[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":-1},["ShallowReactive",2],{"footer-top-topics-en":3,"footer-top-speakers-en":65,"transcript-5c058617-9a50-44b8-aac8-ae3997d22836-en":172,"transcript-poster-5c058617-9a50-44b8-aac8-ae3997d22836":7395},{"limit":4,"offset":5,"topics":6,"total":64},10,0,[7,13,19,25,31,36,41,47,53,58],{"label":8,"n_speakers":9,"n_utterances":10,"n_videos":11,"slug":12},"National Security",26,2695,190,"seguranca-nacional",{"label":14,"n_speakers":15,"n_utterances":16,"n_videos":17,"slug":18},"Education",32,1685,229,"educacao",{"label":20,"n_speakers":21,"n_utterances":22,"n_videos":23,"slug":24},"Public Safety and Order",23,1580,244,"seguranca-publica-e-ordem",{"label":26,"n_speakers":27,"n_utterances":28,"n_videos":29,"slug":30},"Combating Impunity",33,1469,292,"combate-a-impunidade",{"label":32,"n_speakers":15,"n_utterances":33,"n_videos":34,"slug":35},"Monetary 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Authority","Administrative and Labor Reform","Affirmative action","\u002Fprofiles\u002Frenan-santos\u002Fphoto.png","Q51882553","none",{"twitter":80},"@RenanSantosMBL",{"slug":82,"name":83,"party":70,"role":70,"state":84,"n_speeches":85,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":86,"photo_url":90,"bio_short":70,"wikidata_id":91,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":92},"romeu-zema","Romeu Zema","MG",12888,[87,88,89],"Agriculture & Agribusiness","Amnesty and Jan 8 Characterization","Anti-Discrimination","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fromeu-zema\u002Fphoto.png","Q57092113",{"twitter":93},"@RomeuZema",{"slug":95,"name":96,"party":70,"role":70,"state":70,"n_speeches":97,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":98,"bio_short":70,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":102},"pablo-marcal","Pablo Marçal",12772,[99,100,101],"Agricultural Policy","Business Environment","Campaign Financing",{"twitter":103,"youtube":104},"@pablomarcal","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002F@pablomarcall",{"slug":106,"name":107,"party":70,"role":70,"state":108,"n_speeches":109,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":110,"bio_short":70,"wikidata_id":111,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":112},"fernando-haddad","Fernando Haddad","SP",12647,[99,87,89],"Q3069485",{},{"slug":114,"name":115,"party":70,"role":70,"state":116,"n_speeches":117,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":118,"photo_url":120,"bio_short":70,"wikidata_id":121,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":122},"ronaldo-caiado","Ronaldo Caiado","GO",12538,[74,75,119],"Agribusiness & Regional Development","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fronaldo-caiado\u002Fphoto.png","Q10364348",{"twitter":123},"@ronaldocaiado",{"slug":125,"name":126,"party":70,"role":127,"state":108,"n_speeches":128,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":129,"photo_url":131,"bio_short":70,"wikidata_id":132,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":133},"tarcisio","Tarcisio","Governador",11298,[130,99,87],"Age of Criminal Responsibility","\u002Fprofiles\u002Ftarcisio\u002Fphoto.png","Q60392579",{"twitter":134},"tarcisiogdf",{"slug":136,"name":137,"party":70,"role":70,"state":70,"n_speeches":138,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":139,"photo_url":141,"bio_short":70,"wikidata_id":142,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":143},"luis-inacio-lula-da-silva","Luis Inacio Lula da Silva",10531,[99,87,140],"Benefits fraud & efficiency","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fluis-inacio-lula-da-silva\u002Fphoto.png","Q37181",{},{"slug":145,"name":146,"party":70,"role":70,"state":70,"n_speeches":147,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":148,"bio_short":70,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":150},"augusto-cury","Augusto Cury",8912,[119,149,99],"Agribusiness \u002F Environment",{},{"slug":152,"name":153,"party":70,"role":70,"state":108,"n_speeches":154,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":155,"photo_url":156,"bio_short":70,"wikidata_id":157,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":158},"kim-kataguiri","Kim