,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},41,"64127","Y fui, monté mi barraco, me quedé viviendo en la ocupación.",244.72,247.66,{"idx":182,"utterance_id":318,"speaker_name":91,"text":319,"start_s":320,"end_s":321,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},"64128","Y ahí... Así comienza tu militancia.",248.58,250.38,{"idx":323,"utterance_id":324,"speaker_name":91,"text":325,"start_s":326,"end_s":327,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},43,"64129","Llevo 18 años en el MTST.",250.62,252.26,{"idx":329,"utterance_id":330,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":331,"start_s":332,"end_s":333,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},44,"64130","Me gustaría que explicaras un poco la lógica del movimiento de vivienda.",253.1,256.84,{"idx":335,"utterance_id":336,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":337,"start_s":338,"end_s":339,"word_count":175,"indexable":75},45,"64131","Porque la gente, incluso por el discurso oficial actual, tiene un gobierno muy hostil a cualquier gesto de resistencia social.",256.96,265.9,{"idx":341,"utterance_id":342,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":343,"start_s":344,"end_s":345,"word_count":234,"indexable":75},46,"64132","A cualquier... lucha por derechos; es un gobierno que, declaradamente —no lo digo de forma despectiva—, tiene esa característica.",266.48,275.42,{"idx":347,"utterance_id":348,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":349,"start_s":350,"end_s":351,"word_count":137,"indexable":75},47,"64133","¿Cómo se organiza en la práctica el movimiento de vivienda?",275.78,279.16,{"idx":353,"utterance_id":354,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":355,"start_s":356,"end_s":357,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},48,"64134","¿Cómo interviene en la realidad, con qué objetivos?",280.12,284.02,{"idx":359,"utterance_id":360,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":361,"start_s":362,"end_s":363,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},49,"64135","¿Cómo garantiza la democracia interna, para que no haya caciques, aprovechados?",284.16,290.92,{"idx":365,"utterance_id":366,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":367,"start_s":368,"end_s":369,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},50,"64136","¿Cómo ocurre eso?",291,292.28,{"idx":371,"utterance_id":372,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":373,"start_s":374,"end_s":375,"word_count":295,"indexable":75},51,"64137","Ese es un punto importante, Haddad, porque si miras hoy en las redes, y las redes se han convertido en grandes propulsoras de un nuevo tipo de comunicación, pero, por otro lado, también en grandes propulsoras de fake news, de mentiras.",292.7,306.32,{"idx":377,"utterance_id":378,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":379,"start_s":380,"end_s":381,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},52,"64138","Lo que se oye es: \"pues, Boulos, el MTST va a invadir tu casa\".",307.88,311.46,{"idx":383,"utterance_id":384,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":385,"start_s":386,"end_s":387,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},53,"64139","Ese movimiento ahí, van a tomar lo que es tuyo.",312.64,315.26,{"idx":389,"utterance_id":390,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":391,"start_s":392,"end_s":393,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},54,"64140","Es una banda de vagos que no trabajan, que quiere quitar lo que es de otros.",315.42,318.46,{"idx":395,"utterance_id":396,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":397,"start_s":398,"end_s":399,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},55,"64141","Se infló un prejuicio... que siempre existió contra el movimiento social y que fue ganando proporciones muy grandes en el último periodo.",319.46,326.22,{"idx":401,"utterance_id":402,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":403,"start_s":404,"end_s":405,"word_count":21,"indexable":75},56,"64142","Por eso siempre es bueno que tengamos la oportunidad de explicar quiénes son esas personas y qué hace el movimiento social.",326.26,332.32,{"idx":407,"utterance_id":408,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":409,"start_s":410,"end_s":411,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},57,"64143","Alguien que va a una ocupación no va porque le gusta, ni porque no trabaja, ni porque quiere quitar lo que es de otros.",333.1,339.9,{"idx":413,"utterance_id":414,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":415,"start_s":416,"end_s":417,"word_count":170,"indexable":75},58,"64144","Quien va a una ocupación va principalmente por falta de alternativas y muchas veces por desesperación.",340.26,345.3,{"idx":419,"utterance_id":420,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":421,"start_s":422,"end_s":423,"word_count":413,"indexable":75},59,"64145","Yo, en 18 años conviviendo en el MTST, conociendo a la gente en las ocupaciones, pisando el barro junto con ellas, pude conocer muchas historias de vida, de gente que trabajó toda la vida, gente que empezó a trabajar a los 14 años y que llega a los 70 en una ocupación sin haber tenido nunca la oportunidad de una vivienda propia.",346,364.92,{"idx":425,"utterance_id":426,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":427,"start_s":428,"end_s":429,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},60,"64146","Porque trabajar en nuestro país no significa que la persona pueda vivir dignamente.",364.96,369.14,{"idx":431,"utterance_id":432,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":433,"start_s":434,"end_s":435,"word_count":137,"indexable":75},61,"64147","Muchas veces es un trabajo precario, es un trabajo mal remunerado.",369.62,373.2,{"idx":437,"utterance_id":438,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":439,"start_s":440,"end_s":441,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},62,"64148","Es un trabajo que, si el tipo intenta entrar al banco para financiar una casa, no pasa de la puerta giratoria.",373.66,379.72,{"idx":443,"utterance_id":444,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":445,"start_s":446,"end_s":447,"word_count":347,"indexable":75},63,"64149","Eso es lo que les ocurre a millones de personas en Brasil, que pagan alquiler sin poder, que a fin de mes tienen que tomar la dura decisión entre pagar el alquiler o comprar la leche del niño, que viven de favor en la casa de alguien y sufren humillación.",381.26,395.88,{"idx":449,"utterance_id":450,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":451,"start_s":452,"end_s":453,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},64,"64150","Y en la práctica, ¿cómo ocurre la cosa?",396.44,398.46,{"idx":455,"utterance_id":456,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":457,"start_s":458,"end_s":459,"word_count":175,"indexable":75},65,"64151","El movimiento organiza a esas familias que están en una situación... de falta de vivienda, que están en una situación de sin techo.",398.52,404.36,{"idx":461,"utterance_id":462,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":463,"start_s":464,"end_s":465,"word_count":184,"indexable":75},66,"64152","Y la elección del terreno o del edificio a ser ocupado es una elección que sigue varios criterios.",405.06,412.48,{"idx":467,"utterance_id":468,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":469,"start_s":470,"end_s":471,"word_count":177,"indexable":75},67,"64153","El movimiento no va a ocupar la casa de nadie, eso es un absurdo, eso es una mentira.",413.96,417.52,{"idx":473,"utterance_id":474,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":475,"start_s":476,"end_s":477,"word_count":21,"indexable":75},68,"64154","El movimiento ocupa grandes terrenos abandonados, en situación ilegal, porque no cumplen la función social establecida por la Constitución y por el Estatuto de la Ciudad.",417.94,426.14,{"idx":479,"utterance_id":480,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":481,"start_s":482,"end_s":483,"word_count":148,"indexable":75},69,"64155","Terrenos que muchas veces deben millones al poder público, porque ni siquiera pagan su IPTU, que están ahí para la especulación inmobiliaria, no cumplen el plan director, no cumplen ninguna regulación urbana.",427.16,439.94,{"idx":485,"utterance_id":486,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":487,"start_s":488,"end_s":489,"word_count":9,"indexable":75},70,"64156","Y el área ocupada, en ese sentido, es para presionar al poder público para destinarla... conforme el Estatuto de la Ciudad, la legislación existente, destinarla a vivienda popular.",440.64,451.2,{"idx":491,"utterance_id":492,"speaker_name":91,"text":493,"start_s":494,"end_s":495,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},71,"64157","Es decir, en el fondo es un movimiento para que se cumpla la ley.",451.34,453.68,{"idx":497,"utterance_id":498,"speaker_name":91,"text":499,"start_s":500,"end_s":501,"word_count":77,"indexable":75},72,"64158","Exactamente.",453.82,454.46,{"idx":503,"utterance_id":504,"speaker_name":91,"text":505,"start_s":506,"end_s":507,"word_count":88,"indexable":75},73,"64159","Es lo contrario.",454.5,455.28,{"idx":509,"utterance_id":510,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":511,"start_s":512,"end_s":513,"word_count":184,"indexable":75},74,"64160","Porque la ley en Brasil, Adadinho, tú sabes bien eso, hay leyes que se aplican y otras que