Video transcript
Renan Santos vê eleitor anestesiado, chama Flávio de ladrão e nega apoios; veja íntegra da sabatina
763 statements · 1 politicians · September 11, 2026 · 54 min
Statements by Renan Santos. 763 transcribed statements, with topic and stance on the ones the analysis classified. Topics: Electoral Process, Political Polarization, Political Alliances, Campaign Financing.
Speakers
Transcript
763 statementsFull transcript of the video. Statements the analysis classified carry topic and stance.
Desconhecido
Hello, good morning, welcome — whether you're female or male — to yet another Sabatina promoted by UOL and Folha de São Paulo, this partnership for Brazilian democracy and the 2026 elections.
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As you know, our mission here is to help you choose who you want at the helm of Brazil for the next four years.
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We invited all the pre-candidates, the candidates for the Presidency of the Republic, to take part in this Sabatina.
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And our candidate today... Today it's Renan Santos, the Missão candidate.
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He is the founder of the Movimento Brasil Livre.
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Renan is 42 years old, is a businessman and the current president of the Missão party, the ticket under which he is running.
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the Presidency of the Republic.
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In the latest poll of voting intentions, he appears with 4% of the vote intentions, technically tied with Ronaldo Caiado; the Meio & Ideia poll was published just yesterday.
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Ahead of them are Augusto Cury, with 6.6%, Flávio Bolsonaro, 37.3%, and Lula, with 38.4%.
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Renan has already lived in Moca, a very traditional neighborhood in São Paulo's East Zone; he enrolled in the Law School at USP but did not finish the course.
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He was affiliated with PSDB; he has a history in Brazilian politics — he was affiliated with PSDB between 2010 and 2015 — but he gained more prominence in politics in 2014 when, alongside Kim Kataguiri, he founded the Movimento Brasil Livre.
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the well-known MBL.
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The movement gained a lot of visibility across Brazil by organizing demonstrations in defense of Operation Lava Jato against Dilma's government.
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He was also one of those responsible for organizing what became known as the Impeachment Committee, which carried forward the process of removing the then-president.
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And today it is he who wants to hold that office — he who wants the Presidency of the Republic.
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With me in this interview, my daily partner Josias de Souza, live from Brasília, and here by my side, Bruno Ribeiro, from the newspaper Folha de São Paulo.
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Hello, Josias, good morning to you.
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Very good morning, good morning to you, Fabíola, good morning to Bruno, a special good morning to candidate Renan Santos — let's go.
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Good morning, Bruno.
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Good morning, Fabíola.
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All right, candidate, a very warm welcome to you here in our UOL studio, good morning, sir.
Good morning, Fabíola.
Good morning, Bruno.
Good morning, Josias.
People I associate with.
It will be a pleasure to have a chat with you.
It'll be really nice.
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Let's go: it's a 50-minute interview, we'll finish with a rapid-fire round and then there will be two minutes for final considerations.
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We'll start the timer at the beginning of your first answer.
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Well, we're following this war at the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal), in flames less than a month from the elections.
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We're less than a month, three weeks away from the elections, and that's what everyone is talking about.
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To what extent will this crisis at the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) affect voters' choices?
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affect the Brazilian electoral process.
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What do you think, sir?
Look, I expected it to be having more of an effect.
I even have a few rants, a few acts of brutal honesty in the past few days, because this is the strangest election since 2010.
2010 was an election very empty of political debate; it was an election in which Serra wanted to present himself as Lula's candidate.
The big event of the election was a small paper ball that was thrown at Serra's head.
And there weren't major discussions, there wasn't much debate.
From the 14th onward, that which we call polarization rises, there's a greater politicization of the debate.
And here we are heading into an election that is designed to be a non-election.
Basically Flávio and Lula want to use their bases to get to the second round without taking part in debates or hearings.
And the voter buys into this state of torpor.
Maybe because he's anesthetized by the gigantic amount of information and scandals.
The scandals have already anesthetized the voter.
The voter is not even discussing.
These events are coming.
I imagine these events will change the dynamics of the elections in the next two weeks.
But until now... There should already have been changes.
And I think this tiredness in the voter is the big political novelty we have.
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Who is harmed more?
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Flávio Bolsonaro, on September 7, says, look, whoever votes for Lula votes for Moraes.
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Moraes is in a very complicated situation, they'll decide now on Tuesday whether he will be investigated or not.
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Who is harmed more, Lula or Flávio, by this crisis of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) and by this decision that the plenary may make on Tuesday?