Kataguiri",8748,[74,130,87],"\u002Fprofiles\u002Fkim-kataguiri\u002Fphoto.png","Q21715169",{"twitter":159},"@KimKataguiri",{"slug":161,"name":162,"party":70,"role":70,"state":163,"n_speeches":164,"consistency_score":5,"top_topics":165,"photo_url":167,"bio_short":70,"wikidata_id":168,"mandate_status":78,"social_links":169},"flavio-bolsonaro","Flavio Bolsonaro","RJ",8066,[99,87,166],"Anti-Fascism","\u002Fprofiles\u002Fflavio-bolsonaro\u002Fphoto.png","Q10283057",{"twitter":170},"@FlavioBolsonaro",37,{"falas":173,"lang":7384,"meta":7385},[174,181,188,195,202,209,215,220,226,231,238,244,251,257,263,269,274,280,286,291,298,305,311,317,323,329,334,340,346,351,356,361,366,371,376,382,388,394,399,405,411,417,423,429,435,441,446,452,458,464,470,476,481,486,492,498,504,510,515,521,527,533,539,545,551,558,564,570,575,581,587,593,599,605,611,617,623,629,635,641,647,653,659,665,671,677,683,689,695,701,707,713,719,725,731,736,742,748,753,759,765,771,777,783,788,794,800,806,812,818,824,830,836,842,848,854,860,866,871,877,883,889,895,901,907,913,919,925,931,937,943,949,955,961,967,972,978,984,990,996,1001,1007,1013,1019,1025,1031,1037,1043,1049,1055,1060,1066,1071,1077,1083,1089,1095,1101,1107,1113,1119,1125,1131,1137,1143,1149,1155,1161,1167,1173,1179,1185,1191,1197,1203,1209,1215,1221,1227,1232,1238,1244,1250,1256,1262,1268,1274,1280,1286,1292,1298,1303,1309,1315,1321,1327,1333,1339,1344,1350,1356,1362,1368,1374,1380,1386,1392,1398,1404,1410,1416,1422,1428,1434,1440,1446,1452,1458,1464,1470,1476,1482,1488,1494,1500,1506,1511,1517,1523,1529,1534,1539,1545,1551,1557,1563,1569,1575,1581,1587,1593,1599,1605,1611,1617,1622,1628,1634,1640,1646,1652,1658,1664,1670,1676,1682,1688,1694,1700,1706,1712,1718,1724,1730,1736,1742,1748,1754,1760,1766,1772,1778,1784,1790,1796,1802,1808,1814,1820,1826,1832,1838,1844,1850,1856,1862,1868,1874,1880,1886,1892,1898,1904,1909,1915,1921,1927,1933,1939,1945,1951,1957,1963,1969,1974,1980,1986,1992,1998,2004,2010,2016,2022,2028,2034,2040,2046,2052,2058,2064,2070,2076,2082,2088,2094,2100,2106,2112,2118,2124,2130,2136,2142,2148,2154,2160,2166,2172,2178,2184,2190,2196,2202,2208,2214,2220,2226,2232,2238,2244,2250,2256,2262,2268,2274,2280,2286,2292,2298,2304,2310,2316,2322,2328,2334,2340,2346,2352,2358,2364,2370,2376,2382,2388,2394,2400,2406,2412,2418,2424,2430,2436,2442,2448,2454,2460,2466,2472,2478,2484,2490,2496,2502,2508,2514,2520,2526,2532,2538,2544,2550,2556,2562,2568,2574,2580,2586,2592,2598,2604,2610,2616,2622,2628,2634,2640,2646,2652,2658,2664,2670,2676,2682,2688,2694,2700,2706,2712,2718,2724,2730,2736,2742,2748,2754,2759,2765,2771,2777,2783,2789,2795,2801,2807,2813,2819,2825,2831,2837,2843,2849,2855,2861,2867,2873,2879,2885,2891,2897,2903,2909,2915,2921,2927,2933,2939,2945,2951,2957,2963,2969,2975,2981,2987,2993,2999,3005,3011,3017,3023,3029,3035,3041,3047,3053,3059,3065,3071,3077,3083,3089,3095,3101,3107,3113,3119,3125,3131,3137,3143,3149,3155,3161,3167,3173,3179,3185,3191,3197,3203,3209,3215,3221,3227,3233,3239,3245,3251,3257,3263,3269,3275,3281,3287,3293,3299,3305,3311,3317,3323,3329,3335,3341,3347,3353,3359,3365,3371,3377,3383,3389,3395,3401,3407,3413,3419,3425,3431,3437,3443,3449,3455,3461,3467,3473,3479,3485,3491,3497,3503,3509,3515,3521,3527,3533,3539,3545,3551,3557,3563,3569,3575,3581,3587,3593,3599,3605,3611,3617,3623,3629,3635,3641,3647,3653,3659,3665,3671,3677,3683,3689,3695,3701,3707,3713,3719,3725,3731,3737,3743,3749,3755,3761,3767,3773,3779,3785,3791,3797,3803,3809,3815,3821,3827,3833,3839,3845,3851,3857,3863,3869,3875,3881,3887,3893,3899,3904,3910,3916,3922,3928,3934,3940,3946,3952,3958,3964,3970,3976,3982,3988,3994,4000,4006,4012,4018,4024,4030,4036,4042,4048,4054,4060,4066,4072,4078,4084,4090,4096,4102,4108,4114,4120,4126,4132,4138,4144,4150,4156,4162,4168,4174,4179,4185,4191,4197,4203,4209,4215,4221,4227,4233,4239,4245,4251,4256,4262,4268,4274,4280,4286,4292,4298,4304,4310,4316,4322,4328,4334,4340,4346,4352,4358,4364,4370,4376,4382,4388,4394,4400,4406,4412,4418,4424,4430,4436,4442,4448,4454,4460,4466,4472,4478,4484,4490,4496,4502,4508,4514,4520,4526,4532,4538,4544,4550,4556,4562,4568,4574,4580,4586,4592,4598,4604,4610,4616,4622,4628,4634,4640,4646,4652,4658,4664,4670,4676,4682,4687,4693,4699,4705,4711,4717,4723,4729,4735,4741,4747,4752,4758,4764,4770,4776,4782,4788,4794,4800,4806,4812,4818,4824,4830,4836,4842,4848,4854,4860,4866,4872,4877,4883,4889,4895,4901,4907,4913,4918,4924,4930,4936,4942,4948,4954,4960,4966,4972,4977,4983,4989,4995,5001,5007,5013,5019,5025,5031,5037,5043,5049,5055,5061,5067,5073,5079,5085,5091,5097,5103,5109,5115,5121,5127,5133