no.",456,459.92,{"idx":515,"utterance_id":516,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":517,"start_s":518,"end_s":519,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},75,"64161","Es verdad.",460.3,460.76,{"idx":521,"utterance_id":522,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":523,"start_s":524,"end_s":525,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},76,"64162","Una ley que enfrenta grandes intereses económicos suele no aplicarse.",460.98,463.86,{"idx":527,"utterance_id":528,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":529,"start_s":530,"end_s":531,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},77,"64163","Se aplica el Estatuto de la Ciudad.",464.04,465.02,{"idx":533,"utterance_id":534,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":535,"start_s":536,"end_s":537,"word_count":170,"indexable":75},78,"64164","Recuerdo que nosotros hicimos esa discusión en la propuesta, en la aprobación del plan director.",465.54,469.38,{"idx":539,"utterance_id":540,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":541,"start_s":542,"end_s":543,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},79,"64165","Estatuto de la Ciudad, está muy claro ahí.",470.04,472.38,{"idx":545,"utterance_id":546,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":547,"start_s":548,"end_s":549,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},80,"64166","Un terreno tiene que cumplir la función social.",473.02,474.52,{"idx":551,"utterance_id":552,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":553,"start_s":554,"end_s":555,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},81,"64167","No la cumple.",475.1,475.72,{"idx":557,"utterance_id":558,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":559,"start_s":560,"end_s":561,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},82,"64168","La prefeitura notifica.",476.46,477.48,{"idx":563,"utterance_id":564,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":565,"start_s":566,"end_s":567,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},83,"64169","Después de notificar, pasa a incurrir en un IPTU progresivo por hasta cinco años.",478.24,483.3,{"idx":569,"utterance_id":570,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":571,"start_s":572,"end_s":573,"word_count":191,"indexable":75},84,"64170","Después de cinco años, con el impuesto progresivo, si el tipo no hizo nada: expropiación, sanción con título de deuda pública.",484,489.96,{"idx":575,"utterance_id":576,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":577,"start_s":578,"end_s":579,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},85,"64171","El poder público puede tomar ese terreno y destinarlo a la vivienda popular.",490.2,493.12,{"idx":581,"utterance_id":582,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":583,"start_s":584,"end_s":585,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},86,"64172","Eso está en la ley.",493.62,494.22,{"idx":587,"utterance_id":588,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":589,"start_s":590,"end_s":591,"word_count":164,"indexable":75},87,"64173","La mayor parte de los municipios no hace eso, que está relacionado, incluso, con esos tipos.",494.82,500.5,{"idx":593,"utterance_id":594,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":595,"start_s":596,"end_s":597,"word_count":137,"indexable":75},88,"64174","por financiamiento de campaña con especuladores inmobiliarios y grandes constructoras.",501.12,504.98,{"idx":599,"utterance_id":600,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":601,"start_s":602,"end_s":603,"word_count":271,"indexable":75},89,"64175","Recuerdo que en la aprobación del plan director, en su gestión se hizo una amplia notificación de esos terrenos para que empezara a correr el plazo, cosa que no se había hecho antes.",505.74,514.22,{"idx":605,"utterance_id":606,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":607,"start_s":608,"end_s":609,"word_count":60,"indexable":75},90,"64176","¿Cómo ves la lucha social en este próximo período en el que, incluso, existe un movimiento de criminalización del movimiento social?",514.26,522.04,{"idx":611,"utterance_id":612,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":613,"start_s":614,"end_s":615,"word_count":218,"indexable":75},91,"64177","Es decir, falta dinero para subsidios por un lado y el gobierno no propone ninguna solución al problema, salvo... la criminalización.",522.26,531.42,{"idx":617,"utterance_id":618,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":619,"start_s":620,"end_s":621,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},92,"64178","¿Cómo se resuelve esa contradicción?",532.96,534.24,{"idx":623,"utterance_id":624,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":625,"start_s":626,"end_s":627,"word_count":88,"indexable":75},93,"64179","Vamos, Haddad.",534.86,535.46,{"idx":629,"utterance_id":630,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":631,"start_s":632,"end_s":633,"word_count":177,"indexable":75},94,"64180","Primero, ya hubo un aumento del déficit habitacional como consecuencia del vaciamiento de la política pública de vivienda.",536.08,543.26,{"idx":635,"utterance_id":636,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":637,"start_s":638,"end_s":639,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},95,"64181","Porque esto no empezó ahora con este desgobierno de Bolsonaro.",543.32,545.94,{"idx":641,"utterance_id":642,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":643,"start_s":644,"end_s":645,"word_count":15,"indexable":75},96,"64182","Michel Temer fue haciendo eso y, seamos justos, desde 2015, cuando Levi inicia un ajuste fiscal en el gobierno de Dilma, ya hubo una reducción drástica en la inversión de la franja 1.",546.12,556.02,{"idx":647,"utterance_id":648,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":649,"start_s":650,"end_s":651,"word_count":170,"indexable":75},97,"64183","Temer con Meirelles lo llevan a pan y agua y Bolsonaro prácticamente lo acaba.",556.3,562.8,{"idx":653,"utterance_id":654,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":655,"start_s":656,"end_s":657,"word_count":27,"indexable":75},98,"64184","Este es el escenario que tenemos: un declive de la inversión pública en vivienda que, desde 2009, cuando Lula creó Minha Casa Minha Vida, pasó a depender en gran medida del gobierno federal.",563.72,573.78,{"idx":659,"utterance_id":660,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":661,"start_s":662,"end_s":663,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},99,"64185","Y los programas municipales y estatales se convirtieron en complementarios al gobierno federal.",574.72,578.4,{"idx":665,"utterance_id":666,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":667,"start_s":668,"end_s":669,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},100,"64186","Los datos están ahí.",578.9,579.52,{"idx":671,"utterance_id":672,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":673,"start_s":674,"end_s":675,"word_count":218,"indexable":75},101,"64187","Ya salió de la FGV el estudio del déficit habitacional: llegamos al mayor déficit de los últimos 10 años, 7 millones 800 mil familias.",579.66,588.58,{"idx":677,"utterance_id":678,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":679,"start_s":680,"end_s":681,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},102,"64188","Déficit habitacional.",589.22,589.76,{"idx":683,"utterance_id":684,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":685,"start_s":686,"end_s":687,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},103,"64189","Ese número es el último, es el más reciente.",589.8,591.36,{"idx":689,"utterance_id":690,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":691,"start_s":692,"end_s":693,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},104,"64190","Es el que salió hace dos meses en el estudio de la Fundação Getúlio Vargas.",591.4,594.26,{"idx":695,"utterance_id":696,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":697,"start_s":698,"end_s":699,"word_count":43,"indexable":75},105,"64191","Hay un dato que se recopiló: salió un artículo en Folha de São Paulo la semana pasada sobre el crecimiento de la población en situación de calle en São Paulo.",594.96,602.54,{"idx":701,"utterance_id":702,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":703,"start_s":704,"end_s":705,"word_count":170,"indexable":75},106,"64192","Creció un 66% la población en situación de calle identificada en São Paulo.",603.16,608.84,{"idx":707,"utterance_id":708,"speaker_name":91,"text":709,"start_s":710,"end_s":711,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},107,"64193","Es un dato oficial de la alcaldía, nadie lo está inventando.",608.98,612.5,{"idx":713,"utterance_id":714,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":715,"start_s":716,"end_s":717,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},108,"64194","Entonces ya se está empezando a sentir.",612.76,614.46,{"idx":719,"utterance_id":720,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":721,"start_s":722,"end_s":723,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},109,"64195","Porque es una combinación explosiva.",614.78,616.08,{"idx":725,"utterance_id":726,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":727,"start_s":728,"end_s":729,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},110,"64196","Aumenta el