For now, Lula.
For now, Lula.
Let's see what comes out of Flávio and let's see how Flávio's voter reacts to that.
I repeat, there's something very new and very strange in this election.
This torpor is a major novelty.
And it's such a strange torpor, I return to this, because polarization is taking place merely, let's say, numerically in the polls.
You have here Lula's block and Bolsonaro's block.
But there's no discussion among the fans, the followers of each one.
Lula's campaign is an empty campaign.
Lula's social networks are empty.
You don't find people in bars defending him, nor for Flávio either.
It's a campaign that was built to be emptied.
And then, in this emptying, what we have is... Both groups are denying what's happening and don't even have much energy to throw stones at the opponent.
It's the strangest campaign I've seen in a long time.
Desconhecido
Now, there's a detail, right, Renan?
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We are 23 days from the election.
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This scenario is very similar to 2022.
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Back then there was also Lula on one pole, Jair Bolsonaro on the other, and no alternative emerged that caught the voter's attention.
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Now the same thing is happening.
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And you would be one of those alternatives.
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Now, it strikes me that after the first round you clustered there... Former governors, the one from Goiás, Manoel do Caiado, the one from Minas Gerais, Zema, today is even ahead of Zema.
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But Augusto Cury detached himself from that group and, in a first debate on TV Bandeirantes, there was a moment when he... said he was haunted by his aggressiveness, by his verbal violence.
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He displays a style there that made him grow, that made him detach.
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There seems to be no chance of reaching the second round, apparently, but he detached from the bloc in which you find yourself.
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Don't you think your aggressiveness... contributes to this discouragement, to this torpor of the voter who looks for an alternative and doesn't find one?
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Is aggressiveness the best path?
I will disagree, Josias, with your analysis that... that Augusto Cury grew there in the debate.
I don't think I heard that.
Augusto Cury made use of influencer-buying tools to create a bubble effect for a certain audience.
That had an effect and that effect is already over.
In fact, I've already started to pass him in the tracking polls, in the surveys, and I think Augusto Cury will reach 1%, 2% at most in this election.
In fact, he will be overtaken by the governors.
There have been recent polls and the tracking polls show this: that I'm ahead of the governors and the difference with Cury, for me, won't increase, on the contrary, it's in a declining process.
I'm not an aggressive candidate, I'm a softie.
I'm a person who is willing to debate and discuss.
And where I'm treated well, I'll treat the person well in return.
And that's my role.
- For
About: attend presidential debates
Now, regarding Flávio and Lula not attending the debates, I get truly outraged.
And it may seem that I cross a line or go off point, I don't know, call it what you want.
But I think the current state of the country is outrageous.
This is such a... It's a defining moment in Brazil's history, we're talking about a democratic crisis in Brazil, we're talking about a gigantic institutional problem in Brazil, we're talking about Brazil losing space in global production chains, we're talking about organized crime taking over entire cities and, at the same time, people not debating and taking, let's say, not an ideological political position, as happened in '22.
I make this differentiation, Josias, between '22 and now, because in '22, no matter that you had the two poles there, they were in conflict.
The political debate was fierce in 2022.
It was shots, punches and bombs all over the place.
Discussion about a coup d'état, Roberto Jefferson throwing grenades, Carla Zambelli running with a revolver after others.
It was a very hot lesson.
This one is a cold lesson.
The poles exist, but nobody is talking about them.
And then you have to try to wake people up.
Sometimes I may sound aggressive because I'm trying to wake people from this torpor.
It may sometimes not be the best strategy, but it's some strategy.
We need to do something to awaken people.
I can't...
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And why do you think it's so asleep?
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This view is interesting, right?
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Why is it so asleep?
I think it's a sequence of bizarre events about these dominant blocs.
over the last two, three years.
You've had a succession of scandals, both the INSS one and the Banco Master scandal.
You've had the dissolution of Bolsonarism as the driving force of the anti-PT field.
And it's hard to explain this, but the Bolsonaros are not the draw of Bolsonarism.
You have Nicolas's, Michelle's, our very own rise within the anti-PT movement is a universe apart.
And then they lost... that energy, but at the same time that voter considers that, let's say, the default anti-PT voting mode was still a Bolsonaro.
Because they have a base, at minimum of 15% to 20%, that gives them a starting position that makes the rest of the anti-PT voter think the natural path is to vote for them.
It's more or less what PSDB came to have several times.
PSDB almost never had, in the anti-PT field until 2014, a real threat.