,5139,5145,5151,5157,5163,5169,5174,5180,5186,5192,5198,5204,5210,5216,5221,5227,5233,5239,5245,5251,5257,5263,5268,5274,5280,5286,5292,5298,5304,5310,5316,5322,5328,5334,5340,5346,5352,5358,5364,5370,5376,5382,5388,5394,5400,5406,5412,5418,5424,5430,5436,5442,5448,5454,5460,5466,5472,5478,5484,5490,5496,5502,5508,5514,5520,5526,5532,5538,5544,5550,5556,5562,5568,5574,5580,5586,5592,5598,5604,5610,5616,5622,5628,5634,5640,5646,5652,5658,5664,5670,5676,5682,5688,5694,5700,5706,5712,5718,5724,5730,5736,5742,5748,5754,5760,5766,5772,5778,5784,5790,5796,5802,5808,5814,5820,5826,5832,5838,5844,5850,5856,5862,5868,5874,5880,5886,5892,5898,5904,5910,5916,5922,5928,5934,5940,5946,5952,5958,5963,5969,5974,5980,5986,5992,5998,6004,6010,6016,6022,6028,6034,6040,6046,6052,6058,6064,6070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evening, we are starting now another Roda Viva, the interview and debate program of TV Cultura of São Paulo.",37.34,43.86,false,{"idx":182,"utterance_id":183,"speaker_name":176,"text":184,"start_s":185,"end_s":186,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},1,"211160","Tonight, our interviewee is Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, the president of PT (Workers' Party).",44.18,50.32,18,{"idx":189,"utterance_id":190,"speaker_name":176,"text":191,"start_s":192,"end_s":193,"word_count":194,"indexable":180},2,"211161","And to take part in this Roda Viva tonight, with us are Ricardo Cotio, journalist for Jornal do Brasil; Lenildo Tabosa Pessoa, journalist for Jornal da Tarde; Boris Casoy, journalist for Folha de São Paulo; Marcelo Rezende, journalist for Placar magazine; Fernando Moraes, journalist, writer and deputy.",50.66,70.08,45,{"idx":196,"utterance_id":197,"speaker_name":176,"text":198,"start_s":199,"end_s":200,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},3,"211162","Carlos Nascimento, journalist for TV Globo.",70.64,73.14,6,{"idx":203,"utterance_id":204,"speaker_name":176,"text":205,"start_s":206,"end_s":207,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},4,"211163","Hamilton de Souza, journalist for Retrato do Brasil.",73.58,76.5,8,{"idx":210,"utterance_id":211,"speaker_name":176,"text":212,"start_s":213,"end_s":214,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},5,"211164","Sandra Guerra, journalist for Rádio Eldorado.",77.06,79.7,{"idx":201,"utterance_id":216,"speaker_name":176,"text":217,"start_s":218,"end_s":219,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},"211165","Walter Barelli, director of Diese.",80.26,82.8,{"idx":221,"utterance_id":222,"speaker_name":176,"text":223,"start_s":224,"end_s":225,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},7,"211166","Júlio Lobos, economist and consultant to large and multinational companies in the area of advisory services for employers' negotiations with workers.",83.44,92.12,{"idx":208,"utterance_id":227,"speaker_name":176,"text":228,"start_s":229,"end_s":230,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},"211167","And also Floreal Rodrigues, journalist for Exame magazine.",92.64,96.22,{"idx":232,"utterance_id":233,"speaker_name":176,"text":234,"start_s":235,"end_s":236,"word_count":237,"indexable":180},9,"211168","And I'd like to remind you watching Roda Viva at home that by telephone 252-6525, 252-6525, you can ask any question to Lula; Ângela, Isa and Ana will write down the question, pass it to me and I will ask your question to the president of the Workers' Party.",97,115.38,51,{"idx":4,"utterance_id":239,"speaker_name":176,"text":240,"start_s":241,"end_s":242,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},"211169","Well, Lula, there are today in Brazil three leaders capable of assuming... the role of main critics of the reform of the Cruzado Plan, which apparently did not please the Brazilian population.",116.28,130.7,29,{"idx":245,"utterance_id":246,"speaker_name":176,"text":247,"start_s":248,"end_s":249,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},11,"211170","There is great discontent among the various segments of the Brazilian population with the reform of the Cruzado Plan.",131.3,135.76,15,{"idx":252,"utterance_id":253,"speaker_name":176,"text":254,"start_s":255,"end_s":256,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},12,"211171","These three leaders would be, first, the governor of Rio de Janeiro, Leonel