desempleo.",617.06,617.9,{"idx":731,"utterance_id":732,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":733,"start_s":734,"end_s":735,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},111,"64197","La persona que queda desempleada no va a poder pagar el alquiler.",618.72,621.52,{"idx":737,"utterance_id":738,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":739,"start_s":740,"end_s":741,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},112,"64198","Se convierte en una persona sin techo.",622.28,623.48,{"idx":743,"utterance_id":744,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":745,"start_s":746,"end_s":747,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},113,"64199","O la renta cae y su trabajo se precariza.",623.64,626.58,{"idx":749,"utterance_id":750,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":751,"start_s":752,"end_s":753,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},114,"64200","Entonces, ejerce presión por un lado.",626.98,628.28,{"idx":755,"utterance_id":756,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":757,"start_s":758,"end_s":759,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},115,"64201","Por otro lado, lo que podría atender eso, que es la política pública, está seca.",628.74,632.58,{"idx":761,"utterance_id":762,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":763,"start_s":764,"end_s":765,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},116,"64202","Esto es una combinación explosiva.",633.78,635.34,{"idx":767,"utterance_id":768,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":769,"start_s":770,"end_s":771,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},117,"64203","Que debe generar, inevitablemente, procesos de reacción, de movilización y de ocupaciones.",635.9,643.68,{"idx":773,"utterance_id":774,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":775,"start_s":776,"end_s":777,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},118,"64204","Las ocupaciones no ocurren porque los movimientos las quieran.",644.2,646.66,{"idx":779,"utterance_id":780,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":781,"start_s":782,"end_s":783,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},119,"64205","Las ocupaciones ocurren porque las personas no tienen otra alternativa.",647.22,650.92,{"idx":785,"utterance_id":786,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":787,"start_s":788,"end_s":789,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},120,"64206","¿Qué le corresponde al movimiento social?",651.88,653.36,{"idx":791,"utterance_id":792,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":793,"start_s":794,"end_s":795,"word_count":283,"indexable":75},121,"64207","Organizar a esas personas que ahora están sin nada por un desgobierno que no tiene preocupación por la política pública, y al mismo tiempo buscar abrir canales para transformar eso en nuevas formas de política pública.",654,669.32,{"idx":797,"utterance_id":798,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":799,"start_s":800,"end_s":801,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},122,"64208","Por ejemplo, estamos proponiendo un proyecto de lote urbanizado, que vuelva al trabajo comunitario.",669.6,676.3,{"idx":803,"utterance_id":804,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":805,"start_s":806,"end_s":807,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},123,"64209","que cuente con la participación de las familias.",677.04,679.04,{"idx":809,"utterance_id":810,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":811,"start_s":812,"end_s":813,"word_count":164,"indexable":75},124,"64210","Estamos proponiendo otras formas y otras alternativas para lidiar con esta sequía de política habitacional.",679.62,686.08,{"idx":815,"utterance_id":816,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":817,"start_s":818,"end_s":819,"word_count":49,"indexable":75},125,"64211","Ahora, mencionaste, y con mucha razón, que eso viene junto, por la índole de este gobierno de Bolsonaro, con el proceso de criminalización de las luchas sociales.",686.38,698.46,{"idx":821,"utterance_id":822,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":823,"start_s":824,"end_s":825,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},126,"64212","Estamos viviendo ahora en la ciudad de São Paulo un episodio de detenciones",698.5,702.64,{"idx":827,"utterance_id":828,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":829,"start_s":830,"end_s":831,"word_count":377,"indexable":75},127,"64213","de militantes del Movimento de Moradia, Preta Ferreira, la más conocida de las militantes que fueron detenidas, la propia Carmen, las dos del Movimento Sem Teto do Centro, de la Ocupação 9 de Julho, personas serias, luchadoras, que fueron acusadas de extorsión dentro de una investigación abierta por la Policía Civil de São Paulo.",703.1,724.72,{"idx":833,"utterance_id":834,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":835,"start_s":836,"end_s":837,"word_count":234,"indexable":75},128,"64214","Sabiendo que, evidentemente, esa investigación fue abierta a partir de esa... esa tragedia anunciada, pero que ocurrió en el Largo do Paissandu, el año pasado, el 1 de mayo.",725.34,737.02,{"idx":839,"utterance_id":840,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":841,"start_s":842,"end_s":843,"word_count":164,"indexable":75},129,"64215","Hubo denuncias, después del derrumbe del edificio, de que había un proceso de extorsión hacia las familias.",738.1,743.2,{"idx":845,"utterance_id":846,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":847,"start_s":848,"end_s":849,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},130,"64216","Y lo sabemos muy bien: oportunistas hay por todas partes.",743.94,746.84,{"idx":851,"utterance_id":852,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":853,"start_s":854,"end_s":855,"word_count":49,"indexable":75},131,"64217","El otro día estaba en un debate, me preguntaron: ¿hay gente en el movimiento sin techo que explota, que es oportunista, que se aprovecha?",747.18,754.5,{"idx":857,"utterance_id":858,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":859,"start_s":860,"end_s":861,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},132,"64218","No conozco ningún lugar que no tenga.",755.16,756.58,{"idx":863,"utterance_id":864,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":865,"start_s":866,"end_s":867,"word_count":43,"indexable":75},133,"64219","Es importante que digas, Boulos, porque la gente necesita comprender que el propio movimiento quiere depurarse cuando identifica un elemento extraño a sus principios, a sus valores.",757.8,772.24,{"idx":62,"utterance_id":869,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":367,"start_s":870,"end_s":871,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},"64220",772.68,773.72,{"idx":873,"utterance_id":874,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":875,"start_s":876,"end_s":877,"word_count":329,"indexable":75},135,"64221","Ahora, al mismo tiempo, Haddad, creo que tampoco podemos aceptar que se presente el movimiento de vivienda como un azote, porque hay muchos más oportunistas por metro cuadrado en este país en el Congreso Nacional que en cualquier ocupación, en cualquier movimiento social de Brasil.",773.76,785.24,{"idx":879,"utterance_id":880,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":881,"start_s":882,"end_s":883,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},136,"64222","Hay en todas partes.",786.04,786.7,{"idx":885,"utterance_id":886,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":887,"start_s":888,"end_s":889,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},137,"64223","Y no por eso vas a defender cerrar el Congreso Nacional.",786.74,788.3,{"idx":891,"utterance_id":892,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":893,"start_s":894,"end_s":895,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},138,"64224","Hay muchos más oportunistas en el poder judicial.",788.34,790.22,{"idx":51,"utterance_id":897,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":898,"start_s":899,"end_s":900,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},"64225","como está mostrando The Intercept, que en el movimiento social de vivienda.",790.6,795.06,{"idx":902,"utterance_id":903,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":904,"start_s":905,"end_s":906,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},140,"64226","Y no por eso vamos a estar en contra de una institución.",795.1,797.22,{"idx":908,"utterance_id":909,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":910,"start_s":911,"end_s":912,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},141,"64227","Hay que saber respetar el movimiento y separar el trigo de la cizaña.",797.7,800.42,{"idx":914,"utterance_id":915,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":916,"start_s":917,"end_s":918,"word_count":164,"indexable":75},142,"64228","Entonces, ¿qué se está haciendo en esta investigación que arrestó a Preta, en mi opinión?",800.9,804.78,{"idx":920,"utterance_id":921,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":922,"start_s":923,"end_s":924,"word_count":182,"indexable":75},143,"64229","Lo que se está haciendo es tomar la situación de un caso, de una denuncia en el Largo do Paissandu, en la que se encuentra a un oportunista y extender eso... a otros casos, como si todo el mundo y todas esas lideranzas fueran oportunistas.",805.2,819.4,{"idx":926,"utterance_id":927,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":928,"start_s":929,"end_s":930,"word_count":271,"indexable":75},144,"64230","Ese