[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":-1},["ShallowReactive",2],{"transcript-5cf8afca-56db-4d9d-9ee1-9c7aaaa8e792-en":3,"transcript-poster-5cf8afca-56db-4d9d-9ee1-9c7aaaa8e792":1858,"footer-top-topics-en":1859,"footer-top-speakers-en":1902},{"falas":4,"lang":1846,"meta":1847},[5,15,22,29,36,42,48,54,60,66,72,78,84,90,96,102,107,114,120,126,132,137,143,149,155,160,166,172,178,184,190,196,201,206,212,218,224,230,236,243,249,255,261,267,273,279,285,291,297,303,308,314,320,326,332,338,344,350,356,362,368,373,379,385,391,397,403,409,415,421,427,433,439,445,451,457,463,469,475,481,487,493,499,505,511,517,523,529,535,541,547,553,559,565,571,577,583,589,595,601,607,613,618,624,630,636,642,648,654,660,666,672,678,684,690,696,702,708,714,720,726,732,738,744,750,756,762,768,774,780,786,792,798,804,810,816,822,828,834,840,846,852,858,864,870,876,882,888,894,900,906,912,918,924,930,936,942,948,954,960,966,972,978,984,990,996,1002,1008,1013,1019,1025,1031,1037,1043,1049,1055,1061,1067,1073,1079,1085,1091,1097,1103,1109,1114,1120,1126,1132,1138,1144,1150,1156,1162,1168,1174,1180,1186,1192,1198,1204,1210,1216,1222,1228,1234,1240,1246,1252,1258,1264,1270,1276,1282,1288,1294,1300,1306,1312,1318,1324,1330,1336,1342,1348,1354,1360,1366,1372,1378,1384,1390,1396,1402,1408,1414,1420,1426,1432,1438,1444,1450,1456,1462,1468,1474,1480,1486,1492,1498,1504,1510,1516,1522,1528,1534,1540,1546,1552,1558,1564,1570,1576,1582,1588,1594,1600,1606,1612,1618,1624,1630,1636,1642,1648,1654,1660,1666,1672,1678,1684,1690,1696,1702,1708,1714,1720,1726,1732,1738,1744,1750,1756,1762,1768,1774,1780,1786,1792,1798,1804,1810,1816,1822,1828,1834,1840],{"idx":6,"utterance_id":7,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":10,"start_s":11,"end_s":12,"word_count":13,"indexable":14},0,"86021","Fernando Haddad","fernando-haddad","My interviewee today is a specialist in a theme recurring in Brazilian history since the 16th century: authoritarianism.",10.14,16.64,20,false,{"idx":16,"utterance_id":17,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":18,"start_s":19,"end_s":20,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},1,"86022","She is an anthropologist, historian and professor at the Faculty of Philosophy, Human Sciences and Letters of the University of São Paulo and at Princeton University.",17.2,25.46,24,{"idx":23,"utterance_id":24,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":25,"start_s":26,"end_s":27,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},2,"86023","Good evening, my friend Lília Schwartz.",26.22,28.52,6,{"idx":30,"utterance_id":31,"speaker_name":32,"text":33,"start_s":34,"end_s":35,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},3,"86024","Desconhecido","Good evening.",28.94,29.46,{"idx":37,"utterance_id":38,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":39,"start_s":40,"end_s":41,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},4,"86025","How are you?",29.5,29.8,{"idx":43,"utterance_id":44,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":45,"start_s":46,"end_s":47,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},5,"86026","All good.",30.08,30.48,{"idx":28,"utterance_id":49,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":50,"start_s":51,"end_s":52,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},"86027","Well, I'll start by first thanking you for the gift, the book on Brazilian authoritarianism.",31,38.96,15,{"idx":55,"utterance_id":56,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":57,"start_s":58,"end_s":59,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},7,"86028","Lília Schwartz, newly released, about three months ago.",39.36,42.92,{"idx":61,"utterance_id":62,"speaker_name":32,"text":63,"start_s":64,"end_s":65,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},8,"86029","Three months.",43.22,43.86,{"idx":67,"utterance_id":68,"speaker_name":32,"text":69,"start_s":70,"end_s":71,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},9,"86030","Three and a half months.",44.12,45.5,{"idx":73,"utterance_id":74,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":75,"start_s":76,"end_s":77,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},10,"86031","And already with more than 30,000 copies.",45.54,49.32,{"idx":79,"utterance_id":80,"speaker_name":32,"text":81,"start_s":82,"end_s":83,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},11,"86032","You can see this topic is hot, right?",49.66,51.64,{"idx":85,"utterance_id":86,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":87,"start_s":88,"end_s":89,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},12,"86033","That is, Brazilians are very interested in discussing Brazil, the history of Brazil.",51.7,57.74,{"idx":91,"utterance_id":92,"speaker_name":32,"text":93,"start_s":94,"end_s":95,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},13,"86034","They want to understand, right?",57.78,58.44,{"idx":97,"utterance_id":98,"speaker_name":32,"text":99,"start_s":100,"end_s":101,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},14,"86035","To understand its roots, its problems.",58.48,60.86,{"idx":53,"utterance_id":103,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":104,"start_s":105,"end_s":106,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},"86036","And here your book, which I read with great interest.",61.12,65.8,{"idx":108,"utterance_id":109,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":110,"start_s":111,"end_s":112,"word_count":113,"indexable":14},16,"86037","Because I am studying Brazil as well, I think every Brazilian is more interested than ever in the history of this country, so we can rethink our future, our current condition.",66.1,77.66,32,{"idx":115,"utterance_id":116,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":117,"start_s":118,"end_s":119,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},17,"86038","It has eight chapters, each one devoted to a structural problem of Brazil.",78.66,85.68,{"idx":121,"utterance_id":122,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":123,"start_s":124,"end_s":125,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},18,"86039","The first chapter is about slavery and racism, the second about strongman rule.",88.04,92.44,{"idx":127,"utterance_id":128,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":129,"start_s":130,"end_s":131,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},19,"86040","Third, about patrimonialism.",93.06,94.84,{"idx":13,"utterance_id":133,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":134,"start_s":135,"end_s":136,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},"86041","Fourth, about corruption.",95.46,96.7,{"idx":138,"utterance_id":139,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":140,"start_s":141,"end_s":142,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},21,"86042","Fifth, about social inequality.",97.34,99.08,{"idx":144,"utterance_id":145,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":146,"start_s":147,"end_s":148,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},22,"86043","Sixth, about violence.",99.74,101,{"idx":150,"utterance_id":151,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":152,"start_s":153,"end_s":154,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},23,"86044","Seventh, about race and gender.",102.52,104.64,{"idx":21,"utterance_id":156,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":157,"start_s":158,"end_s":159,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},"86045","Eighth, about intolerance.",105.24,107.38,{"idx":161,"utterance_id":162,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":163,"start_s":164,"end_s":165,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},25,"86046","It's a kind of eight plagues of Brazil.",108.48,111.98,{"idx":167,"utterance_id":168,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":169,"start_s":170,"end_s":171,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},26,"86047","We've outdone Egypt.",113.06,114.54,{"idx":173,"utterance_id":174,"speaker_name":32,"text":175,"start_s":176,"end_s":177,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},27,"86048","But plagues that can be dealt with, because they are historical plagues, not biological ones.",115.2,119.74,{"idx":179,"utterance_id":180,"speaker_name":32,"text":181,"start_s":182,"end_s":183,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},28,"86049","So I would like to start...",119.78,121.26,{"idx":185,"utterance_id":186,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":187,"start_s":188,"end_s":189,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},29,"86050","Before talking about contemporary Brazil, about the perspectives you see for our future, you are a historian and anthropologist, I would like you,",122.24,129.58,{"idx":191,"utterance_id":192,"speaker_name":32,"text":193,"start_s":194,"end_s":195,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},30,"86051","in",131.48,131.56,{"idx":51,"utterance_id":197,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":198,"start_s":199,"end_s":200,"word_count":173,"indexable":14},"86052","quick strokes, address these topics, especially those that are not much covered by the press, but that are the subject of fairly in-depth historiographical studies, as you yourself report.",132.18,146.4,{"idx":113,"utterance_id":202,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":203,"start_s":204,"end_s":205,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},"86053","But I'd start—well, slavery is a classic theme; then you talk about strongman rule.",147.42,151.84,{"idx":207,"utterance_id":208,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":209,"start_s":210,"end_s":211,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},33,"86054","Why did you highlight strongman rule as a structural problem in Brazilian history?",152.6,158.4,{"idx":213,"utterance_id":214,"speaker_name":32,"text":215,"start_s":216,"end_s":217,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},34,"86055","Because Brazil was a country created from the colonial logic.",159.06,165.78,{"idx":219,"utterance_id":220,"speaker_name":32,"text":221,"start_s":222,"end_s":223,"word_count":13,"indexable":14},35,"86056","It was also a country created from a specific metropolis, Portugal, which was a small country with a small population.",167,173.74,{"idx":225,"utterance_id":226,"speaker_name":32,"text":227,"start_s":228,"end_s":229,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},36,"86057","And this