Brizola.",136.02,140.22,{"idx":258,"utterance_id":259,"speaker_name":176,"text":260,"start_s":261,"end_s":262,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},13,"211172","He is a defeated man.",140.52,141.36,{"idx":264,"utterance_id":265,"speaker_name":176,"text":266,"start_s":267,"end_s":268,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},14,"211173","Secondly, the former minister Delfim Neto.",142.58,145.26,{"idx":250,"utterance_id":270,"speaker_name":176,"text":271,"start_s":272,"end_s":273,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},"211174","He won the election, but he is a man who represents a regime that has been much changed, an old regime.",145.42,150.76,{"idx":275,"utterance_id":276,"speaker_name":176,"text":277,"start_s":278,"end_s":279,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},16,"211175","And the third person is you.",151,152.3,{"idx":281,"utterance_id":282,"speaker_name":176,"text":283,"start_s":284,"end_s":285,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},17,"211176","Have you considered the possibility, are you interested, do you intend to do this, to assume this national leadership of criticism of the economic regime, of the economic situation we live in today in Brazil?",154.36,164.76,{"idx":187,"utterance_id":287,"speaker_name":176,"text":288,"start_s":289,"end_s":290,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},"211177","Look, Gamberino, I think it's not even a question of us considering taking it on.",165.26,169.08,{"idx":292,"utterance_id":293,"speaker_name":176,"text":294,"start_s":295,"end_s":296,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},19,"211178","I think it is our duty to assume the role of critic, because I believe there will be no democracy in a country if everyone is saying amen to those in government.",169.18,179.8,31,{"idx":299,"utterance_id":300,"speaker_name":176,"text":301,"start_s":302,"end_s":303,"word_count":304,"indexable":180},20,"211179","On our part, we have a clear conscience, because in February of this year, when the package was announced, we said that the package had electoral objectives; we said the government needed to go deeper and allow the trade union movement the minimum possibility to control companies so there would be no window-dressing of products, so there would be no tax evasion by some producers, and we said the government would not be able to control prices because profiteering would run rampant.",180.38,208.28,94,{"idx":306,"utterance_id":307,"speaker_name":176,"text":308,"start_s":309,"end_s":310,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},21,"211180","Everything we said on March 3, 1986 happened during the period.",208.82,213.82,{"idx":60,"utterance_id":312,"speaker_name":176,"text":313,"start_s":314,"end_s":315,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},"211181","Obviously the mass promotion of the economic package led many people to delude themselves that the economic package would solve the problems of the entire working class.",214.5,223.86,30,{"idx":21,"utterance_id":318,"speaker_name":176,"text":319,"start_s":320,"end_s":321,"word_count":322,"indexable":180},"211182","And today, with the other economic package announced this week by the government, it leads people — not only Brizola, Delfim, Lula and others, but people from the PMDB, like Mário Covas today — whose interviews I've grown tired of watching, to say that the way it was announced had not been prudent.",224.52,242.68,52,{"idx":324,"utterance_id":325,"speaker_name":176,"text":326,"start_s":327,"end_s":328,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},24,"211183","And the gravest thing about these packages, Gamberino, is something the people are relegating to the background.",243.06,247.16,{"idx":49,"utterance_id":330,"speaker_name":176,"text":331,"start_s":332,"end_s":333,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},"211184","It is that this is the fourth economic package that the new republic is implementing by decree-law.",247.82,252.38,{"idx":9,"utterance_id":335,"speaker_name":176,"text":336,"start_s":337,"end_s":338,"word_count":339,"indexable":180},"211185","And if we had taken a bit of care to analyze what everyone in this country said about the use of decree-law by the military government, a civilian government could never use decree-law in the way it is being