es un proceso de criminalización que desvirtúa un problema real que necesita ser combatido y acaba no separando el trigo de la cizaña y deteniendo a personas que son luchadoras y que no deberían estar presas.",820.02,831.72,{"idx":932,"utterance_id":933,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":934,"start_s":935,"end_s":936,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},145,"64231","¿Ves indicios de que se pueden aprovechar de esto para ampliar y criminalizar?",831.92,838.42,{"idx":938,"utterance_id":939,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":940,"start_s":941,"end_s":942,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},146,"64232","A Preta Ferreira, la propia carne, yo las conozco.",838.56,841.24,{"idx":944,"utterance_id":945,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":946,"start_s":947,"end_s":948,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},147,"64233","Y no conozco nada que las desacredite.",841.7,844.34,{"idx":950,"utterance_id":951,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":952,"start_s":953,"end_s":954,"word_count":9,"indexable":75},148,"64234","Hasta donde sé son personas muy serias, luchadoras, que defienden una causa y en el caso de Preta está presa injustamente en este momento, en esa generalización indebida.",844.78,853.5,{"idx":39,"utterance_id":956,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":957,"start_s":958,"end_s":959,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},"64235","¿Tienes miedo del gobierno, Boulos?",853.54,855.9,{"idx":961,"utterance_id":962,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":963,"start_s":964,"end_s":965,"word_count":245,"indexable":75},150,"64236","¿Tienes recelo de que... miedo quizá sea una palabra demasiado fuerte para alguien que es un líder como tú, pero tienes temor de que eso pueda afectarte?",855.94,868.52,{"idx":967,"utterance_id":968,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":969,"start_s":970,"end_s":971,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},151,"64237","¿a ti o a personas cercanas a ti de manera injusta, de manera arbitraria?",869,874.34,{"idx":973,"utterance_id":974,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":975,"start_s":976,"end_s":977,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},152,"64238","¿Tienes temor del crecimiento de la arbitrariedad en Brasil?",874.9,878,{"idx":979,"utterance_id":980,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":981,"start_s":982,"end_s":983,"word_count":177,"indexable":75},153,"64239","Mira, creo que quien no esté preocupado por esto no está entendiendo lo que está pasando.",878.4,881.74,{"idx":985,"utterance_id":986,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":987,"start_s":988,"end_s":989,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},154,"64240","No sólo la dirigencia de movimientos sociales, sino también las dirigencias políticas.",882.72,887.16,{"idx":991,"utterance_id":992,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":993,"start_s":994,"end_s":995,"word_count":177,"indexable":75},155,"64241","Lula está preso como resultado de un proceso arbitrario que cada día queda más claro.",887.8,894.52,{"idx":997,"utterance_id":998,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":999,"start_s":1000,"end_s":1001,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},156,"64242","Es impresionante, Haddad, cómo ese escándalo de... de The Intercept, que en cualquier",895.34,900.94,{"idx":1003,"utterance_id":1004,"speaker_name":91,"text":1005,"start_s":1006,"end_s":1007,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},157,"64243","parte del",901.08,901.52,{"idx":1009,"utterance_id":1010,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1011,"start_s":1012,"end_s":1013,"word_count":335,"indexable":75},158,"64244","mundo, la actuación parcial de un juez comprobada, de un juez haciendo conluio con la acusación para detener a una persona, actuando como asesor de prensa de la acusación, actuando como consejero de la acusación, ese ciudadano, si fuera ministro de Justicia en cualquier parte, ya habría caído.",901.62,921.2,{"idx":1015,"utterance_id":1016,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1017,"start_s":1018,"end_s":1019,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},159,"64245","Y si un ex presidente de la República hubiera sido detenido en este proceso de connivencia en cualquier otra parte, ya habría sido liberado.",921.76,928.24,{"idx":1021,"utterance_id":1022,"speaker_name":91,"text":1023,"start_s":1024,"end_s":1025,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},160,"64246","Es impresionante",928.82,930.1,{"idx":1027,"utterance_id":1028,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1029,"start_s":1030,"end_s":1031,"word_count":359,"indexable":75},161,"64247","el grado de anomia democrática que tenemos hoy en Brasil, que hace que Lula continúe preso, que las Cortes Superiores no hayan recogido todos los hechos que están sobre la mesa y liberado a Lula, y que hace que Moro continúe como ministro de Justicia.",930.7,945.52,{"idx":1033,"utterance_id":1034,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1035,"start_s":1036,"end_s":1037,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},162,"64248","Es señal de la crisis democrática que vivimos.",945.6,948.32,{"idx":1039,"utterance_id":1040,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1041,"start_s":1042,"end_s":1043,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},163,"64249","Lula, me parece extraño, quería tu opinión.",948.44,950.6,{"idx":1045,"utterance_id":1046,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1047,"start_s":1048,"end_s":1049,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},164,"64250","¿Qué está pasando en Brasil?",950.9,952.66,{"idx":1051,"utterance_id":1052,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1053,"start_s":1054,"end_s":1055,"word_count":170,"indexable":75},165,"64251","En tu opinión, no estoy aquí para dar la mía, estoy aquí para escuchar la tuya.",953.06,957.04,{"idx":1057,"utterance_id":1058,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1059,"start_s":1060,"end_s":1061,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},166,"64252","¿Qué explica este proceso?",957.78,959.46,{"idx":1063,"utterance_id":1064,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1065,"start_s":1066,"end_s":1067,"word_count":283,"indexable":75},167,"64253","Sabes, Haddad, muchas veces nos preguntamos, yo me pregunté, en el proceso electoral, vivimos ese proceso electoral como parte activa, pero después del proceso electoral, ¿cómo llegamos a este punto?",960.86,977.7,{"idx":1069,"utterance_id":1070,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1071,"start_s":1072,"end_s":1073,"word_count":283,"indexable":75},168,"64254","Cómo es que un ciudadano, ex capitán de la reserva, defensor de la dictadura militar, que enaltece torturadores, que decía en la campaña electoral, en un país como el nuestro, que el trabajador iba a tener que elegir entre empleo y derechos.",978.66,998.1,{"idx":1075,"utterance_id":1076,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1077,"start_s":1078,"end_s":1079,"word_count":271,"indexable":75},169,"64255","¿Cómo es que un tipo así se convierte en presidente de la República y consigue llevar un clamor de sectores de la sociedad para defenderlo y continuar apoyando su gobierno, incluso después de estos seis meses desastrosos?",999.54,1012.6,{"idx":1081,"utterance_id":1082,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1083,"start_s":1084,"end_s":1085,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},170,"64256","Creo que fue un encuentro de crisis.",1014.14,1016.56,{"idx":1087,"utterance_id":1088,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1089,"start_s":1090,"end_s":1091,"word_count":43,"indexable":75},171,"64257","sabes que en un momento llegué a pensar, carajo, ¿será que Brasil viró tanto hacia la extrema derecha, hacia el fascismo, estamos en eso?",1017.56,1024.46,{"idx":1093,"utterance_id":1094,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1095,"start_s":1096,"end_s":1097,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},172,"64258","Hubo un hecho que me ayudó a entender un poco la situación.",1025.22,1027.56,{"idx":1099,"utterance_id":1100,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1101,"start_s":1102,"end_s":1103,"word_count":365,"indexable":75},173,"64259","Algunos días antes de la primera vuelta de la elección, estaba llegando a casa, después de ese debate al que fuimos en Río, en TV Globo, faltaba un día para la elección, había hecho campaña, estaba llegando a casa, paré el coche en un semáforo, de noche, en la estrada do Campo Limpo.",1027.84,1043.74,{"idx":1105,"utterance_id":1106,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1107,"start_s":1108,"end_s":1109,"word_count":175,"indexable":75},174,"64260","Y entonces vino, había un joven en el coche de al lado, me reconoció, golpeó la ventanilla y me pidió que la bajara.",1044.8,1049.28,{"idx":1111,"utterance_id":1112,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1113,"start_s":1114,"end_s":1115,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},175,"64261","Bajé la ventanilla, él dijo: ¿eres Boulos?",1049.86,1051.96,{"idx":1117,"utterance_id":1118,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1119,"start_s":1120,"end_s":1121,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},176,"64262","Yo