colonial logic is part of a perverse",174.4,178.82,{"idx":231,"utterance_id":232,"speaker_name":32,"text":233,"start_s":234,"end_s":235,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},37,"86058","of our history and of our structure, as you yourself refer to.",179.14,182.56,{"idx":237,"utterance_id":238,"speaker_name":32,"text":239,"start_s":240,"end_s":241,"word_count":242,"indexable":14},38,"86059","Brazil, as we all know, was built on the basis of the distribution of large estates, properties in which, if one looks at the maps of the 16th and 17th centuries, we knew where the coast was, nobody knew what lay inland; they were very funny maps, the kind that said 'unknown lands.'",184,201.08,49,{"idx":244,"utterance_id":245,"speaker_name":32,"text":246,"start_s":247,"end_s":248,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},39,"86060","It's almost Kafkaesque, that is... unknown lands, but they're already on the map.",201.18,205.84,{"idx":250,"utterance_id":251,"speaker_name":32,"text":252,"start_s":253,"end_s":254,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},40,"86061","And those wide, immense territories without limit, without end, were given to certain governors-general, donataries.",206.38,215.56,{"idx":256,"utterance_id":257,"speaker_name":32,"text":258,"start_s":259,"end_s":260,"word_count":13,"indexable":14},41,"86062","On that principle, which is why I begin with slavery, from the following principle: some command and many must obey.",215.98,224.86,{"idx":262,"utterance_id":263,"speaker_name":32,"text":264,"start_s":265,"end_s":266,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},42,"86063","That didn't work out, but that was the model.",225.44,227.82,{"idx":268,"utterance_id":269,"speaker_name":32,"text":270,"start_s":271,"end_s":272,"word_count":268,"indexable":14},43,"86064","So we created this figure of the great bosses, of the great oligarchic chiefs, who had control not only economically, but political control, social control, religious control, cultural control and also control over life and death.",228.18,245.12,{"idx":274,"utterance_id":275,"speaker_name":32,"text":276,"start_s":277,"end_s":278,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},44,"86065","There is a very strong figure in the First Republic called the colonel.",245.72,249.7,{"idx":280,"utterance_id":281,"speaker_name":32,"text":282,"start_s":283,"end_s":284,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},45,"86066","Who was the 'coronel'?",250.2,251.08,{"idx":286,"utterance_id":287,"speaker_name":32,"text":288,"start_s":289,"end_s":290,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},46,"86067","It wasn't someone who had pursued a military career.",251.32,254.56,{"idx":292,"utterance_id":293,"speaker_name":32,"text":294,"start_s":295,"end_s":296,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},47,"86068","They were major oligarchic leaders who had, in the name 'coronel,' a kind of endorsement.",255.04,261.54,{"idx":298,"utterance_id":299,"speaker_name":32,"text":300,"start_s":301,"end_s":302,"word_count":144,"indexable":14},48,"86069","That is, they could give orders, did so, and had the right to determine whom voters would vote for and how they would vote.",261.64,270.54,{"idx":242,"utterance_id":304,"speaker_name":32,"text":305,"start_s":306,"end_s":307,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},"86070","And that persists today.",271.1,273.42,{"idx":309,"utterance_id":310,"speaker_name":32,"text":311,"start_s":312,"end_s":313,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},50,"86071","with the large families of local strongmen.",273.86,276.6,{"idx":315,"utterance_id":316,"speaker_name":32,"text":317,"start_s":318,"end_s":319,"word_count":173,"indexable":14},51,"86072","This model is so strong that in the 2018 elections, when the idea of a new Brazil, a new politics was sold, none of that happened.",277.1,287.04,{"idx":321,"utterance_id":322,"speaker_name":32,"text":323,"start_s":324,"end_s":325,"word_count":127,"indexable":14},52,"86073","The famous relatives' caucus — the groups of candidates who later become deputies and senators — occupy those positions.",287.58,297.88,{"idx":327,"utterance_id":328,"speaker_name":32,"text":329,"start_s":330,"end_s":331,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},53,"86074","Now in Brasília, it grew in the 2018 election instead of shrinking.",297.94,302.6,{"idx":333,"utterance_id":334,"speaker_name":32,"text":335,"start_s":336,"end_s":337,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},54,"86075","So, I'd say: welcome to the new old Brazilian politics.",302.68,307.36,{"idx":339,"utterance_id":340,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":341,"start_s":342,"end_s":343,"word_count":115,"indexable":14},55,"86076","Would you say that interpersonal relationships were the dominant theme of last year's election in the National Congress?",307.44,317.04,{"idx":345,"utterance_id":346,"speaker_name":32,"text":347,"start_s":348,"end_s":349,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},56,"86077","They were and still are.",317.58,318.8,{"idx":351,"utterance_id":352,"speaker_name":32,"text":353,"start_s":354,"end_s":355,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},57,"86078","So much so that the third plague, the curse, is patrimonialism.",319.18,323.24,{"idx":357,"utterance_id":358,"speaker_name":32,"text":359,"start_s":360,"end_s":361,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},58,"86079","What is patrimonialism?",324.36,325.86,{"idx":363,"utterance_id":364,"speaker_name":32,"text":365,"start_s":366,"end_s":367,"word_count":161,"indexable":14},59,"86080","I know you know this topic very well, we studied it at university, we were classmates there, classmates from the glorious PET course, which had sensational students.",326.24,335.66,{"idx":369,"utterance_id":370,"speaker_name":32,"text":359,"start_s":371,"end_s":372,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},60,"86081",336.22,337.46,{"idx":374,"utterance_id":375,"speaker_name":32,"text":376,"start_s":377,"end_s":378,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},61,"86082","Quickly.",337.94,338.6,{"idx":380,"utterance_id":381,"speaker_name":32,"text":382,"start_s":383,"end_s":384,"word_count":161,"indexable":14},62,"86083","Patrimonialism is when you allow personal spheres to interfere in public spheres, when there is an inflation of the private over the public.",338.92,350.94,{"idx":386,"utterance_id":387,"speaker_name":32,"text":388,"start_s":389,"end_s":390,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},63,"86084","This in Brazil happens... all the time.",351.44,354.48,{"idx":392,"utterance_id":393,"speaker_name":32,"text":394,"start_s":395,"end_s":396,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},64,"86085","and it was also the dominant theme of the 2018 elections.",354.54,357.68,{"idx":398,"utterance_id":399,"speaker_name":32,"text":400,"start_s":401,"end_s":402,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},65,"86086","Well, just think that there was a candidate who simply changed his surname, isn't that so?",357.9,363.94,{"idx":404,"utterance_id":405,"speaker_name":32,"text":406,"start_s":407,"end_s":408,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},66,"86087","He became Hélio Bolsonaro, didn't he?",364.7,366.04,{"idx":410,"utterance_id":411,"speaker_name":32,"text":412,"start_s":413,"end_s":414,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},67,"86088","To win the election.",366.08,367.24,{"idx":416,"utterance_id":417,"speaker_name":32,"text":418,"start_s":419,"end_s":420,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},68,"86089","Well, what does that mean?",367.66,368.88,{"idx":422,"utterance_id":423,"speaker_name":32,"text":424,"start_s":425,"end_s":426,"word_count":150,"indexable":14},69,"86090","When you make a shady deal and make your private values more important than the values of the res publica.",368.96,378.18,{"idx":428,"utterance_id":429,"speaker_name":32,"text":430,"start_s":431,"end_s":432,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},70,"86091","Res publica means the public thing.",378.88,381.88,{"idx":434,"utterance_id":435,"speaker_name":32,"text":436,"start_s":437,"end_s":438,"word_count":167,"indexable":14},71,"86092","So, the first Brazilian historian, Frei Vicente, already said that the problem in Brazil is that everyone was private and no one was public.",382.3,392,{"idx":440,"utterance_id":441,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":442,"start_s":443,"end_s":444,"word_count":231,"indexable":14},72,"86093","Lilian, one thing... First, I thought this way of presenting things helps people who aren't in the field to organize some of the wealth of information and relevance you bring.",392.68,408.74,{"idx":446,"utterance_id":447,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":448,"start_s":449,"end_s":450,"word_count":179,"indexable":14},73,"86094","And that has costs too, because at a certain point we end up asking ourselves how these structures relate around a totality called Brazil.",411.56,422.94,{"idx":452,"utterance_id":453,"speaker_name":32,"text":454,"start_s":455,"end_s":456,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},74,"86095","Perfect, I agree.",423.82,425.22,{"idx":458,"utterance_id":459,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":460,"start_s":461,"end_s":462,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},75,"86096","And the question I ask you is: what is this totality?",425.28,428.8,{"idx":464,"utterance_id":465,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":466,"start_s":467,"end_s":468,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},76,"86097","How can we see Brazil?",428.86,431,{"idx":470,"utterance_id":471,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":472,"start_s":473,"end_s":474,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},77,"86098","That is, we look at each of these issues, we recognize ourselves in them.",431.68,436.98,{"idx":476,"utterance_id":477,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":478,"start_s":479,"end_s":480,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},78,"86099","The day-to-day of Brazil is very much that; it always has been.",437.58,440.4,{"idx":482,"utterance_id":483,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":484,"start_s":485,"end_s":486,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},79,"86100","What is this