And the voter thought, oh, to vote against the PT it's 45%.
They're living that now.
- For
About: reduce political polarization and promote national unity
And we need to, that's the function of my candidacy, dissolve that, break that barrier and make the voter wake up.
There's an element, since it's a campaign people aren't talking about politics, I have today the most engaged base, Palver, which is now a research institute, it even did polls for Folha.
Palver shows I have the hottest, most engaged base on social networks.
I think this in the final stretch will make a very big difference, because families and social groups aren't discussing politics and whoever discusses... There's always someone supporting me.
So the tendency is for me to have a multiplier effect from that, which will make a difference in the next few weeks.
Desconhecido
There is a tiredness among the population with this dispute.
Yes, but in that sense the tiredness benefits me.
Because if there's tiredness in both poles and my voter isn't tired, the tendency for him to have a multiplier effect is greater.
Desconhecido
But your chance of reaching the second round, according to all the polls, is very slim.
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If you really don't make it to the second round, will you declare your support for Flávio Bolsonaro, who has somewhat more of your characteristics or not?
I have none of Flávio Bolsonaro's characteristics.
I'm not a thief.
Flávio Bolsonaro is stupid, he's a coward.
I don't have that characteristic, for God's sake, Flávio, don't offend me.
I don't have, like, I...
Desconhecido
But are you more to the right than to the left, or not?
Yes, but that as a category doesn't place me in something similar to him, because I think he is, from a qualitative point of view, in another category.
Flávio Bolsonaro is a political criminal.
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Is the possibility of supporting him ruled out?
I've ruled out the possibility of supporting anyone other than myself.
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In the second round?
I will be in the second round; I only work with that possibility. I have a mass of thousands—hundreds of thousands—of people mobilized in my campaign, and I think that will make a difference at the right time.
- Against
About: make political alliances to obtain positions
I will never entertain the idea of joining any of those political groups, because they are corrupt.
Actually, my political group is heavily attacked within the right because we do not submit.
I'll take a look at Zema's campaign.
To a large extent, Partido Novo has been taken over by this spirit of, look, let's engage in dialogue with bolsonarism.
- Against
About: dialogue with Bolsonarism
There is no dialogue with bolsonarism.
You don't negotiate with your head inside a tiger's mouth.
Bolsonarism always wants to devour you.
They demand only submission.
It's like PT (Workers' Party) within the left.
PT (Workers' Party) also destroys any alternative within the left.
And you cannot accept that.
And I think constant dripping wears away the stone.
We will break through that resistance.
Desconhecido
Jato, you... Go ahead, José.
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Please.
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Let Bruno go. Go on, Bruno.
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Please, Bruno.
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I'll change the subject.
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Earlier this morning, in that clash between Lula and Flávio, you are competing a bit for Flávio's votes in this first round.
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You made serious accusations regarding his campaign.
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You said that his campaign is receiving funds from a group abroad, an American group linked to the vice-president, J.D.
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Vance.
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And, in short, if that is proven, you have an electoral crime there; you cannot have a candidacy financed with foreign funds.
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My question is, do you have proof of these accusations?
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I'd like you to explain a little more and to know whether you will present it to the TSE (Superior Electoral Court) and when.
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
I have proof of the relationship of the group that involves Mr. Tales Gomes, who is a business coach linked to Flávio Bolsonaro, a sort of spokesperson for that group, who is a young man named Pedro Sangue, and other people, both with Rockbridge in the United States, with a guy named Ryan—everyone keeps an eye on that name—who is the political operator of this.
And this group Rockbridge, to be clear, involves businessmen in the technology sector and some entrepreneurs are now, curiously, wanting to invest in rare earths.
One of the leaders on their board works with Terrazars, a company called Vulcan.
And they are, naturally, getting involved with Flávio's campaign because they see all this as an opportunity to do business.
One of these guys joined Flávio's campaign; he works inside Flávio's campaign, on Flávio's committee.
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
He recently set up a company; I think this company could eventually be the target of some scrutiny at the right time by the electoral justice, also because I doubt there is foreign money directly in Flávio's campaign.
No one will do that directly.
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
Now, indirectly, it's the easiest thing in the world.
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
So this needs to be investigated, because yes, that work is happening.
This Rockbridge sought contact with Brazilian candidates from mid to late last year.
They have those contacts.
This group defines itself in Brazil as Rockbridge Brasil.
And what I'm talking about here, including Thales Gomes, this coach, he has already said in interviews, he's been on podcasts and said there are dialogues, because he's a bit of a show-off, he wants to be seen.