dije: soy Boulos.",1052.36,1053.42,{"idx":1123,"utterance_id":1124,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1125,"start_s":1126,"end_s":1127,"word_count":21,"indexable":75},177,"64263","Oye, me gustó lo que dijiste, tocaste la llaga, estuviste bien en el debate, me gustó lo que dijiste.",1053.78,1059.54,{"idx":45,"utterance_id":1129,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1130,"start_s":1131,"end_s":1132,"word_count":137,"indexable":75},"64264","Si no fuera a votar por Bolsonaro, votaría por ti.",1059.78,1061.8,{"idx":1134,"utterance_id":1135,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1136,"start_s":1137,"end_s":1138,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},179,"64265","Ahí pensé, en el momento me puse furioso, ¿qué es esto?",1063.82,1066.46,{"idx":1140,"utterance_id":1141,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1142,"start_s":1143,"end_s":1144,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},180,"64266","Pensé, ¿qué había allí?",1067.08,1069,{"idx":1146,"utterance_id":1147,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1148,"start_s":1149,"end_s":1150,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},181,"64267","Ese chico, ese joven, no era fascista.",1070.12,1073.42,{"idx":1152,"utterance_id":1153,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1154,"start_s":1155,"end_s":1156,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},182,"64268","No era de extrema derecha, era un joven de la periferia de São Paulo, pobre.",1074,1077.44,{"idx":1158,"utterance_id":1159,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1160,"start_s":1161,"end_s":1162,"word_count":184,"indexable":75},183,"64269","¿Qué pasó por su cabeza y por la de otras millones de personas para sostener y llevar esa ola?",1079.48,1085.68,{"idx":1164,"utterance_id":1165,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1166,"start_s":1167,"end_s":1168,"word_count":323,"indexable":75},184,"64270","Creo que, por un lado, estuvo el resultado de la crisis económica, que viene desde 2008, que se fue profundizando a partir de 2014, 2015, sobre todo con una opción de ajuste fiscal, que fue dejando a las personas desesperanzadas respecto al futuro, Haddad.",1086.68,1103.38,{"idx":1170,"utterance_id":1171,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1172,"start_s":1173,"end_s":1174,"word_count":234,"indexable":75},185,"64271","Encontré a una señora allá en Recife, también en la campaña, en una palafita, que me dijo: antes estaba segura de que mi hijo iba a vivir mejor que yo.",1103.44,1112.52,{"idx":1176,"utterance_id":1177,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1178,"start_s":1179,"end_s":1180,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},186,"64272","Hoy no sé qué va a pasar la semana que viene.",1113.22,1114.74,{"idx":1182,"utterance_id":1183,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1184,"start_s":1185,"end_s":1186,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},187,"64273","La gente empezó a darse cuenta de que el castillo se derrumbó.",1116.82,1120.94,{"idx":1188,"utterance_id":1189,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1190,"start_s":1191,"end_s":1192,"word_count":312,"indexable":75},188,"64274","Y creo que un mensaje que dejó la crisis de 2008 para todo el mundo, porque esa ola de extrema derecha no fue sólo aquí, fue un mensaje: mira, ahora, en esta nueva fase del capitalismo, no hay lugar para todos.",1122.8,1133.14,{"idx":1194,"utterance_id":1195,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1196,"start_s":1197,"end_s":1198,"word_count":137,"indexable":75},189,"64275","Fue un desencanto respecto a las perspectivas que se habían generado.",1135.12,1138.78,{"idx":11,"utterance_id":1200,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1201,"start_s":1202,"end_s":1203,"word_count":82,"indexable":75},"64276","Pero junta esa crisis económica con una crisis política de representación, con la gente que no se siente representada por el sistema político, que también es un fenómeno internacional en cierta medida.",1139.86,1150.72,{"idx":1205,"utterance_id":1206,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1207,"start_s":1208,"end_s":1209,"word_count":182,"indexable":75},191,"64277","Se toma el 15M en España, los procesos en Turquía, se toma lo que pasó con todas las complejidades y contradicciones también en junio de 2013; aquí había también un caldo de agitación política, de insatisfacción con todo y con todos.",1150.8,1165.18,{"idx":1211,"utterance_id":1212,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1213,"start_s":1214,"end_s":1215,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},192,"64278","Italia y esos procesos que no nos representan, que tienen un fondo de verdad.",1166.66,1174.9,{"idx":1217,"utterance_id":1218,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1219,"start_s":1220,"end_s":1221,"word_count":191,"indexable":75},193,"64279","Porque hay una crisis real en las democracias liberales de representación, de apropiación del Estado por las grandes corporaciones.",1174.94,1182.54,{"idx":1223,"utterance_id":1224,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1225,"start_s":1226,"end_s":1227,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},194,"64280","Evidentemente, hay una crisis.",1183.94,1185.34,{"idx":1229,"utterance_id":1230,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1231,"start_s":1232,"end_s":1233,"word_count":60,"indexable":75},195,"64281","Vivimos hoy en Brasil, y Bolsonaro es subproducto de ello: una crisis del presidencialismo de coalición, del sistema de la nueva república.",1185.5,1192.24,{"idx":1235,"utterance_id":1236,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1237,"start_s":1238,"end_s":1239,"word_count":88,"indexable":75},196,"64282","Eso es visible.",1192.32,1193.28,{"idx":56,"utterance_id":1241,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1242,"start_s":1243,"end_s":1244,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},"64283","La Lava Jato potenció eso aquí al extremo.",1194.06,1197.78,{"idx":1246,"utterance_id":1247,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1248,"start_s":1249,"end_s":1250,"word_count":277,"indexable":75},198,"64284","La Lava Jato generó... y potenció el sentimiento de antipolítica, de rechazo a la política, lo que creó las condiciones para que apareciera alguien como Bolsonaro, un tipo que fuera el salvador de la patria, un tipo que pusiera orden en la casa.",1198.6,1216.76,{"idx":1252,"utterance_id":1253,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1254,"start_s":1255,"end_s":1256,"word_count":27,"indexable":75},199,"64285","Entonces juntas esa crisis económica, crisis política, con el brote de violencia urbana en el país, que pedía mano dura, alguien que dijera que va a dar armas, que va a detener, a matar delincuentes.",1217.28,1230.1,{"idx":1258,"utterance_id":1259,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1260,"start_s":1261,"end_s":1262,"word_count":164,"indexable":75},200,"64286","Todo eso fue creando un caldo para que un ciudadano como ese se convirtiera en presidente de la República.",1231.24,1235.76,{"idx":1264,"utterance_id":1265,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1266,"start_s":1267,"end_s":1268,"word_count":137,"indexable":75},201,"64287","No es, pura y simplemente, un giro ideológico hacia la extrema derecha.",1236.56,1243.76,{"idx":1270,"utterance_id":1271,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1272,"start_s":1273,"end_s":1274,"word_count":49,"indexable":75},202,"64288","Creo que eso sería un error y no nos ayudaría a pensar qué tenemos que hacer ahora, los desafíos que tenemos.",1243.8,1249.06,{"idx":1276,"utterance_id":1277,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1278,"start_s":1279,"end_s":1280,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},203,"64289","Que no es el desafío de lidiar con 57 millones de fascistas.",1249.72,1254.22,{"idx":1282,"utterance_id":1283,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1284,"start_s":1285,"end_s":1286,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},204,"64290","No tenemos eso en Brasil.",1254.46,1255.4,{"idx":1288,"utterance_id":1289,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1290,"start_s":1291,"end_s":1292,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},205,"64291","Ahora, un extra.",1255.92,1256.54,{"idx":1294,"utterance_id":1295,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1296,"start_s":1297,"end_s":1298,"word_count":234,"indexable":75},206,"64292","¿Qué representa él de ese pasado nuestro que vuelve con fuerza, aparentemente, y qué es expresión de un contexto global de crisis del capitalismo internacional?",1258.1,1268.7,{"idx":1300,"utterance_id":1301,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1302,"start_s":1303,"end_s":1304,"word_count":218,"indexable":75},207,"64293","Creo que Bolsonaro es resultado de múltiples factores, de un encuentro desgraciado de circunstancias, aquello que Maquiavelo llamaba la fortuna en la historia.",1269.54,1281,{"idx":1306,"utterance_id":1307,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1308,"start_s":1309,"end_s":1310,"word_count":60,"indexable":75},208,"64294","Toma ese fenómeno internacional de la crisis económica, de la crisis política; toma, evidentemente, la retirada de Lula del proceso electoral de manera