totality?",441.44,442.84,{"idx":488,"utterance_id":489,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":490,"start_s":491,"end_s":492,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},80,"86101","How much does this have to do with our Iberian tradition?",442.9,447.84,{"idx":494,"utterance_id":495,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":496,"start_s":497,"end_s":498,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},81,"86102","How much of it is original to Brazil?",447.98,451.56,{"idx":500,"utterance_id":501,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":502,"start_s":503,"end_s":504,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},82,"86103","All this contemporary controversy, in contemporary literature, about our particularity.",452.32,462.38,{"idx":506,"utterance_id":507,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":508,"start_s":509,"end_s":510,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},83,"86104","How do you see this totality?",463.9,465.76,{"idx":512,"utterance_id":513,"speaker_name":32,"text":514,"start_s":515,"end_s":516,"word_count":150,"indexable":14},84,"86105","Well, I wrote this book at the time of the end of last year's electoral process and finished it and dated it March 1.",466.46,476.74,{"idx":518,"utterance_id":519,"speaker_name":32,"text":520,"start_s":521,"end_s":522,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},85,"86106","Why did I date it?",476.8,477.5,{"idx":524,"utterance_id":525,"speaker_name":32,"text":526,"start_s":527,"end_s":528,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},86,"86107","First because historians are very bad with the history of the present.",478.12,481.16,{"idx":530,"utterance_id":531,"speaker_name":32,"text":532,"start_s":533,"end_s":534,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},87,"86108","We like to analyze closed processes.",481.2,483.44,{"idx":536,"utterance_id":537,"speaker_name":32,"text":538,"start_s":539,"end_s":540,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},88,"86109","Many times we are mistaken, and it's good that we err, isn't it?",484.16,487.04,{"idx":542,"utterance_id":543,"speaker_name":32,"text":544,"start_s":545,"end_s":546,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},89,"86110","I also dated it because time is running fast in Brazil.",488.24,491.52,{"idx":548,"utterance_id":549,"speaker_name":32,"text":550,"start_s":551,"end_s":552,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},90,"86111","But what were the aims of this book?",492,494.04,{"idx":554,"utterance_id":555,"speaker_name":32,"text":556,"start_s":557,"end_s":558,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},91,"86112","That there was, exactly as you said, a broader phenomenon.",494.1,498.66,{"idx":560,"utterance_id":561,"speaker_name":32,"text":562,"start_s":563,"end_s":564,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},92,"86113","and a more particular phenomenon.",499.26,500.58,{"idx":566,"utterance_id":567,"speaker_name":32,"text":568,"start_s":569,"end_s":570,"word_count":179,"indexable":14},93,"86114","If we go to the history of the past, it's possible to say that Brazil was a colony like other countries were colonies, but even so it had a different destiny.",500.98,508.88,{"idx":572,"utterance_id":573,"speaker_name":32,"text":574,"start_s":575,"end_s":576,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},94,"86115","So, again, the particular.",509.22,510.48,{"idx":578,"utterance_id":579,"speaker_name":32,"text":580,"start_s":581,"end_s":582,"word_count":237,"indexable":14},95,"86116","But if we look at the present moment, it's possible to say — and I'll venture here, following Professor Oscar Vilhena who has drawn much attention to the term — that we are living a conservative wave that we could call 'democraduras'.",510.92,525.24,{"idx":584,"utterance_id":585,"speaker_name":32,"text":586,"start_s":587,"end_s":588,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},96,"86117","What are 'democraduras'?",526.36,527.68,{"idx":590,"utterance_id":591,"speaker_name":32,"text":592,"start_s":593,"end_s":594,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},97,"86118","Democraduras?",528.06,528.78,{"idx":596,"utterance_id":597,"speaker_name":32,"text":598,"start_s":599,"end_s":600,"word_count":127,"indexable":14},98,"86119","They are governments that follow an ostensible democratic form but that in their day-to-day contradict that democratic form.",528.86,537.38,{"idx":602,"utterance_id":603,"speaker_name":32,"text":604,"start_s":605,"end_s":606,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},99,"86120","They are countries that believe democracy consists only of elections.",537.76,541.28,{"idx":608,"utterance_id":609,"speaker_name":32,"text":610,"start_s":611,"end_s":612,"word_count":150,"indexable":14},100,"86121","Well, I'm not going to teach how to cheat or how to pray, but we know that the election is only a ritual moment, right?",542.28,549.06,{"idx":148,"utterance_id":614,"speaker_name":32,"text":615,"start_s":616,"end_s":617,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},"86122","It starts from your day-to-day life.",549.18,552.02,{"idx":619,"utterance_id":620,"speaker_name":32,"text":621,"start_s":622,"end_s":623,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},102,"86123","These are countries that are on the rise.",553.22,555.48,{"idx":625,"utterance_id":626,"speaker_name":32,"text":627,"start_s":628,"end_s":629,"word_count":327,"indexable":14},103,"86124","We can recall Donald Trump in the United States, the cases of the Philippines, Hungary, Poland, Italy, and even — I'll stir controversy here — Venezuela, which has adopted a model we cannot call democratic.",555.8,574.78,{"idx":631,"utterance_id":632,"speaker_name":32,"text":633,"start_s":634,"end_s":635,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},104,"86125","Well, this is a broader panorama, but what is specific to Brazil?",575.34,581.44,{"idx":637,"utterance_id":638,"speaker_name":32,"text":639,"start_s":640,"end_s":641,"word_count":113,"indexable":14},105,"86126","What is specific to Brazil — and that's why I start the topic there — is this knot of slavery and this knot of racism in Brazil.",581.82,592.86,{"idx":643,"utterance_id":644,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":645,"start_s":646,"end_s":647,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},106,"86127","You open the book with this theme, not by chance.",593.04,595.82,{"idx":649,"utterance_id":650,"speaker_name":32,"text":651,"start_s":652,"end_s":653,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},107,"86128","No, and I end with it too, because I end with race and gender.",596,598.86,{"idx":655,"utterance_id":656,"speaker_name":32,"text":657,"start_s":658,"end_s":659,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},108,"86129","I think Brazil has not yet...",599.58,601.98,{"idx":661,"utterance_id":662,"speaker_name":32,"text":663,"start_s":664,"end_s":665,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},109,"86130","Race and gender and intolerance.",602.02,603.16,{"idx":667,"utterance_id":668,"speaker_name":32,"text":669,"start_s":670,"end_s":671,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},110,"86131","And intolerance, you're absolutely right.",603.2,604.8,{"idx":673,"utterance_id":674,"speaker_name":32,"text":675,"start_s":676,"end_s":677,"word_count":150,"indexable":14},111,"86132","I think Brazil still hasn't paid attention to this issue, so much so that Brazil refuses to implement reparations policies.",605.2,611.46,{"idx":679,"utterance_id":680,"speaker_name":32,"text":681,"start_s":682,"end_s":683,"word_count":173,"indexable":14},112,"86133","It's no coincidence that our head of the executive, when he was still a federal deputy, launched a controversy saying that the Portuguese had never set foot in Africa.",611.88,621.14,{"idx":685,"utterance_id":686,"speaker_name":32,"text":687,"start_s":688,"end_s":689,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},113,"86134","How crazy, right?",621.86,622.5,{"idx":691,"utterance_id":692,"speaker_name":32,"text":693,"start_s":694,"end_s":695,"word_count":138,"indexable":14},114,"86135","Exactly, I responded in Folha de São Paulo, because his assumption is that the Africans were the ones who enslaved themselves.",622.9,628.44,{"idx":697,"utterance_id":698,"speaker_name":32,"text":699,"start_s":700,"end_s":701,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},115,"86136","We know that there was slavery in Africa, as there was in Europe, as there was in the Americas.",629.04,633.66,{"idx":703,"utterance_id":704,"speaker_name":32,"text":705,"start_s":706,"end_s":707,"word_count":231,"indexable":14},116,"86137","But the mercantile slavery, of the size that it was — that is, we're talking about the removal of more than 12 million African men and women — of those, 10 million came to the Americas and managed to arrive, and 4.8 million ended up in Brazil.",634.04,652.98,{"idx":709,"utterance_id":710,"speaker_name":32,"text":711,"start_s":712,"end_s":713,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},117,"86138","That is, Brazil received practically half of that population.",653.32,656.62,{"idx":715,"utterance_id":716,"speaker_name":32,"text":717,"start_s":718,"end_s":719,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},118,"86139","Brazil was the last country to abolish slavery in the Americas.",657.12,660.64,{"idx":721,"utterance_id":722,"speaker_name":32,"text":723,"start_s":724,"end_s":725,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},119,"86140","We know that slavery still exists; I'm talking about mercantile slavery.",660.72,663.8,{"idx":727,"utterance_id":728,"speaker_name":32,"text":729,"start_s":730,"end_s":731,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},120,"86141","And Brazil did not have a post-emancipation policy in the sense of including that population.",664.46,670.26,{"idx":733,"utterance_id":734,"speaker_name":32,"text":735,"start_s":736,"end_s":737,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},121,"86142","Now, Fernando, Brazil currently has 55% of its population identifying as black and mixed-race.",670.88,677.64,{"idx":739,"utterance_id":740,"speaker_name":32,"text":741,"start_s":742,"end_s":743,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},122,"86143","Those were the latest data.",677.72,678.78,{"idx":745,"utterance_id":746,"speaker_name":32,"text":747,"start_s":748,"end_s":749,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},123,"86144","We