And it's that thing, you know?
Ego sometimes destroys strategies.
Desconhecido
Are you going to present this to the TSE (Superior Electoral Court)?
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
First I will present it to the press.
I think journalists have to do the work, because I'm now in the middle of a campaign and I don't even have a team or the capacity to do the legal work of turning this into a complaint.
I think there is investigative work that journalism has to do, not only Brazilian but also international.
Because this is a serious issue.
I'm talking here about national resources, strategic resources of Brazil; I'm talking about rare earths, which are the target of preliminary negotiations by a presidential campaign.
And not just any presidential campaign — a campaign that had its origins in meetings at Mar-a-Lago in the United States.
Flávio became a candidate at the end of last year, in a context of undermining Tarcísio's candidacy and of an agreement that was made with the Trump government.
Yes, there is a gigantic lobbying interest on the part of business groups that operate together with the American government, starting with Joélice Batista himself, who wants to invest in this area in Brazil.
And these people are dealing with these issues openly within the campaign of a competitor of mine, who is a vassal of the Trump government.
I find that shameful.
Desconhecido
Do you think this has the power, even, to take down Flávio Bolsonaro's ticket, these allegations?
I don't know.
Then I'll just, well, hand it over as a Brazilian.
More than as a candidate.
If I weren't a candidate, I would also be handing the information I have over to the press.
The press does its job.
- For
About: annul candidacies funded with foreign resources
What I believe, in fact, is that the sale — this relationship — will lead to going after the ticket.
If it is demonstrated that there is money from these people interfering in a candidacy, yes.
Desconhecido
Forgive the frankness, but that seems very convenient, doesn't it?
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: publicly support Brazilian candidates by foreign actors
Because it seems clear that Trump has a preference for Flávio Bolsonaro over any other alternative.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: fund campaigns through the party fund and the electoral fund
Now, the PL (Liberal Party)... By the number of deputies it has, it has the biggest war chest in this campaign.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: fund campaigns through the party fund and the electoral fund
It has 44 million reais to spend; it even has more money than what is available to Lula.
- Ambiguous
Desconhecido
About: receive foreign funding for campaigns
Do you really think it would take money from abroad?
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: publicly support Brazilian candidates by foreign actors
One thing is to say, look, Flávio Bolsonaro, Trump has an interest in Brazil that is better represented
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: publicly support Brazilian candidates by foreign actors
by Flávio Bolsonaro than by any other candidate.
- Against
Desconhecido
About: publicize allegations of external financing without proof
Now, to say that there is money from abroad without giving the evidence, without showing proof, isn't that bordering on fake news?
- For
About: assert existence of foreign financing for campaigns
No, it's not bordering on fake news at all.
- Neutral
About: assert existence of foreign financing through Rockbridge
I'm talking about a relationship that exists; a piece now by Guilherme Amado — they themselves confirm that there is a relationship with Rockbridge.
- Neutral
About: finance political campaigns through Rockbridge
For you to understand, Josias, Rockbridge's function in the United States is to finance campaigns.
What does Rocket Beat do?
- Neutral
About: create super PACs to finance campaigns
It was a kind of one of those super PACs that are formed in American elections with the aim of electing candidates within a certain current.
- Neutral
About: create super PACs to finance campaigns
They did this with Jade Vance.
- Neutral
About: carry out international campaign financing
So their international purpose is that: to do business.
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
If they put money into Flávio's campaign, or into Flávio's allies, or set up a structure, then it has to be investigated, Josias.
- Against
About: accuse someone of producing fake news without evidence
To throw out, to say that I am producing fake news, I find that... let's say, I find it lazy.
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
Because in practice, it has to be investigated.
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
It has to be checked.
- Neutral
About: assert existence of foreign financing for campaigns
The facts are there and the parties have admitted that it exists.
- For
About: investigate the source of campaign financing
Then it is up not only to the press, but also to the justice system.
Desconhecido
Speaking of investigation, we began our conversation talking about the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal), and you have always spoken a lot about this case.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: investigate a request for money from Daniel Vorcaro
With the investigation actually confirmed today: Flávio Bolsonaro, target of the investigation into the request for money from Daniel Vorcaro for his father's film.
Desconhecido
How do you see the complication of this for Flávio Bolsonaro?
I think, again, I think the moment we're going through is all very crazy.
- Neutral
About: investigate legal implications of requests for money from businessmen
Because I think it brings serious legal problems.