arbitraria.",1282.96,1293.28,{"idx":1312,"utterance_id":1313,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1314,"start_s":1315,"end_s":1316,"word_count":191,"indexable":75},209,"64295","Toma el hecho de que la violencia urbana haya tenido una explosión: el último atlas de la violencia, 65 mil homicidios en 2017.",1294.22,1304.6,{"idx":1318,"utterance_id":1319,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1320,"start_s":1321,"end_s":1322,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},210,"64296","Fue el dato más reciente que tenemos.",1305.38,1307.52,{"idx":1324,"utterance_id":1325,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1326,"start_s":1327,"end_s":1328,"word_count":43,"indexable":75},211,"64297","Y eso con programas de final de tarde todos los días, exudando sangre, diciendo que necesitamos algo duro, necesitamos más... Más policía, más palizas, más prisión.",1308.12,1318.26,{"idx":1330,"utterance_id":1331,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1332,"start_s":1333,"end_s":1334,"word_count":164,"indexable":75},212,"64298","Y toma, no tengo la menor duda, ese vector de un pasado nunca superado.",1320.88,1330.66,{"idx":1336,"utterance_id":1337,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1338,"start_s":1339,"end_s":1340,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},213,"64299","¿En qué medida la izquierda está o no preparada para retomar un protagonismo político?",1331.18,1336.52,{"idx":1342,"utterance_id":1343,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1344,"start_s":1345,"end_s":1346,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},214,"64300","Creo que hay dos aspectos de este debate que quisiera tocar.",1336.7,1340.52,{"idx":1348,"utterance_id":1349,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1350,"start_s":1351,"end_s":1352,"word_count":347,"indexable":75},215,"64301","Uno de ellos es que... Creo que la izquierda latinoamericana, sobre todo, tuvo una oportunidad en el precrisis, en la primera década del siglo XXI, de hacer transformaciones más estructurales en el sistema, que tal vez, de venir la crisis, esa izquierda podría reaccionar con más condiciones, con más respaldo del que quedó.",1341.36,1371.16,{"idx":1354,"utterance_id":1355,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1356,"start_s":1357,"end_s":1358,"word_count":9,"indexable":75},216,"64302","Por lo siguiente... Y aquí vamos a usar naturalmente el ejemplo de la experiencia de gobierno de Lula, de Dilma, de los 13 años de gobierno del PT (Partido de los Trabajadores) en Brasil.",1371.7,1381.04,{"idx":1360,"utterance_id":1361,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1362,"start_s":1363,"end_s":1364,"word_count":371,"indexable":75},217,"64303","Fue un período de reducción de la pobreza, fue un período de políticas sociales extremadamente importantes; usted participó de eso como parte del gobierno, en las políticas de educación, pero en el conjunto de las áreas se tuvieron avances importantes para nuestro pueblo, sobre todo para la gente más pobre, y eso está en la memoria popular.",1381.96,1400.46,{"idx":1366,"utterance_id":1367,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1368,"start_s":1369,"end_s":1370,"word_count":43,"indexable":75},218,"64304","Ahora, eso se hizo sin enfrentar una opción política o una evaluación política de que no se podía, pero sin confrontar determinadas estructuras arcaicas que permanecieron en nuestro país.",1402.68,1415.2,{"idx":1372,"utterance_id":1373,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1374,"start_s":1375,"end_s":1376,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},219,"64305","Por ejemplo, la del sistema político.",1415.26,1416.48,{"idx":1378,"utterance_id":1379,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1380,"start_s":1381,"end_s":1382,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},220,"64306","No se impulsó una reforma política.",1416.94,1418.5,{"idx":1384,"utterance_id":1385,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1386,"start_s":1387,"end_s":1388,"word_count":177,"indexable":75},221,"64307","Por ejemplo, la del sistema de medios, que permanece profundamente oligopolizado, concentrado, la gran prensa en Brasil.",1419.24,1428.44,{"idx":1390,"utterance_id":1391,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1392,"start_s":1393,"end_s":1394,"word_count":335,"indexable":75},222,"64308","Una escena de Democracia em Vertigem se me quedó en la memoria; usted debe haber visto ya la película, en la que Petra Costa recuerda que poco antes de las manifestaciones de junio de 2013, Dilma va a la TV y da un discurso duro contra los bancos.",1428.54,1452.74,{"idx":1396,"utterance_id":1397,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1398,"start_s":1399,"end_s":1400,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},223,"64309","¿Cree que ahí fue tarde?",1453.02,1455.66,{"idx":1402,"utterance_id":1403,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1404,"start_s":1405,"end_s":1406,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},224,"64310","¿Qué hizo Dilma a partir de 2012?",1455.88,1458.06,{"idx":1408,"utterance_id":1409,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1410,"start_s":1411,"end_s":1412,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},225,"64311","que muestra el documental.",1458.9,1460.2,{"idx":1414,"utterance_id":1415,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1416,"start_s":1417,"end_s":1418,"word_count":295,"indexable":75},226,"64312","Creo que el enfrentamiento a los intereses de los bancos, que es reducir el spread bancario, fue lo que ella hizo, y usar los bancos públicos para reducir las tasas de interés es algo sumamente acertado, algo necesario.",1460.56,1471.32,{"idx":1420,"utterance_id":1421,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1422,"start_s":1423,"end_s":1424,"word_count":191,"indexable":75},227,"64313","¿Cuál fue la parte que creo que fue un error y ayudó a crear un problema fiscal?",1471.98,1476.26,{"idx":1426,"utterance_id":1427,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1428,"start_s":1429,"end_s":1430,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},228,"64314","Las exoneraciones.",1476.7,1477.42,{"idx":17,"utterance_id":1432,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1433,"start_s":1434,"end_s":1435,"word_count":27,"indexable":75},"64315","Esos miles de millones de reales en exoneraciones para las grandes empresas, sin ninguna contrapartida en empleo, que muchas de ellas enviaron a su matriz allá en Estados Unidos para hacer caja en el período de crisis.",1478.2,1488.22,{"idx":1437,"utterance_id":1438,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1439,"start_s":1440,"end_s":1441,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},230,"64316","Creo que eso fue un problema.",1488.92,1490.36,{"idx":1443,"utterance_id":1444,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1445,"start_s":1446,"end_s":1447,"word_count":218,"indexable":75},231,"64317","Ahora, la política de ese enfrentamiento creo que era necesaria y debería haberse llevado con más firmeza hasta las últimas consecuencias.",1491.22,1498.86,{"idx":1449,"utterance_id":1450,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1451,"start_s":1452,"end_s":1453,"word_count":271,"indexable":75},232,"64318","Ahora, la burguesía brasileña es, de algún modo —y ahí retoma un punto que usted tocó cuando hablábamos de la elección de Bolsonaro—, ¿lleva aún tanto un sesgo de la 'casa grande'?",1499.22,1511.86,{"idx":1455,"utterance_id":1456,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1457,"start_s":1458,"end_s":1459,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},233,"64319","Es la gente del cuarto de servicio.",1512.62,1514.46,{"idx":1461,"utterance_id":1462,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1463,"start_s":1464,"end_s":1465,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},234,"64320","Es la gente del ascensor de servicio.",1514.94,1516.2,{"idx":1467,"utterance_id":1468,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1469,"start_s":1470,"end_s":1471,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},235,"64321","Sousa ha hecho una lectura muy precisa sobre eso.",1516.24,1520.32,{"idx":1473,"utterance_id":1474,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1475,"start_s":1476,"end_s":1477,"word_count":329,"indexable":75},236,"64322","Es un grupo que piensa y carga con un resabio histórico respecto al mínimo ascenso de los más pobres, que incluso en un proceso en el que ellos ganaron, y Lula solía decir con énfasis: 'en mi gobierno, los bancos ganaron, los empresarios ganaron, los ingenieros ganaron'.",1521.04,1539.4,{"idx":1479,"utterance_id":1480,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1481,"start_s":1482,"end_s":1483,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},237,"64323","Incluso en un proceso en el que ella ganó, ella trabajó.",1539.66,1542.78,{"idx":1485,"utterance_id":1486,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1487,"start_s":1488,"end_s":1489,"word_count":21,"indexable":75},238,"64324","En el momento en que ese proceso, en el segundo mandato de Dilma, tuvo una fragilidad con la pérdida de popularidad, ella trabajó para destrozarlo.",1543.86,1551.98,{"idx":1491,"utterance_id":1492,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1493,"start_s":1494,"end_s":1495,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},239,"64325","¿Cómo ve usted el acuerdo Mercosur-Unión