used.",253.04,267.12,40,{"idx":341,"utterance_id":342,"speaker_name":176,"text":343,"start_s":344,"end_s":345,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},27,"211186","And I think that if the government brings or sends a plan for the President of the Republic to sign...",267.6,273.66,{"idx":43,"utterance_id":347,"speaker_name":176,"text":348,"start_s":349,"end_s":350,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},"211187","And that plan, signed in the form of a decree-law, is a total disrespect that the government shows to the National Congress, which should be strengthened, since there is so much talk of democracy in this country.",273.9,284.68,{"idx":243,"utterance_id":352,"speaker_name":176,"text":353,"start_s":354,"end_s":355,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},"211188","And if the plan is good for the people, nothing would be fairer than the National Congress, in that so-called 'concentrated effort' they invented, approving or not approving the economic plan.",284.96,294.56,{"idx":316,"utterance_id":357,"speaker_name":176,"text":358,"start_s":359,"end_s":360,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},"211189","The concrete fact is that the plan solves the government's problems much more",294.66,298.36,{"idx":297,"utterance_id":362,"speaker_name":176,"text":363,"start_s":364,"end_s":365,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},"211190","than the problems of Brazilian society.",298.74,300.4,{"idx":15,"utterance_id":367,"speaker_name":176,"text":368,"start_s":369,"end_s":370,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},"211191","Lenildo Tabosa wants to speak.",300.56,302.88,{"idx":27,"utterance_id":372,"speaker_name":176,"text":373,"start_s":374,"end_s":375,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},"211192","PT (Workers' Party) has been opposing the plan since February.",302.9,305.08,{"idx":377,"utterance_id":378,"speaker_name":176,"text":379,"start_s":380,"end_s":381,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},34,"211193","Now in November the people voted massively for the government and evidently it was largely under the influence of the plan.",305.78,312.64,{"idx":383,"utterance_id":384,"speaker_name":176,"text":385,"start_s":386,"end_s":387,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},35,"211194","Wouldn't that mean that the people think one way and the PT (Workers' Party) another?",313.22,316.64,{"idx":389,"utterance_id":390,"speaker_name":176,"text":391,"start_s":392,"end_s":393,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},36,"211195","Or are the people on one side and the PT (Workers' Party) on the other?",316.8,318.5,{"idx":171,"utterance_id":395,"speaker_name":176,"text":396,"start_s":397,"end_s":398,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},"211196","Look, it is not the first time that people who are right lose an election.",318.82,322.42,{"idx":400,"utterance_id":401,"speaker_name":176,"text":402,"start_s":403,"end_s":404,"word_count":389,"indexable":180},38,"211197","I remember that when the PMDB was created in 1966, the PMDB was fully justified in criticizing the military regime and only began to win some elections from 1974 onward.",323.08,338.3,{"idx":406,"utterance_id":407,"speaker_name":176,"text":408,"start_s":409,"end_s":410,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},39,"211198","I think, Lenildo, that you as a journalist know perfectly well that the opportunities of those who defend and those who attack are not the same.",338.42,345.62,{"idx":339,"utterance_id":412,"speaker_name":176,"text":413,"start_s":414,"end_s":415,"word_count":416,"indexable":180},"211199","If you imagine the television space we had to be against the economic plan, you will, as a journalist, realize that there was none compared to the vast majority of television space that the New Republic had, that the government had, that Minister Dilsonário, João Sayada and Almir Pazenotto had to sell it.",346.2,363.36,53,{"idx":418,"utterance_id":419,"speaker_name":176,"text":420,"start_s":421,"end_s":422,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},41,"211200","The golden-egg hen, which didn't have golden eggs at all, was just an ordinary hen, you know, that had worked momentarily, but measures of greater impact were needed to be able to control that.",363.98,375.3,{"idx":424,"utterance_id":425,"speaker_name":176,"text":426,"start_s":427,"end_s":428,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},42,"211201","And