are the second largest country by population of African origin, only behind Nigeria.",679.26,685.14,{"idx":751,"utterance_id":752,"speaker_name":32,"text":753,"start_s":754,"end_s":755,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},124,"86145","And even so, we engage in a kind of diversionary tactic.",685.76,689.76,{"idx":757,"utterance_id":758,"speaker_name":32,"text":759,"start_s":760,"end_s":761,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},125,"86146","This is one of our particularities.",689.96,691.42,{"idx":763,"utterance_id":764,"speaker_name":32,"text":765,"start_s":766,"end_s":767,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},126,"86147","Another particularity is the fact that we were a colony of exploitation.",691.96,695.24,{"idx":769,"utterance_id":770,"speaker_name":32,"text":771,"start_s":772,"end_s":773,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},127,"86148","Not all countries were.",695.96,697.86,{"idx":775,"utterance_id":776,"speaker_name":32,"text":777,"start_s":778,"end_s":779,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},128,"86149","Colonies whose economy and market were oriented exclusively outward rather than inward.",698.24,704.12,{"idx":781,"utterance_id":782,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":783,"start_s":784,"end_s":785,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},129,"86150","Primary products for export, right?",704.32,705.98,{"idx":787,"utterance_id":788,"speaker_name":32,"text":789,"start_s":790,"end_s":791,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},130,"86151","Exactly.",706.26,706.8,{"idx":793,"utterance_id":794,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":795,"start_s":796,"end_s":797,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},131,"86152","All the economic cycles, right?",707.52,709.56,{"idx":799,"utterance_id":800,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":801,"start_s":802,"end_s":803,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},132,"86153","Sugarcane, cotton, coffee.",709.64,711.32,{"idx":805,"utterance_id":806,"speaker_name":32,"text":807,"start_s":808,"end_s":809,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},133,"86154","All were part of a primary economy.",711.82,713.32,{"idx":811,"utterance_id":812,"speaker_name":32,"text":813,"start_s":814,"end_s":815,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},134,"86155","Rubber, right?",713.36,713.88,{"idx":817,"utterance_id":818,"speaker_name":32,"text":819,"start_s":820,"end_s":821,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},135,"86156","Yes — in other words, we produced raw products.",714.2,716.58,{"idx":823,"utterance_id":824,"speaker_name":32,"text":825,"start_s":826,"end_s":827,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},136,"86157","the natural product so that it would be exported and even manufactured abroad.",717.88,723.08,{"idx":829,"utterance_id":830,"speaker_name":32,"text":831,"start_s":832,"end_s":833,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},137,"86158","Well, these cycles also resulted, as we know now, in a very strong agrarian sector.",723.6,729.74,{"idx":835,"utterance_id":836,"speaker_name":32,"text":837,"start_s":838,"end_s":839,"word_count":213,"indexable":14},138,"86159","I'm not against agribusiness; I think there are representatives of agribusiness, but we all know how agribusiness drives our economy and pressures our population.",730.14,742.36,{"idx":841,"utterance_id":842,"speaker_name":32,"text":843,"start_s":844,"end_s":845,"word_count":161,"indexable":14},139,"86160","We know very well the conflicts we've had in indigenous areas, in quilombola areas, and the problems, not forgetting, of our environmental problems.",742.76,751.88,{"idx":847,"utterance_id":848,"speaker_name":32,"text":849,"start_s":850,"end_s":851,"word_count":179,"indexable":14},140,"86161","So, if we stay only on this, we can say much more, but in these two elements — slavery... There were more than three centuries of slave labor and no compensation.",752.22,763.46,{"idx":853,"utterance_id":854,"speaker_name":32,"text":855,"start_s":856,"end_s":857,"word_count":144,"indexable":14},141,"86162","We should also think that we were a colony of exploitation that still presents itself as a country that, above all, produces primary products for export.",764.26,772.7,{"idx":859,"utterance_id":860,"speaker_name":32,"text":861,"start_s":862,"end_s":863,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},142,"86163","That characteristic is changing.",772.88,774.14,{"idx":865,"utterance_id":866,"speaker_name":32,"text":867,"start_s":868,"end_s":869,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},143,"86164","But these are very strong sectors in our economy and in our politics.",774.48,779.1,{"idx":871,"utterance_id":872,"speaker_name":32,"text":873,"start_s":874,"end_s":875,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},144,"86165","Well, there we have very particular elements that speak to our authoritarianism.",779.58,784.44,{"idx":877,"utterance_id":878,"speaker_name":32,"text":879,"start_s":880,"end_s":881,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},145,"86166","The book's thesis is not that we turned authoritarian.",784.5,788.04,{"idx":883,"utterance_id":884,"speaker_name":32,"text":885,"start_s":886,"end_s":887,"word_count":150,"indexable":14},146,"86167","We have always been authoritarian, but there was a time when Brazilians liked to present themselves as democratic, very peaceful, and so on.",788.54,798.18,{"idx":889,"utterance_id":890,"speaker_name":32,"text":891,"start_s":892,"end_s":893,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},147,"86168","The underlying question is why we made that turn.",798.32,802.26,{"idx":895,"utterance_id":896,"speaker_name":32,"text":897,"start_s":898,"end_s":899,"word_count":13,"indexable":14},148,"86169","And now we want to present ourselves to the world as intolerant, hostile to minorities, opposed to the environmental agenda.",802.76,812.3,{"idx":901,"utterance_id":902,"speaker_name":32,"text":903,"start_s":904,"end_s":905,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},149,"86170","That has changed, and this is particular to Brazil.",812.5,814.86,{"idx":907,"utterance_id":908,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":909,"start_s":910,"end_s":911,"word_count":13,"indexable":14},150,"86171","To what extent is what we're experiencing today a relapse of that whole tragic past we lived through?",815.58,825.18,{"idx":913,"utterance_id":914,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":915,"start_s":916,"end_s":917,"word_count":292,"indexable":14},151,"86172","And to what extent, prompted by your observations about what's happening in the world, is it also the result of that wind blowing from outside and related to the resurgence of what they're calling... illiberal democracies or 'democraduras', as you put it.",825.34,845.78,{"idx":919,"utterance_id":920,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":921,"start_s":922,"end_s":923,"word_count":115,"indexable":14},152,"86173","What is the link between our past, that is, between history and the present geography?",846.86,853.7,{"idx":925,"utterance_id":926,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":927,"start_s":928,"end_s":929,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},153,"86174","What, in your opinion, weighs most in Brazil's current moment?",854.1,857.48,{"idx":931,"utterance_id":932,"speaker_name":32,"text":933,"start_s":934,"end_s":935,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},154,"86175","Well, the question is difficult.",858.42,859.72,{"idx":937,"utterance_id":938,"speaker_name":32,"text":939,"start_s":940,"end_s":941,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},155,"86176","It's the famous million-dollar question.",859.82,861.72,{"idx":943,"utterance_id":944,"speaker_name":32,"text":945,"start_s":946,"end_s":947,"word_count":150,"indexable":14},156,"86177","I'll come back to your question in a moment, because it's basically unanswerable, but I think it's a combination.",863.86,870.1,{"idx":949,"utterance_id":950,"speaker_name":32,"text":951,"start_s":952,"end_s":953,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},157,"86178","For example, it's not possible to say that the structural and institutional racism we experience in Brazil today is exclusively a legacy of the past.",870.52,880.98,{"idx":955,"utterance_id":956,"speaker_name":32,"text":957,"start_s":958,"end_s":959,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},158,"86179","Because if we say it's exclusively a legacy of the past, we'll create a very passive attitude.",881.64,887.38,{"idx":961,"utterance_id":962,"speaker_name":32,"text":963,"start_s":964,"end_s":965,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},159,"86180","That is, the blame lies with the past, I'm very sorry, there's nothing I can do.",888.18,892.3,{"idx":967,"utterance_id":968,"speaker_name":32,"text":969,"start_s":970,"end_s":971,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},160,"86181","No, we are, on a broad scale, recreating this past of ours.",892.82,897.6,{"idx":973,"utterance_id":974,"speaker_name":32,"text":975,"start_s":976,"end_s":977,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},161,"86182","I tend to say that our present is haunted by our past.",897.64,902.76,{"idx":979,"utterance_id":980,"speaker_name":32,"text":981,"start_s":982,"end_s":983,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},162,"86183","So, is the past important?",903.26,904.9,{"idx":985,"utterance_id":986,"speaker_name":32,"text":987,"start_s":988,"end_s":989,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},163,"86184","It's very important.",905.06,905.94,{"idx":991,"utterance_id":992,"speaker_name":32,"text":993,"start_s":994,"end_s":995,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},164,"86185","Are there new developments in the present?",906.1,907.52,{"idx":997,"utterance_id":998,"speaker_name":32,"text":999,"start_s":1000,"end_s":1001,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},165,"86186","There are.",907.64,908,{"idx":1003,"utterance_id":1004,"speaker_name":32,"text":1005,"start_s":1006,"end_s":1007,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},166,"86187","Let's address the issue; let's provide a broader overview to talk about the present.",908.28,914.28,{"idx":222,"utterance_id":1009,"speaker_name":32,"text":1010,"start_s":1011,"end_s":1012,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},"86188","We've