- Neutral
About: investigate the use of intermediaries tied to politicians in contracts
I think that as investigations advance, I think Flávio Bolsonaro has real implications, as someone who... traded favors.
We still have to see what the return was.
- Neutral
About: use leaked conversations as part of investigations
And I think the conversations that will leak from Vorcaro can shed light on this.
I have a suspicion.
- Neutral
About: investigate favoritism of institutions via payroll loan decrees
I think these are facts that involved his father's government, especially those decrees that involved payroll-deductible credit, including for social benefits, which greatly benefited the product that was of sexta and Banco Master there in 2022.
- For
About: investigate and clarify allegations against public officials
But I think the investigation has to move forward and I think they have to get to the facts.
The question is the political implication.
The political implication for the elections... We have to understand that both part of bolsonarism and part of lulism have a very large resilience.
It won't... They can catch Flávio beating his own mother, and people will say, but he beat her in a patriotic manner.
Same thing with Lula, with the voter himself.
So, part of those voters won't care.
And I think that's the tone of the game.
No matter how much press coverage there is, no matter how much the opponents, in my case, hammer on that, also hammer on Lulinha's involvement with Lula, the voter doesn't pay much attention, Fabio.
It's not that it's every voter.
There are voters who do pay attention.
There is an anti-PT (Workers' Party) voter who is not necessarily a Bolsonaro supporter.
What characterizes that voter?
He is disengaged.
To pick up what Josias mentioned at the beginning of the interview.
Ah, Cury has gained ground.
Cury gained ground precisely with that group of voters.
A voter who is... He is not just depoliticized; he is anti‑political.
He doesn't even want to hear political commentary and Cury seems like just a friendly grandpa there.
Then, as with the drone episode, then the person... Whoa, let me step away because this doesn't seem very appropriate to me, but... This voter will at some point make a decision.
Will his decision also be based on these allegations?
That's the question everyone wants answered.
Because if it is, then Flávio loses.
Desconhecido
Just to return to that point... How do the candidates who could be alternatives to the poles behave?
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The voter who looks sideways is searching for an opportunity to move away from Lula or from Flávio Bolsonaro.
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Then he finds the alternative... Renan Santos, and starts to follow him.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: investigate possible biases of STF ministers
Today the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) is in the hot seat, has become a glasshouse because of the behavior of some of its ministers who engaged improperly, to say the least, with Daniel Borcaro.
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Now, back in 2022, it seems that Lula's victory was influenced... by the democratic factor.
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People looked at Bolsonaro and said, well, this is a threat to democracy itself.
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And then Lula won by a very small margin.
- Against
Desconhecido
About: refuse to comply with illegal STF decisions
And now look to the side and see Renan Santos saying, if I'm elected, I will not comply with some decisions of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal).
Desconhecido
I know your point of view, you've already expressed it in other interviews and hearings, but I wanted to understand: how can one not comply with a decision of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal)?
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: appeal decisions of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) instead of disobeying them
Because by the democratic system... by logical procedure, whoever disagrees with a decision of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) will appeal.
Desconhecido
And a president will use the AGU to do that and so on.
- Against
Desconhecido
About: refuse to comply with illegal STF decisions
Now, simply failing to comply with a judicial decision wouldn't that be undemocratic behavior?
- For
About: refuse to comply with illegal STF decisions
No, not at all.
- Neutral
About: refuse to comply with illegal STF decisions
There have been previous non‑compliances.
- For
About: refuse to comply with illegal STF decisions
There is a 1996 ruling by the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) itself saying that an illegal decision does not have to be complied with.
And I do not believe we are living in a normal republican democratic regime.
- Neutral
About: criticize the political actions of the STF
What we are witnessing happen in the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal), if anyone wants to take this discussion to any legal field, is just a debate of force.
It's the presentation of rhetorical armies and palatial power plays that have nothing to do with the Democratic Rule of Law, the Republic — it has nothing to do with it.
- Neutral
About: investigate financial transactions between suspects and members of the Judiciary
The STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) has been behaving anomalously for a long time and this anomaly has been occurring now, in the last two years at least, because of their interests in economic protection, because of the involvement of STF ministers in corruption scandals and their political allies.
- Against
About: submit the country to the decisions of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal)
That's what they're doing and for us to say that the country must submit to this is madness.
- Against
About: submit the country to the decisions of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal)
I will not subject the country to that.
Desconhecido
Wouldn't failing to comply with a judicial decision be adding abnormality to the anomaly?
- For
About: refuse to comply with illegal STF decisions
No, because if I comply with an illegal decision, I'm also entering that game.