Europea en ese sentido?",1552.64,1556.42,{"idx":1497,"utterance_id":1498,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1499,"start_s":1500,"end_s":1501,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},240,"64326","Creo que es muy preocupante para la soberanía nacional.",1556.9,1559.02,{"idx":1503,"utterance_id":1504,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1505,"start_s":1506,"end_s":1507,"word_count":164,"indexable":75},241,"64327","Ese acuerdo, en la práctica, cambia cuotas agrícolas para Brasil en Europa por apertura total.",1559.82,1568.32,{"idx":1509,"utterance_id":1510,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1511,"start_s":1512,"end_s":1513,"word_count":170,"indexable":75},242,"64328","en industria, en el sector de tecnología punta, ¿cómo va a competir nuestra industria?",1569.18,1572.92,{"idx":1515,"utterance_id":1516,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1517,"start_s":1518,"end_s":1519,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},243,"64329","Servicios también.",1572.96,1573.34,{"idx":23,"utterance_id":1521,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1522,"start_s":1523,"end_s":1524,"word_count":77,"indexable":75},"64330","Servicios.",1573.56,1574.16,{"idx":1526,"utterance_id":1527,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1528,"start_s":1529,"end_s":1530,"word_count":184,"indexable":75},245,"64331","¿Cómo vamos a competir con la industria alemana en tecnología punta, en nivel de inversión?",1574.54,1579.92,{"idx":1532,"utterance_id":1533,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1534,"start_s":1535,"end_s":1536,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},246,"64332","Eso va a matar a la industria automotriz en Brasil.",1579.96,1582.54,{"idx":1538,"utterance_id":1539,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1540,"start_s":1541,"end_s":1542,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},247,"64333","Hoy salió una nota de la industria automotriz europea que está tirando cohetes.",1582.62,1586.72,{"idx":1544,"utterance_id":1545,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1546,"start_s":1547,"end_s":1548,"word_count":102,"indexable":75},248,"64334","Si alguien gana, otro pierde.",1587.68,1588.86,{"idx":1550,"utterance_id":1551,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1552,"start_s":1553,"end_s":1554,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},249,"64335","Esto afectará a los sectores de mayor tecnología, de mayor valor agregado en Brasil.",1589.76,1593.78,{"idx":1556,"utterance_id":1557,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1558,"start_s":1559,"end_s":1560,"word_count":323,"indexable":75},250,"64336","Y como era el proyecto del ALCA con respecto a Estados Unidos, echarlo a perder, fortalecer el agronegocio, la minería y el sector primario y, con ello, ir hacia una tendencia que es la continuidad de la reprimarización de la economía brasileña.",1594.72,1610.9,{"idx":1562,"utterance_id":1563,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1564,"start_s":1565,"end_s":1566,"word_count":120,"indexable":75},251,"64337","Es convertir a Brasil en la granja de Europa.",1611.16,1612.98,{"idx":1568,"utterance_id":1569,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1570,"start_s":1571,"end_s":1572,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},252,"64338","Mire, esos términos se estaban negociando desde hace 20 años.",1615.04,1617.4,{"idx":1574,"utterance_id":1575,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1576,"start_s":1577,"end_s":1578,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},253,"64339","¿Por qué ahora se destrabó?",1617.92,1619.06,{"idx":1580,"utterance_id":1581,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1582,"start_s":1583,"end_s":1584,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},254,"64340","Justo en el momento en que Brasil tiene la peor imagen internacional en Europa por causa de los absurdos de Bolsonaro.",1619.98,1626.38,{"idx":1586,"utterance_id":1587,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1588,"start_s":1589,"end_s":1590,"word_count":27,"indexable":75},255,"64341","Se destrabó porque Bolsonaro y Macri, siendo Brasil y Argentina los fieles de la balanza en el Mercosur, aceptaron todas las condiciones europeas, con muchísimas menos contrapartidas de las que se podrían haber obtenido.",1626.82,1637.3,{"idx":1592,"utterance_id":1593,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1594,"start_s":1595,"end_s":1596,"word_count":137,"indexable":75},256,"64342","¿Cómo ve usted lo que está pasando en la educación?",1637.92,1640.8,{"idx":1598,"utterance_id":1599,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1600,"start_s":1601,"end_s":1602,"word_count":150,"indexable":75},257,"64343","Usted, que es profesor y me acompañó, incluso, nosotros estuvimos recorriendo el país.",1641.22,1646.84,{"idx":1604,"utterance_id":1605,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1606,"start_s":1607,"end_s":1608,"word_count":143,"indexable":75},258,"64344","En las universidades, en las escuelas de enseñanza media, existe una efervescencia en el sector educativo.",1647.62,1653.74,{"idx":1610,"utterance_id":1611,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1612,"start_s":1613,"end_s":1614,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},259,"64345","En el caso de la educación, creo que hay dos dimensiones que tenemos que abordar.",1654.46,1660.22,{"idx":1616,"utterance_id":1617,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1618,"start_s":1619,"end_s":1620,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},260,"64346","Una es la cuestión de los recortes, que es seria.",1660.76,1665.12,{"idx":1622,"utterance_id":1623,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1624,"start_s":1625,"end_s":1626,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},261,"64347","Hay universidades que, si los recortes no se revierten totalmente, en septiembre no tendrán dinero para la factura de la luz.",1665.34,1671.62,{"idx":1628,"utterance_id":1629,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1630,"start_s":1631,"end_s":1632,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},262,"64348","para papel higiénico, para funcionar mínimamente.",1672,1675.52,{"idx":1634,"utterance_id":1635,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1636,"start_s":1637,"end_s":1638,"word_count":218,"indexable":75},263,"64349","No sólo las universidades: ellos construyeron una versión mentirosa de que estaban quitando de la educación superior para dar a la educación básica.",1676.04,1682.9,{"idx":1640,"utterance_id":1641,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1642,"start_s":1643,"end_s":1644,"word_count":77,"indexable":75},264,"64350","Mentira.",1683.3,1683.8,{"idx":1646,"utterance_id":1647,"speaker_name":91,"text":1648,"start_s":1649,"end_s":1650,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},265,"64351","Están recortando de todo.",1683.84,1684.52,{"idx":1652,"utterance_id":1653,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1654,"start_s":1655,"end_s":1656,"word_count":4,"indexable":75},266,"64352","Los recortes fueron en la educación básica, fueron en el Instituto Federal.",1684.56,1686.6,{"idx":1658,"utterance_id":1659,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1660,"start_s":1661,"end_s":1662,"word_count":271,"indexable":75},267,"64353","Además, si tuvieran alguna preocupación por la educación básica, estarían debatiendo la renovación del Fundeb con una mayor participación de la Unión, que es la propuesta de consenso hecha por el Parlamento, por movimientos, por la sociedad civil.",1686.68,1697.82,{"idx":1664,"utterance_id":1665,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1666,"start_s":1667,"end_s":1668,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},268,"64354","Gobernadores, alcaldes.",1697.88,1699.22,{"idx":1670,"utterance_id":1671,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1672,"start_s":1673,"end_s":1674,"word_count":77,"indexable":75},269,"64355","Gobernadores.",1699.3,1699.98,{"idx":1676,"utterance_id":1677,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1678,"start_s":1679,"end_s":1680,"word_count":88,"indexable":75},270,"64356","y todo lo demás.",1700.78,1701.24,{"idx":1682,"utterance_id":1683,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1684,"start_s":1685,"end_s":1686,"word_count":211,"indexable":75},271,"64357","Una propuesta, inclusive, firmada por Fátima Bezerra, que consiste en duplicar del 10% al 20% ahora y con un aumento gradual hasta llegar al 40% de la participación de la Unión en el Fundeb, que es el principal fondo de financiación de la educación básica.",1701.28,1713.88,{"idx":1688,"utterance_id":1689,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1690,"start_s":1691,"end_s":1692,"word_count":289,"indexable":75},272,"64358","Entonces, hay un desmantelamiento que muestra un desdén por la educación, un desprecio por la educación pública, sobre todo por la educación superior, que es esa gente que cree que la educación tiene que enseñar a leer, escribir y contar.",1714.52,1726.86,{"idx":1694,"utterance_id":1695,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1696,"start_s":1697,"end_s":1698,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},273,"64359","Eso fue dicho por Bolsonaro y por el actual ministro.",1727.28,1729.44,{"idx":1700,"utterance_id":1701,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1702,"start_s":1703,"end_s":1704,"word_count":353,"indexable":75},274,"64360","Pero