been experiencing—let's talk about polarization—I've changed my phrasing.",914.74,918.14,{"idx":1014,"utterance_id":1015,"speaker_name":32,"text":1016,"start_s":1017,"end_s":1018,"word_count":115,"indexable":14},168,"86189","If we think of the 2013-2014 mobilizations, I think Brazilians experienced that moment.",918.22,924.6,{"idx":1020,"utterance_id":1021,"speaker_name":32,"text":1022,"start_s":1023,"end_s":1024,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},169,"86190","As a moment of great social inclusion, since the mobilizations had very diverse agendas.",925.52,931.36,{"idx":1026,"utterance_id":1027,"speaker_name":32,"text":1028,"start_s":1029,"end_s":1030,"word_count":161,"indexable":14},170,"86191","There were people there fighting for LGBT populations, people fighting for feminism, for black feminism, for teachers, against the football players—you remember those well.",931.9,941.46,{"idx":1032,"utterance_id":1033,"speaker_name":32,"text":1034,"start_s":1035,"end_s":1036,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},171,"86192","And it was a new Brazil presenting itself.",941.9,943.98,{"idx":1038,"utterance_id":1039,"speaker_name":32,"text":1040,"start_s":1041,"end_s":1042,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},172,"86193","What didn't we see there?",944.52,945.82,{"idx":1044,"utterance_id":1045,"speaker_name":32,"text":1046,"start_s":1047,"end_s":1048,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},173,"86194","That even at that time, or at least I didn't see it, there were already two avenues.",946.54,951.86,{"idx":1050,"utterance_id":1051,"speaker_name":32,"text":1052,"start_s":1053,"end_s":1054,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},174,"86195","That had no traffic light, no fork.",952.52,956.1,{"idx":1056,"utterance_id":1057,"speaker_name":32,"text":1058,"start_s":1059,"end_s":1060,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},175,"86196","They were two avenues of different agendas, with different T-shirt colors.",956.64,961.54,{"idx":1062,"utterance_id":1063,"speaker_name":32,"text":1064,"start_s":1065,"end_s":1066,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},176,"86197","It was a moment when they seized the green and yellow from a good part of Brazilians.",961.58,965.8,{"idx":1068,"utterance_id":1069,"speaker_name":32,"text":1070,"start_s":1071,"end_s":1072,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},177,"86198","I consider that we were hijacked.",965.84,967.74,{"idx":1074,"utterance_id":1075,"speaker_name":32,"text":1076,"start_s":1077,"end_s":1078,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},178,"86199","Different colors, different agendas, there was already a lot of intolerance.",969.06,973.76,{"idx":1080,"utterance_id":1081,"speaker_name":32,"text":1082,"start_s":1083,"end_s":1084,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},179,"86200","After that we had our economic and financial crisis.",974.14,977.52,{"idx":1086,"utterance_id":1087,"speaker_name":32,"text":1088,"start_s":1089,"end_s":1090,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},180,"86201","You know that crises are driven by some elements.",977.6,980.52,{"idx":1092,"utterance_id":1093,"speaker_name":32,"text":1094,"start_s":1095,"end_s":1096,"word_count":161,"indexable":14},181,"86202","Barrington Moore, whom I know is an actor you like very much, says that sometimes you have crises due to an excess of rights.",981.16,986.76,{"idx":1098,"utterance_id":1099,"speaker_name":32,"text":1100,"start_s":1101,"end_s":1102,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},182,"86203","One could say that since '88 we had been practicing a full democracy in Brazil.",987.42,992.9,{"idx":1104,"utterance_id":1105,"speaker_name":32,"text":1106,"start_s":1107,"end_s":1108,"word_count":150,"indexable":14},183,"86204","That is to say, if democracy is always an unfinished process... because you can always improve, you must win new rights every day.",993.54,1002.4,{"idx":240,"utterance_id":1110,"speaker_name":32,"text":1111,"start_s":1112,"end_s":1113,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},"86205","We had a fairly full democracy.",1002.76,1004.74,{"idx":1115,"utterance_id":1116,"speaker_name":32,"text":1117,"start_s":1118,"end_s":1119,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},185,"86206","What caused the recessionary crisis of 2015-2016?",1005.14,1008.88,{"idx":1121,"utterance_id":1122,"speaker_name":32,"text":1123,"start_s":1124,"end_s":1125,"word_count":144,"indexable":14},186,"86207","It interrupted an optimistic cycle, a virtuous cycle, as it seemed to be unfolding for Brazil, and put Brazilians first.",1009.92,1019.06,{"idx":1127,"utterance_id":1128,"speaker_name":32,"text":1129,"start_s":1130,"end_s":1131,"word_count":115,"indexable":14},187,"86208","On one hand, as Barrington Moore says, many Brazilians who had won rights wanted more rights.",1019.14,1025.58,{"idx":1133,"utterance_id":1134,"speaker_name":32,"text":1135,"start_s":1136,"end_s":1137,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},188,"86209","That was on the avenue.",1025.82,1026.92,{"idx":1139,"utterance_id":1140,"speaker_name":32,"text":1141,"start_s":1142,"end_s":1143,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},189,"86210","And others who were losing rights because of the recessionary crisis took on the role of claimants.",1027.38,1035.58,{"idx":1145,"utterance_id":1146,"speaker_name":32,"text":1147,"start_s":1148,"end_s":1149,"word_count":262,"indexable":14},190,"86211","A claimant is someone who says: I'm holding accountable for my job, I'm holding accountable for my wife, who is now independent, I'm holding accountable for my child, who has gender options different from mine, I'm holding accountable... And whose fault was it?",1036.72,1047.66,{"idx":1151,"utterance_id":1152,"speaker_name":32,"text":1153,"start_s":1154,"end_s":1155,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},191,"86212","The blame, in my opinion, lay with the new social agents and political actors.",1048.28,1051.92,{"idx":1157,"utterance_id":1158,"speaker_name":32,"text":1159,"start_s":1160,"end_s":1161,"word_count":13,"indexable":14},192,"86213","Another strong element to discuss, not of the general picture but of the particular one, is the impeachment of President Dilma.",1052.66,1059.2,{"idx":1163,"utterance_id":1164,"speaker_name":32,"text":1165,"start_s":1166,"end_s":1167,"word_count":113,"indexable":14},193,"86214","The 2016 impeachment—people can think what they want, I think it was a coup, but, in any case, what I want to discuss here is that President Dilma's impeachment.",1060,1070.38,{"idx":1169,"utterance_id":1170,"speaker_name":32,"text":1171,"start_s":1172,"end_s":1173,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},194,"86215","we were talking about patrimonialism.",1070.44,1072.1,{"idx":1175,"utterance_id":1176,"speaker_name":32,"text":1177,"start_s":1178,"end_s":1179,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},195,"86216","Our politicians' justification was not a public justification; it was a private one.",1072.54,1079.88,{"idx":1181,"utterance_id":1182,"speaker_name":32,"text":1183,"start_s":1184,"end_s":1185,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},196,"86217","Our deputies voted in the name of their mother, their child, their cousin, their city.",1080.68,1085.7,{"idx":1187,"utterance_id":1188,"speaker_name":32,"text":1189,"start_s":1190,"end_s":1191,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},197,"86218","They never dealt with the terms of the impeachment.",1085.82,1088.76,{"idx":1193,"utterance_id":1194,"speaker_name":32,"text":1195,"start_s":1196,"end_s":1197,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},198,"86219","And I think that when this process passes, Brazilians endorse that intolerance, that polarity.",1089.22,1098.96,{"idx":1199,"utterance_id":1200,"speaker_name":32,"text":1201,"start_s":1202,"end_s":1203,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},199,"86220","What is it that we're living through now?",1100.32,1102.3,{"idx":1205,"utterance_id":1206,"speaker_name":32,"text":1207,"start_s":1208,"end_s":1209,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},200,"86221","In a democracy, having adversaries is a virtuous way of exercising power.",1103.06,1109.54,{"idx":1211,"utterance_id":1212,"speaker_name":32,"text":1213,"start_s":1214,"end_s":1215,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},201,"86222","In what sense?",1109.96,1110.76,{"idx":1217,"utterance_id":1218,"speaker_name":32,"text":1219,"start_s":1220,"end_s":1221,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},202,"86223","Because democracy is constituted by difference.",1111.12,1113.86,{"idx":1223,"utterance_id":1224,"speaker_name":32,"text":1225,"start_s":1226,"end_s":1227,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},203,"86224","However, when you want to turn your adversary into an enemy, then the conversation changes.",1114.92,1121.62,{"idx":1229,"utterance_id":1230,"speaker_name":32,"text":1231,"start_s":1232,"end_s":1233,"word_count":268,"indexable":14},204,"86225","So, I think we have elements of a broader picture and very particular elements that have to do with our crisis, which was an economic crisis, but I insist, it was also a cultural crisis, a political crisis, and a social crisis.",1122.06,1137.36,{"idx":1235,"utterance_id":1236,"speaker_name":32,"text":1237,"start_s":1238,"end_s":1239,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},205,"86226","And that's what we're living through today.",1137.86,1139.58,{"idx":1241,"utterance_id":1242,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1243,"start_s":1244,"end_s":1245,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},206,"86227","What is your perception as a citizen, as a researcher?",1140.08,1143.86,{"idx":1247,"utterance_id":1248,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1249,"start_s":1250,"end_s":1251,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},207,"86228","Our environment is deteriorating, there is a real risk.",1145.18,1148.56,{"idx":1253,"utterance_id":1254,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1255,"start_s":1256,"end_s":1257,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},208,"86229","What is the attitude of political forces in terms of preserving this