Desconhecido
And who will decide whether the decision is illegal or not?
The law, the constitution and, I'll give an example, the president of the republic.
It's that I'm not speaking here — we're taking something I said on the podcast, then they jumped to Globo News and now let's look at the original statement.
I said, look, I'm in the middle of an operation, in a favela in Rio de Janeiro.
I'm liberating the people who are in that favela.
Then that objection always comes up.
Ah, but some big shot will come and will issue a monocratic order.
- For
About: not comply with single-judge court decisions that interrupt police operations
If I'm in the middle of a delicate operation, with police acting, federal police acting, and a decision comes ordering a stop, an illegal decision is not complied with.
If I am fulfilling all the constitutional requirements and the prerogatives of a president of the republic in carrying out this act, I will not put people at risk, the police at risk, because of a monocratic decision.
I will not.
And how do you do that?
- For
About: consult the AGU on the legality of judicial decisions
You consult the AGU.
Look, AGU, is this decision correct?
No, it's not.
Ah, so am I going to put people at risk?
Desconhecido
No, I won't put them at risk.
Also, let me explain, Fabrício, one thing that needs to be clear here.
- Against
About: recognize the legitimacy of ministers of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal)
I do not recognize Alexandre de Moraes and Dias Toffoli as legitimate.
To me they are non‑ministers.
To me they shouldn't be on the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal).
To me their presence is anomalous.
Are we going to keep pretending everything is normal?
- For
About: investigate suspicions involving ministers of the Supreme Federal Tribunal
Look, there are these ministers who are crooks, who do business, are receiving money, who are using investigations as bargaining tools.
and I'm going to... I will not accept it.
- Against
About: treat decisions of Dias Toffoli and Alexandre de Moraes as acceptable
If I win the election, I will not treat a decision that comes from Dias Toffoli and Alexandre as acceptable.
Desconhecido
That made the candidate interesting.
Desconhecido
Let's take, since you mentioned that example of an operation in a favela, let's take a decision now.
Desconhecido
Mendonça removes the director‑general of the Federal Police.
Desconhecido
If you were president instead of Lula, would you comply or not?
Desconhecido
I would say, no, my director of the Federal Police will stay.
Each case is different.
- For
About: comply with removals of Federal Police directors when investigations point to corruption
In that case, André Rodrigues is involved in that corruption scandal and the investigation covers that, you would comply.
But that has nothing to do with it.
- Against
About: accept political decisions by ministers aimed at removing appointees without evidence
If it's an appointed person who is constitutionally performing their duty, and at the same time they are not involved in a corruption scandal, and then a minister makes an ultimately political decision to remove him, just to remove him, that would not be accepted.
Because what we cannot allow, again, is this palatial power game that crosses the lines of institutional order.
Someone is crossing the lines of institutional norms.
Today the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal) is crossing those lines.
Today the politicians who are involved in the same scandals, in the same orgies with members of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal), are part of this.
If we continue to treat in strictly institutional terms what is happening via agents who are not institutional, we'll go crazy.
Which is the madness of pretending that a decision that comes from Alexandre de Moraes today is institutional.
That it has formal rigor, that it is obeying Hans Kelsen's pyramid.
It has nothing to do with it.
This is just a power game.
This here is an institutional orgy that they are conducting.
- For
About: break the political-institutional dominance of the STF (Supreme Federal Tribunal)
And someone will have to break this.
Desconhecido
This needs to be broken.
- For
Desconhecido
About: disobey judicial decisions that harm police operations
To situate the issue in the terms you put it, I'm conducting an operation in a favela and an order comes saying it must be halted — simply do not comply.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: decree states of defense and federal interventions to confront organized crime
Regarding peripheral areas and combatting organized crime, your proposals are also controversial: you said there must be... a state of exception, a permanent state of defense in territories controlled by criminal organizations.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: authorize lethal force against criminals who threaten civilians
And you've also said that blood must gush, and it has to gush on the right side, which is the criminals' side.
- For
Desconhecido
About: reduce homicides and combat organized crime
Now, the State represents the opposite of banditry.
Desconhecido
The State has to combat organized crime, the criminals, with full rigor.
Desconhecido
Now, within the democratic rule of law, within the rules.
Desconhecido
And not resort to spilling blood.
Desconhecido
Spilling blood can be an alternative depending on the situation presented.
Desconhecido
Now, the State is not going into the favela to spill blood.