hay otra dimensión que también está en disputa ahora y que percibí cuando hice el periplo por Brasil: fui a 15 estados, a más de 25 instituciones educativas, conversando con la juventud, con los profesores y escuchando; no fueron sólo los recortes.",1730.24,1746.8,{"idx":1706,"utterance_id":1707,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1708,"start_s":1709,"end_s":1710,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},275,"64361","Lo que llevó a ese verdadero levantamiento en el mes de mayo por la educación fue una disputa sobre el sentido de la educación brasileña.",1747.54,1754.08,{"idx":1712,"utterance_id":1713,"speaker_name":91,"text":1714,"start_s":1715,"end_s":1716,"word_count":77,"indexable":75},276,"64362","Claro.",1754.12,1754.42,{"idx":1718,"utterance_id":1719,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1720,"start_s":1721,"end_s":1722,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},277,"64363","¿Qué proyecto educativo queremos?",1755.42,1756.92,{"idx":1724,"utterance_id":1725,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1726,"start_s":1727,"end_s":1728,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},278,"64364","Una educación...",1757.58,1758.3,{"idx":1730,"utterance_id":1731,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1732,"start_s":1733,"end_s":1734,"word_count":126,"indexable":75},279,"64365","No es sólo dinero, es dinero y proyecto pedagógico.",1758.82,1761.72,{"idx":1736,"utterance_id":1737,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1738,"start_s":1739,"end_s":1740,"word_count":9,"indexable":75},280,"64366","¿Es una educación que forme un pequeño engranaje para el mercado laboral o una educación que forme para la vida, para la ciudadanía, con espíritu crítico?",1763,1773.12,{"idx":1742,"utterance_id":1743,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1744,"start_s":1745,"end_s":1746,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},281,"64367","¿Queremos a Weintraub o a Paulo Freire?",1773.9,1775.64,{"idx":1748,"utterance_id":1749,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1750,"start_s":1751,"end_s":1752,"word_count":156,"indexable":75},282,"64368","Ese es el debate que está planteado hoy, en cierto modo, que ellos pusieron.",1776.7,1780.68,{"idx":1754,"utterance_id":1755,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1756,"start_s":1757,"end_s":1758,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},283,"64369","porque este debate no estaba planteado.",1780.82,1783.6,{"idx":1760,"utterance_id":1761,"speaker_name":158,"speaker_slug":159,"text":1762,"start_s":1763,"end_s":1764,"word_count":189,"indexable":75},284,"64370","Ellos pusieron el debate de una regresión, Olavo de Carvalho, ideología, todas esas tonterías que atribuyen al debate educativo.",1783.98,1792.88,{"idx":1766,"utterance_id":1767,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1768,"start_s":1769,"end_s":1770,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},285,"64371","Boulos, mucho gusto en tenerlo aquí.",1793.24,1795.48,{"idx":1772,"utterance_id":1773,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1774,"start_s":1775,"end_s":1776,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},286,"64372","Es un honor conversar con usted.",1795.84,1797.28,{"idx":1778,"utterance_id":1779,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1780,"start_s":1781,"end_s":1782,"word_count":9,"indexable":75},287,"64373","Podríamos conversar unas horas más o incluso varios días, hasta con Boulos, pero nuestro tiempo se ha agotado y quiero agradecer muchísimo.",1798.88,1808.54,{"idx":1784,"utterance_id":1785,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1786,"start_s":1787,"end_s":1788,"word_count":114,"indexable":75},288,"64374","Al Guilherme Bolo por el privilegio de esta conversación.",1809.18,1811.26,{"idx":1790,"utterance_id":1791,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1792,"start_s":1793,"end_s":1794,"word_count":108,"indexable":75},289,"64375","Y la semana que viene hay más.",1811.78,1813.26,{"idx":1796,"utterance_id":1797,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1798,"start_s":1799,"end_s":1800,"word_count":96,"indexable":75},290,"64376","Un abrazo para usted.",1813.9,1814.52,{"idx":368,"utterance_id":1802,"speaker_name":69,"speaker_slug":70,"text":1803,"start_s":1804,"end_s":1805,"word_count":74,"indexable":75},"64377","Buenas noches.",1814.96,1818.84,"es",{"job_id":1808,"title":1809,"source_url":1810,"platform":1811,"content_type":1812,"published_at":1813,"duration_sec":1814,"n_classified":29,"speakers":1815},"2fb68987-35ac-4fa8-bbdb-74022e641364","Painel Haddad - Fernando Haddad entrevista Guilherme Boulos","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=75GnUo3ch_M","youtube","video","2019-07-22T22:58:47Z",1818.853938,[1816,1817],{"name":158,"slug":159,"n_falas":1402},{"name":69,"slug":70,"n_falas":377},"https:\u002F\u002Fi.ytimg.com\u002Fvi\u002F75GnUo3ch_M\u002Fhqdefault.jpg",{"limit":4,"offset":5,"speakers":1820,"total":289},[1821,1835,1847,1856,1864,1875,1886,1894,1901,1912],{"slug":1822,"name":1823,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1824,"n_speeches":1825,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1826,"photo_url":1830,"bio_short":1824,"wikidata_id":1831,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1833},"renan-santos","Renan Santos","",22525,[1827,1828,1829],"Abuso de Autoridad","Acciones afirmativas","Acción ejecutiva","\u002Fprofiles\u002Frenan-santos\u002Fphoto.png","Q51882553","none",{"twitter":1834},"@RenanSantosMBL",{"slug":1836,"name":1837,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1838,"n_speeches":1839,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1840,"photo_url":1843,"bio_short":1824,"wikidata_id":1844,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1845},"romeu-zema","Romeu Zema","MG",12888,[1829,1841,1842],"Activismo político","Afiliación Partidaria","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fromeu-zema\u002Fphoto.png","Q57092113",{"twitter":1846},"@RomeuZema",{"slug":1848,"name":1849,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1824,"n_speeches":1850,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1851,"bio_short":1824,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1853},"pablo-marcal","Pablo Marçal",12772,[1852,1829,1841],"Acción Humanitaria",{"twitter":1854,"youtube":1855},"@pablomarcal","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002F@pablomarcall",{"slug":70,"name":69,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1857,"n_speeches":1858,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1859,"bio_short":1824,"wikidata_id":1862,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1863},"SP",12647,[1842,1860,1861],"Agricultura y agronegocio","Alianzas políticas","Q3069485",{},{"slug":1865,"name":1866,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1867,"n_speeches":1868,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1869,"photo_url":1871,"bio_short":1824,"wikidata_id":1872,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1873},"ronaldo-caiado","Ronaldo Caiado","GO",12538,[1828,1842,1870],"Agenda Pública","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fronaldo-caiado\u002Fphoto.png","Q10364348",{"twitter":1874},"@ronaldocaiado",{"slug":1876,"name":1877,"party":1824,"role":1878,"state":1857,"n_speeches":1879,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1880,"photo_url":1882,"bio_short":1824,"wikidata_id":1883,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1884},"tarcisio","Tarcisio","Governador",11298,[1881,1842,1870],"Actos Legislativos Locales","\u002Fprofiles\u002Ftarcisio\u002Fphoto.png","Q60392579",{"twitter":1885},"tarcisiogdf",{"slug":1887,"name":1888,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1824,"n_speeches":1889,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1890,"photo_url":1891,"bio_short":1824,"wikidata_id":1892,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1893},"luis-inacio-lula-da-silva","Luis Inacio Lula da Silva",10531,[1841,1842,1860],"\u002Fprofiles\u002Fluis-inacio-lula-da-silva\u002Fphoto.png","Q37181",{},{"slug":1895,"name":1896,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1824,"n_speeches":1897,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1898,"bio_short":1824,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1900},"augusto-cury","Augusto Cury",8912,[1829,1860,1899],"Agro y desarrollo regional",{},{"slug":1902,"name":1903,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1857,"n_speeches":1904,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1905,"photo_url":1908,"bio_short":1824,"wikidata_id":1909,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1910},"kim-kataguiri","Kim Kataguiri",8748,[1906,1829,1907],"Abono Salarial","Activismo judicial","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fkim-kataguiri\u002Fphoto.png","Q21715169",{"twitter":1911},"@KimKataguiri",{"slug":1913,"name":1914,"party":1824,"role":1824,"state":1915,"n_speeches":1916,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":1917,"photo_url":1919,"bio_short":1824,"wikidata_id":1920,"mandate_status":1832,"social_links":1921},"flavio-bolsonaro","Flavio Bolsonaro","RJ",8066,[1918,1829,1841],"Acción de oposición","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fflavio-bolsonaro\u002Fphoto.png","Q10283057",{"twitter":1922},"@FlavioBolsonaro"]