value?",1150.12,1154.7,{"idx":1259,"utterance_id":1260,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1261,"start_s":1262,"end_s":1263,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},209,"86230","so important for our lives, for our future.",1155.82,1158.48,{"idx":1265,"utterance_id":1266,"speaker_name":32,"text":1267,"start_s":1268,"end_s":1269,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},210,"86231","So, I think that, on the one hand, we are indeed seeing examples of how the government increasingly wants to undermine our democracy.",1158.82,1168.28,{"idx":1271,"utterance_id":1272,"speaker_name":32,"text":1273,"start_s":1274,"end_s":1275,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},211,"86232","Our chief executive didn't just say once that he's the one who is in charge.",1168.5,1172.06,{"idx":1277,"utterance_id":1278,"speaker_name":32,"text":1279,"start_s":1280,"end_s":1281,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},212,"86233","The removal of the head of INPE, wasn't it?",1173.02,1176.16,{"idx":1283,"utterance_id":1284,"speaker_name":32,"text":1285,"start_s":1286,"end_s":1287,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},213,"86234","It was a terrible case, because it's exactly an example of what you were pointing to.",1177.04,1182.52,{"idx":1289,"utterance_id":1290,"speaker_name":32,"text":1291,"start_s":1292,"end_s":1293,"word_count":191,"indexable":14},214,"86235","That is, the person speaks from... the executive's perspective, they are not considered a specialist, they are considered an enemy and therefore their head has to be cut off.",1182.6,1193.86,{"idx":1295,"utterance_id":1296,"speaker_name":32,"text":1297,"start_s":1298,"end_s":1299,"word_count":286,"indexable":14},215,"86236","These are examples; I am also trained as an anthropologist and anthropologists always think that God lives in the details, that is, that details are very significant and very symbolic and that the symbolic carries great efficacy, but these examples have been coming in growing numbers.",1194.3,1212.36,{"idx":1301,"utterance_id":1302,"speaker_name":32,"text":1303,"start_s":1304,"end_s":1305,"word_count":127,"indexable":14},216,"86237","And they show how we are at a moment when our democracy's thermometer is showing a high fever, very high.",1213.56,1221.5,{"idx":1307,"utterance_id":1308,"speaker_name":32,"text":1309,"start_s":1310,"end_s":1311,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},217,"86238","But I don't think we are at a point where there's nothing to be done.",1222.08,1225.62,{"idx":1313,"utterance_id":1314,"speaker_name":32,"text":1315,"start_s":1316,"end_s":1317,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},218,"86239","I think the opposite.",1226.42,1227.38,{"idx":1319,"utterance_id":1320,"speaker_name":32,"text":1321,"start_s":1322,"end_s":1323,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},219,"86240","We are indeed living a crisis, which is also a crisis of values.",1227.98,1231.48,{"idx":1325,"utterance_id":1326,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1327,"start_s":1328,"end_s":1329,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},220,"86241","Do you think that the Bienal episode or the May mobilizations... For education?",1231.52,1237.2,{"idx":1331,"utterance_id":1332,"speaker_name":32,"text":1333,"start_s":1334,"end_s":1335,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},221,"86242","Exactly, that's what I wanted to say.",1237.32,1238.74,{"idx":1337,"utterance_id":1338,"speaker_name":32,"text":1339,"start_s":1340,"end_s":1341,"word_count":51,"indexable":14},222,"86243","I think I was there, I also saw it on Avenida Paulista, I think we are experiencing a moment in which civil society has been called upon to express itself.",1238.84,1249.82,{"idx":1343,"utterance_id":1344,"speaker_name":32,"text":1345,"start_s":1346,"end_s":1347,"word_count":127,"indexable":14},223,"86244","And when I say 'called to express itself', at least in my perception, it's called to express itself democratically.",1250.42,1258.9,{"idx":1349,"utterance_id":1350,"speaker_name":32,"text":1351,"start_s":1352,"end_s":1353,"word_count":144,"indexable":14},224,"86245","I think democracy is flexible in that sense, that is, it must improve, it must be refined every day.",1259.34,1266.4,{"idx":1355,"utterance_id":1356,"speaker_name":32,"text":1357,"start_s":1358,"end_s":1359,"word_count":280,"indexable":14},225,"86246","So, I imagine that the May mobilizations, for example, for education... That was a wonderful moment; I couldn't attend everywhere in Brazil, because we don't have the power—our body cannot be in all places—but that was my wish.",1266.7,1279.2,{"idx":1361,"utterance_id":1362,"speaker_name":32,"text":1363,"start_s":1364,"end_s":1365,"word_count":298,"indexable":14},226,"86247","But on Avenida Paulista the atmosphere of calm was impressive; what was being asked was a very focused day; in short, what we could not imagine is that the MEC (Ministry of Education) would cut scholarships the way it is cutting them and would cut science the way it is cutting it.",1279.64,1299.58,{"idx":1367,"utterance_id":1368,"speaker_name":32,"text":1369,"start_s":1370,"end_s":1371,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},227,"86248","It was a very democratic moment, just like what happened at the Bienal.",1300.94,1304.92,{"idx":1373,"utterance_id":1374,"speaker_name":32,"text":1375,"start_s":1376,"end_s":1377,"word_count":225,"indexable":14},228,"86249","I was there; there was a march with people holding books in their hands, and they were books on varied themes, which in themselves showed a reading population and a population committed to ending censorship.",1305.54,1321.1,{"idx":1379,"utterance_id":1380,"speaker_name":32,"text":1381,"start_s":1382,"end_s":1383,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},229,"86250","It's a very strong symbol of these authoritarian governments.",1321.64,1325.16,{"idx":1385,"utterance_id":1386,"speaker_name":32,"text":1387,"start_s":1388,"end_s":1389,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},230,"86251","What do they do?",1326.08,1327.36,{"idx":1391,"utterance_id":1392,"speaker_name":32,"text":1393,"start_s":1394,"end_s":1395,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},231,"86252","They try to attack journalism, try to attack institutions, try to attack academia and, above all, profess this hysteria regarding gender issues.",1327.4,1338.76,{"idx":1397,"utterance_id":1398,"speaker_name":32,"text":1399,"start_s":1400,"end_s":1401,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},232,"86253","These are the tips of the iceberg, in my opinion.",1339.32,1341.96,{"idx":1403,"utterance_id":1404,"speaker_name":32,"text":1405,"start_s":1406,"end_s":1407,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},233,"86254","But what they show is when the government tests how far it can go with its authoritarianism.",1342.36,1348.62,{"idx":1409,"utterance_id":1410,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1411,"start_s":1412,"end_s":1413,"word_count":179,"indexable":14},234,"86255","Lili, I'm going to touch on a very delicate subject, because these are issues that are generally misunderstood and sometimes distorted, so as to be misunderstood by those listening to us.",1348.66,1366.24,{"idx":1415,"utterance_id":1416,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1417,"start_s":1418,"end_s":1419,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},235,"86256","Which is the issue of religion.",1367.54,1368.64,{"idx":1421,"utterance_id":1422,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1423,"start_s":1424,"end_s":1425,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},236,"86257","Lili, you know I'm the son of a Lebanese man.",1370.08,1373.84,{"idx":1427,"utterance_id":1428,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1429,"start_s":1430,"end_s":1431,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},237,"86258","My father was born in Lebanon and my mother is the daughter of a Lebanese man.",1375.76,1378.7,{"idx":1433,"utterance_id":1434,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1435,"start_s":1436,"end_s":1437,"word_count":191,"indexable":14},238,"86259","Therefore, I come from a region where religion is a recurring theme and much of the Syrian-Lebanese immigration to Brazil occurred for religious reasons, not only economic.",1378.76,1396.8,{"idx":1439,"utterance_id":1440,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1441,"start_s":1442,"end_s":1443,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},239,"86260","Also economic, but also religious.",1397.26,1400.18,{"idx":1445,"utterance_id":1446,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1447,"start_s":1448,"end_s":1449,"word_count":115,"indexable":14},240,"86261","They came in search of a place where there was peace, from a... religious point of view, and economic opportunities.",1401.24,1409.06,{"idx":1451,"utterance_id":1452,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1453,"start_s":1454,"end_s":1455,"word_count":115,"indexable":14},241,"86262","So I carried with me, since my childhood, the perspective of a coming together around religion.",1410.38,1419.4,{"idx":1457,"utterance_id":1458,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1459,"start_s":1460,"end_s":1461,"word_count":185,"indexable":14},242,"86263","So much so that throughout my life I was raised to value friendship with Jews, with Muslims, precisely what my family did not necessarily have in the Middle East.",1420.24,1435.74,{"idx":1463,"utterance_id":1464,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1465,"start_s":1466,"end_s":1467,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},243,"86264","So, for us, this issue of religious respect is a very important matter.",1436.28,1440.34,{"idx":1469,"utterance_id":1470,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1471,"start_s":1472,"end_s":1473,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},244,"86265","And I have a fear, and I ask myself, I ask you whether I am, in some way, being influenced by my roots.",1441.22,1453.72,{"idx":1475,"utterance_id":1476,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1477,"start_s":1478,"end_s":1479,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},245,"86266","I have a fear that this type of conflict will become established in Brazil, because I have never seen this subject discussed so much here.",1454.16,1460.64,{"idx":1481,"utterance_id":1482,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1483,"start_s":1484,"end_s":1485,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},246,"86267","So, it's