- Ambiguous
Desconhecido
About: authorize lethal force against criminals who threaten civilians
So, I want to ask you: this state of exception, if there is a court order to block some operation that is resorting to this type of regime not provided for in national legislation...
- Against
Desconhecido
About: use lethal force indiscriminately in favelas
Would you simply not comply?
- For
About: declare a state of siege or state of defense in situations of serious threat to order
Sorry, Josias, the state of defense is provided for in the Constitution.
to correct an inaccuracy you made.
- Against
About: declare a permanent state of defense
There is no permanent state of defense.
- Against
About: validate a state of defense for more than 60 days
It is valid for a maximum of 60 days.
So it is not permanent.
It must be used only on specific occasions.
- For
About: declare a state of siege or state of defense in situations of serious threat to order
And I'll make it clear to you: since above all I am a democrat, I will do it only locally, on specific occasions — not put the entire country in a state of defense.
- For
About: declare a state of siege or state of defense in situations of serious threat to order
We will, on specific occasions — in the operation we need to carry out, in that set of cities, in those nodes where Comando Vermelho and PCC are operating — place them in a state of defense.
- For
About: decree Guarantee of Law and Order (GLO) operations at the start of the government
If a state of defense is not necessary, go with a GLO, which by definition is not permanent.
- Against
About: keep the entire country in a state of defense
And nor should they be, because if you keep the entire country in a state of defense, you can't, for example, pass reforms.
You can't pass anything in Congress that would address the other problems, the other battles we have to face, which are the wars in the economic sphere, the war against impunity, which is the central issue for Brazil.
- For
About: authorize lethal force against criminals who threaten civilians
Now, returning to this topic, when I say the criminal's blood will gush, I repeat that.
If the criminal wants to surrender, and we don't need any blood, he surrenders.
Now, it's the nature of an organization that isn't even paramilitary — it is military, militarized, trained, using drones in combat.
- For
About: promote the surrender of criminal organizations
If Comando Vermelho wants to surrender, I can, on my first day in the presidency, say: please, surrender.
Desconhecido
Are you in favor of the death penalty?
Desconhecido
You talk a lot about this business of killing criminals.
Desconhecido
Are you in favor of the death penalty?
Desconhecido
Personally, I am.
Desconhecido
Would you put that up for discussion in Brazil?
- Against
About: establish the death penalty
Not at the beginning of my term.
- Against
About: establish the death penalty
During the four-year term, I think it's a discussion that's not possible, because you would need a new Constitution.
If you mean a PEC, that's a new Constitution.
- Against
About: implement the death penalty
And I think I can defeat organized crime without needing that.
Now, speaking in terms of principle, I think certain people who commit atrocities have no place.
I am going to be trying to rehabilitate them.
I think they are people who don't belong in civilized society.
And it's a debate, in my view.
It wasn't even raised by me.
I am not a political leader coming from the police world.
I'm not.
Now, when I toured Brazil, the population asked me, 'Renan, for the love of God, do something.'
'Kill those guys.'
And especially the poorest people are worried about this.
That's very clear.
They are the people who suffer most from this issue.
And people are coming up with very harsh responses.
And those people want those responses.
And we need those responses.
- For
About: adopt varied strategies to combat organized crime
So much so that I consider the war against organized crime to be the major response a political leader can give to Brazil.
for the problem of polarization in Brazil, which has been taking on various forms.
One of the elements of polarization we have is not right versus left, it's regional polarization.
It's a class polarization that exists in Brazil.
If you go with the poorest person you find on Marajó Island, as I did in Melgaço, or with a resident of the Serra Gaúcha,
everyone is worried about the same problem.
This public security problem unifies Brazil around a common cause.
I think that's important.
Desconhecido
Renan, it's interesting that you just said at the beginning of the interview that you're a softie.
Desconhecido
You saw that just now.
Desconhecido
That you're a softie.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: institute life imprisonment
However, your government program and even your statements, like the one you just made in favor of the death penalty, are quite extreme and go in a very different direction from what Brazil is used to and from the everyday life of Brazilians as a whole.
Desconhecido
In your government project, in your government plan registered at the TSE (Superior Electoral Court), there is life imprisonment — which you do defend and propose — the end of quotas for Black people, the end of the CLT and of the Labor Court, there is also the atomic bomb, the banning of funk in schools, and the end of university autonomy.
Desconhecido
You have also spoken about this.
Desconhecido
Do you consider yourself a radical?
No, I consider myself a sensible person.
There is nothing radical in any of the things you listed.