the embassy question.",1461.36,1463.04,{"idx":1487,"utterance_id":1488,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1489,"start_s":1490,"end_s":1491,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},247,"86268","The move of the Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.",1464.32,1466.82,{"idx":1493,"utterance_id":1494,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1495,"start_s":1496,"end_s":1497,"word_count":79,"indexable":14},248,"86269","Which is an issue that wasn't on the national agenda.",1468.16,1471.9,{"idx":1499,"utterance_id":1500,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1501,"start_s":1502,"end_s":1503,"word_count":150,"indexable":14},249,"86270","Conflict now with the Catholic Church, regarding the Amazon synod, regarding the Pope's stance on human rights, on tolerance.",1472.78,1483.88,{"idx":1505,"utterance_id":1506,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1507,"start_s":1508,"end_s":1509,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},250,"86271","Topics foreign to our tradition, even the most remote.",1485.18,1488.82,{"idx":1511,"utterance_id":1512,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1513,"start_s":1514,"end_s":1515,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},251,"86272","Even looking back.",1491.14,1492.44,{"idx":1517,"utterance_id":1518,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1519,"start_s":1520,"end_s":1521,"word_count":179,"indexable":14},252,"86273","Religion has always had an important weight in Brazil, but religious conflicts did not gain political expression as they are gaining today, including from an electoral point of view.",1492.78,1502.82,{"idx":1523,"utterance_id":1524,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1525,"start_s":1526,"end_s":1527,"word_count":61,"indexable":14},253,"86274","Do you fear the unfolding of this kind of discourse?",1504.24,1507.74,{"idx":1529,"utterance_id":1530,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1531,"start_s":1532,"end_s":1533,"word_count":53,"indexable":14},254,"86275","Do you think this could be an issue that's here to stay in Brazil?",1507.82,1513.28,{"idx":1535,"utterance_id":1536,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1537,"start_s":1538,"end_s":1539,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},255,"86276","Or do you think it's a moment that we will be able to overcome?",1514.94,1518.04,{"idx":1541,"utterance_id":1542,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1543,"start_s":1544,"end_s":1545,"word_count":127,"indexable":14},256,"86277","What's the trend of the... It's an issue that worries me a lot, perhaps influenced, as I said, by my roots.",1519.08,1527.98,{"idx":1547,"utterance_id":1548,"speaker_name":32,"text":1549,"start_s":1550,"end_s":1551,"word_count":225,"indexable":14},257,"86278","Well, I could backfire and say, invoke Machado de Assis's old and good character, Conselheiro Ayres — the counselors used to do that, advise — who used to say that things are only predictable once they have already happened.",1529.02,1542.3,{"idx":1553,"utterance_id":1554,"speaker_name":32,"text":1555,"start_s":1556,"end_s":1557,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},258,"86279","But I'm not going to back out, I'll stay.",1543.12,1544.52,{"idx":1559,"utterance_id":1560,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1561,"start_s":1562,"end_s":1563,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},259,"86280","No, there's a speculative element here.",1545.6,1547.58,{"idx":1565,"utterance_id":1566,"speaker_name":32,"text":1567,"start_s":1568,"end_s":1569,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},260,"86281","Yes, we're going to speculate here.",1547.68,1549.06,{"idx":1571,"utterance_id":1572,"speaker_name":32,"text":1573,"start_s":1574,"end_s":1575,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},261,"86282","The first thing I think is that in a crisis, it has some good aspects, but more bad ones.",1549.98,1556.02,{"idx":1577,"utterance_id":1578,"speaker_name":32,"text":1579,"start_s":1580,"end_s":1581,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},262,"86283","In terms of understanding processes?",1556.28,1558.08,{"idx":1583,"utterance_id":1584,"speaker_name":32,"text":1585,"start_s":1586,"end_s":1587,"word_count":115,"indexable":14},263,"86284","I think so, because crises often make explicit conflicts that lie subterranean.",1558.12,1565.36,{"idx":1589,"utterance_id":1590,"speaker_name":32,"text":1591,"start_s":1592,"end_s":1593,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},264,"86285","So I would say that Brazil has always had religious conflicts, not wars.",1565.74,1570.3,{"idx":1595,"utterance_id":1596,"speaker_name":32,"text":1597,"start_s":1598,"end_s":1599,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},265,"86286","But if we think that the religions of African origin, in candomblé, required having an orixá",1570.72,1577.42,{"idx":1601,"utterance_id":1602,"speaker_name":32,"text":1603,"start_s":1604,"end_s":1605,"word_count":219,"indexable":14},266,"86287","that was compatible with a saint, because then you pretended you were praying to the saint but were worshiping your orixá, that's already a conflict, in other words, there was already a lack of recognition.",1578.1,1591.62,{"idx":1607,"utterance_id":1608,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1609,"start_s":1610,"end_s":1611,"word_count":67,"indexable":14},267,"86288","That is to say, it's the product of violence, in a way.",1591.66,1593.82,{"idx":1613,"utterance_id":1614,"speaker_name":32,"text":1615,"start_s":1616,"end_s":1617,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},268,"86289","It's another form of violence, but a very strong form of violence.",1593.92,1597.36,{"idx":1619,"utterance_id":1620,"speaker_name":32,"text":1621,"start_s":1622,"end_s":1623,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},269,"86290","If we think about the Malês' rebellion, which broke out in the 1830s in Salvador.",1597.68,1605.24,{"idx":1625,"utterance_id":1626,"speaker_name":32,"text":1627,"start_s":1628,"end_s":1629,"word_count":179,"indexable":14},270,"86291","Salvador was taken... by enslaved people of Malê origin who wrote messages on the walls that the masters couldn't recognize; they were Muslims and followed other religions.",1605.82,1621.2,{"idx":1631,"utterance_id":1632,"speaker_name":32,"text":1633,"start_s":1634,"end_s":1635,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},271,"86292","They were repressed and killed as an example.",1621.7,1625.02,{"idx":1637,"utterance_id":1638,"speaker_name":32,"text":1639,"start_s":1640,"end_s":1641,"word_count":207,"indexable":14},272,"86293","So we have — I could give several examples, perhaps the most striking is that in 1930 Getúlio Vargas, our populist president — Vargas was many things, but let's talk about his populist side.",1625.34,1639.54,{"idx":1643,"utterance_id":1644,"speaker_name":32,"text":1645,"start_s":1646,"end_s":1647,"word_count":85,"indexable":14},273,"86294","He decided to nationalize and de-Africanize capoeira and, for example, candomblé.",1640.16,1648.78,{"idx":1649,"utterance_id":1650,"speaker_name":32,"text":1651,"start_s":1652,"end_s":1653,"word_count":115,"indexable":14},274,"86295","I'm quite Levistrocian, that is, closely aligned with Levistroza, that structural anthropologist, who says what?",1651.04,1657.76,{"idx":1655,"utterance_id":1656,"speaker_name":32,"text":1657,"start_s":1658,"end_s":1659,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},275,"86296","Rules are only created if there is a desire to circumvent them.",1658.5,1663.24,{"idx":1661,"utterance_id":1662,"speaker_name":32,"text":1663,"start_s":1664,"end_s":1665,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},276,"86297","If there wasn't a problem regarding candomblé, why would Getúlio Vargas have had to pass a law?",1665.02,1669.9,{"idx":1667,"utterance_id":1668,"speaker_name":32,"text":1669,"start_s":1670,"end_s":1671,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},277,"86298","He wouldn't have had to pass a law, right?",1670.42,1671.98,{"idx":1673,"utterance_id":1674,"speaker_name":32,"text":1675,"start_s":1676,"end_s":1677,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},278,"86299","I wouldn't pass a law.",1672.02,1672.78,{"idx":1679,"utterance_id":1680,"speaker_name":32,"text":1681,"start_s":1682,"end_s":1683,"word_count":138,"indexable":14},279,"86300","It's forbidden to sit on top of the table, because none of us has that absolute desire to break that rule.",1673.12,1679.12,{"idx":1685,"utterance_id":1686,"speaker_name":32,"text":1687,"start_s":1688,"end_s":1689,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},280,"86301","We create a rule for that.",1679.16,1680.44,{"idx":1691,"utterance_id":1692,"speaker_name":32,"text":1693,"start_s":1694,"end_s":1695,"word_count":161,"indexable":14},281,"86302","And the same problem is if you pay attention to the little sign that's still there next to the elevators, which says—remember?",1681.06,1690.28,{"idx":1697,"utterance_id":1698,"speaker_name":32,"text":1699,"start_s":1700,"end_s":1701,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},282,"86303","Discrimination by race.",1690.38,1692.48,{"idx":1703,"utterance_id":1704,"speaker_name":32,"text":1705,"start_s":1706,"end_s":1707,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},283,"86304","Ethnicity, religion.",1693.32,1694.88,{"idx":1709,"utterance_id":1710,"speaker_name":32,"text":1711,"start_s":1712,"end_s":1713,"word_count":108,"indexable":14},284,"86305","That is to say, again, we have a sign that shows how much we, deep down, repress.",1695.56,1702.1,{"idx":1715,"utterance_id":1716,"speaker_name":32,"text":1717,"start_s":1718,"end_s":1719,"word_count":244,"indexable":14},285,"86306","So, I think if there is a good side to the crisis — I don't want to be Pollyanna, because in my book I'm anything but — it's that it brings to the surface aspects we didn't want to see, but that already existed.",1702.84,1717.5,{"idx":1721,"utterance_id":1722,"speaker_name":32,"text":1723,"start_s":1724,"end_s":1725,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},286,"86307","It's the same point I make about authoritarianism.",1717.98,1720.52,{"idx":1727,"utterance_id":1728,"speaker_name":32,"text":1729,"start_s":1730,"end_s":1731,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},287,"86308","We