Absolutely nothing radical.
Which of these proposals is radical?
Name one that's radical.
Desconhecido
The voter who can decide.
Desconhecido
No, the voter — perfect.
Desconhecido
But do you agree that you bring a project for the country that is absolutely different from what Brazilians are used to or not?
Maybe, and that's good news, right?
It seems to me that Brazil is also not very happy with the State.
Desconhecido
But why isn't the voter choosing you, then?
Because voters still don't know me.
Not only do they not know me, but there is a process today — and this election was marked by that — of isolating new alternatives because of the TSE regulation that prevents algorithms from functioning in these elections.
New entrants have a very serious, a terrible difficulty in communicating because of this TSE resolution.
What does this TSE resolution do?
It prevents an algorithm that recommends content from breaking the filter bubble of that particular candidate.
Who can break this bubble or pierce this bubble today?
Those who have money to do paid promotion.
So what was done was a market reserve.
So much so that this even helps explain the nature of this election now.
So it's an election that blocks newness and allows those already established to have money, TV time, and then do their paid promotions.
So that's problematic, but I think voters' attention to the electoral period will increase.
And that will allow people to get to know [candidates].
- Neutral
About: approve the PEC on fiscal balance that de-indexes benefits and revises parliamentary amendments
Director, in your government plan, in the economic section, when you talk about your proposals for fiscal adjustment, you speak of deindexing the BPC and pensions from increases in the minimum wage above inflation.
Desconhecido
Last week, Caiado was here and he was talking about his proposals for containing expenditures.
- Neutral
Desconhecido
About: implement public spending controls and fiscal austerity policies
And when he was asked about this, he rejected that kind of alternative, saying that the adjustment couldn't be made on the backs of the poorest.
Desconhecido
Is that what you defend?
Desconhecido
Containing the growth of spending at the expense of the poorest?
Desconhecido
No, because it's not.
- Against
About: preserve the minimum wage linkage to pensions and the BPC
It's not. The BPC and the minimum wage — increasing pensions based on the minimum wage — doesn't make the people who receive these benefits more able to buy things, because the opposite effect that this generates is an increase in public spending.
- Against
About: preserve the minimum wage linkage to pensions and the BPC
Unchecked, this raises the trajectory of interest rates, increases the debt-to-GDP ratio, and makes money more expensive — it's the famous give with one hand and take with the other.
- Against
About: preserve the minimum wage linkage to pensions and the BPC
At the end of the day, a person might even think, 'Wow, my pension was adjusted according to the minimum wage.'
- Against
About: preserve the minimum wage linkage to pensions and the BPC
Okay, but the product on the shelf will be more expensive.
- Against
About: preserve the minimum wage linkage to pensions and the BPC
This lack of control has consequences that impact people's lives.
- Against
About: preserve the minimum wage linkage to pensions and the BPC
Because otherwise we end up in that discussion of Samara, of UPE: 'No, just don't pay the debt and raise the minimum wage.'
- Against
About: preserve the minimum wage linkage to pensions and the BPC
They're not. No, things aren't that simple.
- For
About: decouple health and education spending floors from the minimum wage
So, deindexations and unlinking — to get into another subject that other candidates don't want to talk about — the unlinking of the health and education spending floors will allow for control of public accounts and greater capacity for the government to propose its budget.
- For
About: decouple health and education spending floors from the minimum wage
Increasing the capacity for investment increases overall wealth, and by increasing overall wealth you increase purchasing power.
- For
About: de-index pension benefits from the minimum wage
And also, we're talking, for example, in this deindexation, where you will not have an automatic trigger.
- For
About: adjust pensions for inflation and allow real gains when possible
In other words, all pensions will be adjusted according to the PCA with inflation, which is how it happens worldwide.
- For
About: adjust pensions for inflation and allow real gains when possible
All good public management experiences are like this.
Perfect.
- For
About: raise the minimum wage above inflation according to the new fiscal rule
Now, if a president saw that economic growth was happening, the president goes and grants a real increase.
- For
About: raise the minimum wage above inflation according to the new fiscal rule
Is such leeway permitted?
- Neutral
About: prioritize macroeconomic policies for growth and prosperity
That is, I made Brazil's GDP grow by 5% this year.
- For
About: raise the minimum wage above inflation according to the new fiscal rule
Did that result in an increase in the budget for the following year?
- For
About: raise the minimum wage above inflation according to the new fiscal rule
Besides the adjustment, was an additional increase granted?
AI classification from the transcript of a public video. See the Methodology