have always been authoritarian.",1720.64,1722.3,{"idx":1733,"utterance_id":1734,"speaker_name":32,"text":1735,"start_s":1736,"end_s":1737,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},288,"86309","but we liked to say that we weren't.",1722.76,1724.8,{"idx":1739,"utterance_id":1740,"speaker_name":32,"text":1741,"start_s":1742,"end_s":1743,"word_count":13,"indexable":14},289,"86310","So, I think we didn't have wars like the ones your parents went through, or that my parents went through.",1725.3,1730.6,{"idx":1745,"utterance_id":1746,"speaker_name":32,"text":1747,"start_s":1748,"end_s":1749,"word_count":121,"indexable":14},290,"86311","My family is Jewish and came here because of the Second World War.",1730.8,1736.1,{"idx":1751,"utterance_id":1752,"speaker_name":32,"text":1753,"start_s":1754,"end_s":1755,"word_count":191,"indexable":14},291,"86312","That is, my cousin Levy, who is a great writer and who committed suicide, he said that after the experience of the concentration camps, humanity would no longer be the same.",1736.68,1748.4,{"idx":1757,"utterance_id":1758,"speaker_name":32,"text":1759,"start_s":1760,"end_s":1761,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},292,"86313","So the idea was that, to come to a country... where religious conflicts didn't exist.",1748.74,1754.34,{"idx":1763,"utterance_id":1764,"speaker_name":32,"text":1765,"start_s":1766,"end_s":1767,"word_count":97,"indexable":14},293,"86314","What this government has shown is that the ferment only exists because there was an underlying reality.",1754.9,1759.52,{"idx":1769,"utterance_id":1770,"speaker_name":32,"text":1771,"start_s":1772,"end_s":1773,"word_count":73,"indexable":14},294,"86315","So much of our intolerance is based on religion.",1759.76,1763.46,{"idx":1775,"utterance_id":1776,"speaker_name":32,"text":1777,"start_s":1778,"end_s":1779,"word_count":55,"indexable":14},295,"86316","If it didn't exist, this wouldn't take root here.",1764,1767.14,{"idx":1781,"utterance_id":1782,"speaker_name":32,"text":1783,"start_s":1784,"end_s":1785,"word_count":37,"indexable":14},296,"86317","Why did it only flourish?",1767.56,1768.62,{"idx":1787,"utterance_id":1788,"speaker_name":32,"text":1789,"start_s":1790,"end_s":1791,"word_count":28,"indexable":14},297,"86318","Because it already existed, but it was silent.",1768.84,1771.08,{"idx":1793,"utterance_id":1794,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1795,"start_s":1796,"end_s":1797,"word_count":91,"indexable":14},298,"86319","Well, I could spend days here with my college classmate, Lília Schwartz.",1771.74,1775.9,{"idx":1799,"utterance_id":1800,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1801,"start_s":1802,"end_s":1803,"word_count":43,"indexable":14},299,"86320","It's a great pleasure to have you.",1776.64,1778,{"idx":1805,"utterance_id":1806,"speaker_name":32,"text":1807,"start_s":1808,"end_s":1809,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},300,"86321","The pleasure is mine.",1778.3,1778.7,{"idx":1811,"utterance_id":1812,"speaker_name":32,"text":1813,"start_s":1814,"end_s":1815,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},301,"86322","Delightful.",1778.78,1779.4,{"idx":1817,"utterance_id":1818,"speaker_name":32,"text":1819,"start_s":1820,"end_s":1821,"word_count":23,"indexable":14},302,"86323","Very much so.",1779.44,1780.08,{"idx":1823,"utterance_id":1824,"speaker_name":8,"speaker_slug":9,"text":1825,"start_s":1826,"end_s":1827,"word_count":21,"indexable":14},303,"86324","I'm sure our audience here, who watches us at 8 PM on Monday night, will get a lot out of this conversation.",1780.62,1788.02,{"idx":1829,"utterance_id":1830,"speaker_name":32,"text":1831,"start_s":1832,"end_s":1833,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},304,"86325","I'm the one who should be thanking you.",1788.08,1789.16,{"idx":1835,"utterance_id":1836,"speaker_name":32,"text":1837,"start_s":1838,"end_s":1839,"word_count":30,"indexable":14},305,"86326","Thank you very much, Lívia.",1789.2,1790.02,{"idx":1841,"utterance_id":1842,"speaker_name":32,"text":1843,"start_s":1844,"end_s":1845,"word_count":16,"indexable":14},306,"86327","Thank you.",1807.5,1807.64,"en",{"job_id":1848,"title":1849,"source_url":1850,"platform":1851,"content_type":1852,"published_at":1853,"duration_sec":1854,"n_classified":1855,"speakers":1856},"5cf8afca-56db-4d9d-9ee1-9c7aaaa8e792","Painel Haddad (21\u002F10\u002F2019) - Lilia Schwarcz","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=HC-PJPKtJLo","youtube","video","2019-10-21T23:00:12Z",1807.65025,307,[1857],{"name":8,"slug":9,"n_falas":476},"https:\u002F\u002Fi.ytimg.com\u002Fvi\u002FHC-PJPKtJLo\u002Fhqdefault.jpg",{"limit":73,"offset":6,"topics":1860,"total":1901},[1861,1865,1869,1873,1877,1881,1885,1889,1893,1897],{"label":1862,"n_speakers":167,"n_utterances":1863,"n_videos":1145,"slug":1864},"National Security",2695,"seguranca-nacional",{"label":1866,"n_speakers":113,"n_utterances":1867,"n_videos":1379,"slug":1868},"Education",1685,"educacao",{"label":1870,"n_speakers":150,"n_utterances":1871,"n_videos":1469,"slug":1872},"Public Safety and Order",1580,"seguranca-publica-e-ordem",{"label":1874,"n_speakers":207,"n_utterances":1875,"n_videos":1757,"slug":1876},"Combating Impunity",1469,"combate-a-impunidade",{"label":1878,"n_speakers":113,"n_utterances":1879,"n_videos":1823,"slug":1880},"Monetary Policy",1448,"politica-monetaria",{"label":1882,"n_speakers":150,"n_utterances":1883,"n_videos":901,"slug":1884},"Judiciary",846,"poder-judiciario",{"label":1886,"n_speakers":179,"n_utterances":1887,"n_videos":1074,"slug":1888},"Public Service",788,"servico-publico",{"label":1890,"n_speakers":161,"n_utterances":1891,"n_videos":841,"slug":1892},"Public Health \u002F Public Safety",756,"saude-publica-seguranca-publica",{"label":1894,"n_speakers":179,"n_utterances":1895,"n_videos":1187,"slug":1896},"Social Policy",684,"politica-social",{"label":1898,"n_speakers":144,"n_utterances":1899,"n_videos":811,"slug":1900},"Fiscal Reform",671,"reforma-fiscal",625,{"limit":73,"offset":6,"speakers":1903,"total":231},[1904,1918,1931,1942,1948,1959,1970,1979,1986,1995],{"slug":1905,"name":1906,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1907,"n_speeches":1908,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1909,"photo_url":1913,"bio_short":1907,"wikidata_id":1914,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1916},"renan-santos","Renan Santos","",22525,[1910,1911,1912],"Abuse of Authority","Administrative and Labor Reform","Affirmative action","\u002Fprofiles\u002Frenan-santos\u002Fphoto.png","Q51882553","none",{"twitter":1917},"@RenanSantosMBL",{"slug":1919,"name":1920,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1921,"n_speeches":1922,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1923,"photo_url":1927,"bio_short":1907,"wikidata_id":1928,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1929},"romeu-zema","Romeu Zema","MG",12888,[1924,1925,1926],"Agriculture & Agribusiness","Amnesty and Jan 8 Characterization","Anti-Discrimination","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fromeu-zema\u002Fphoto.png","Q57092113",{"twitter":1930},"@RomeuZema",{"slug":1932,"name":1933,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1907,"n_speeches":1934,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1935,"bio_short":1907,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1939},"pablo-marcal","Pablo Marçal",12772,[1936,1937,1938],"Agricultural Policy","Business Environment","Campaign Financing",{"twitter":1940,"youtube":1941},"@pablomarcal","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002F@pablomarcall",{"slug":9,"name":8,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1943,"n_speeches":1944,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1945,"bio_short":1907,"wikidata_id":1946,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1947},"SP",12647,[1936,1924,1926],"Q3069485",{},{"slug":1949,"name":1950,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1951,"n_speeches":1952,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1953,"photo_url":1955,"bio_short":1907,"wikidata_id":1956,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1957},"ronaldo-caiado","Ronaldo Caiado","GO",12538,[1911,1912,1954],"Agribusiness & Regional Development","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fronaldo-caiado\u002Fphoto.png","Q10364348",{"twitter":1958},"@ronaldocaiado",{"slug":1960,"name":1961,"party":1907,"role":1962,"state":1943,"n_speeches":1963,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1964,"photo_url":1966,"bio_short":1907,"wikidata_id":1967,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1968},"tarcisio","Tarcisio","Governador",11298,[1965,1936,1924],"Age of Criminal Responsibility","\u002Fprofiles\u002Ftarcisio\u002Fphoto.png","Q60392579",{"twitter":1969},"tarcisiogdf",{"slug":1971,"name":1972,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1907,"n_speeches":1973,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1974,"photo_url":1976,"bio_short":1907,"wikidata_id":1977,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1978},"luis-inacio-lula-da-silva","Luis Inacio Lula da Silva",10531,[1936,1924,1975],"Benefits fraud & efficiency","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fluis-inacio-lula-da-silva\u002Fphoto.png","Q37181",{},{"slug":1980,"name":1981,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1907,"n_speeches":1982,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1983,"bio_short":1907,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1985},"augusto-cury","Augusto Cury",8912,[1954,1984,1936],"Agribusiness \u002F Environment",{},{"slug":1987,"name":1988,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1943,"n_speeches":1989,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":1990,"photo_url":1991,"bio_short":1907,"wikidata_id":1992,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":1993},"kim-kataguiri","Kim Kataguiri",8748,[1911,1965,1924],"\u002Fprofiles\u002Fkim-kataguiri\u002Fphoto.png","Q21715169",{"twitter":1994},"@KimKataguiri",{"slug":1996,"name":1997,"party":1907,"role":1907,"state":1998,"n_speeches":1999,"consistency_score":6,"top_topics":2000,"photo_url":2002,"bio_short":1907,"wikidata_id":2003,"mandate_status":1915,"social_links":2004},"flavio-bolsonaro","Flavio Bolsonaro","RJ",8066,[1936,1924,2001],"Anti-Fascism","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fflavio-bolsonaro\u002Fphoto.png","Q10283057",{"twitter":2005},"@FlavioBolsonaro"]