then the trade union movement was put in the background.",375.7,378.92,{"idx":430,"utterance_id":431,"speaker_name":176,"text":432,"start_s":433,"end_s":434,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},43,"211202","There was no opportunity for the trade union movement to exercise control.",379.3,381.84,{"idx":436,"utterance_id":437,"speaker_name":176,"text":438,"start_s":439,"end_s":440,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},44,"211203","You see that now, for example, the second economic package is being launched.",382.26,385.46,{"idx":194,"utterance_id":442,"speaker_name":176,"text":443,"start_s":444,"end_s":445,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},"211204","Minister Dias Funaro has already used television and radio.",385.94,388.8,{"idx":447,"utterance_id":448,"speaker_name":176,"text":449,"start_s":450,"end_s":451,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},46,"211205","He will use them again and the President of the Republic will use them once more in an attempt to justify the unjustifiable.",389.12,395.32,{"idx":453,"utterance_id":454,"speaker_name":176,"text":455,"start_s":456,"end_s":457,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},47,"211206","I think this plan was a flawed plan.",395.72,398.54,{"idx":459,"utterance_id":460,"speaker_name":176,"text":461,"start_s":462,"end_s":463,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},48,"211207","I think that the first plan, the principles of the first plan, were correct.",399.02,403.52,{"idx":465,"utterance_id":466,"speaker_name":176,"text":467,"start_s":468,"end_s":469,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},49,"211208","The attempt to freeze prices was a demand since you were a boy and you know that perfectly well.",403.86,410.32,{"idx":471,"utterance_id":472,"speaker_name":176,"text":473,"start_s":474,"end_s":475,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},50,"211209","And it had an impact on public opinion, but over time people began to realize that prices were not being controlled as the government claimed on television.",410.78,419.84,{"idx":237,"utterance_id":477,"speaker_name":176,"text":478,"start_s":479,"end_s":480,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},"211210","When do you think the government effectively began to lose control of the Cruzado Plan and that it began to founder?",421.16,427.84,{"idx":322,"utterance_id":482,"speaker_name":176,"text":483,"start_s":484,"end_s":485,"word_count":436,"indexable":180},"211211","Look, I think it was when the government did not allow the trade union movement the minimum freedom to be able to control some companies that were window-dressing, and when the government tried to convince the working class that it had improved its standard of living.",428.26,444.32,{"idx":416,"utterance_id":487,"speaker_name":176,"text":488,"start_s":489,"end_s":490,"word_count":491,"indexable":180},"211212","And anyone who goes to the factory gate, and you as a journalist who has been at the factory gate, you perceive today — and I want to take the opportunity to say — that possibly the climate of dissatisfaction today at the factory gate, in commerce and in banks is the same climate of dissatisfaction that generated the strikes of 1978.",444.94,463.4,57,{"idx":493,"utterance_id":494,"speaker_name":176,"text":495,"start_s":496,"end_s":497,"word_count":453,"indexable":180},54,"211213","I think that if the government does not take urgent measures to revise some of its rhetoric and stop trying to pursue the kind of politics Murilo Macedo used some time ago — it was Rubinho's policy, that is, the policy of taking from the rich to give to the poor —",463.6,476.28,{"idx":499,"utterance_id":500,"speaker_name":176,"text":501,"start_s":502,"end_s":503,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},55,"211214","And the government is not taking from the rich, the government is taking from the guy who ceased to be miserable, from the comrade who managed to earn 10 minimum wages.",476.66,483.62,{"idx":505,"utterance_id":506,"speaker_name":176,"text":507,"start_s":508,"end_s":509,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},56,"211215","That is to say, it is tampering with a considerable slice of Brazilian society, when it should have the courage to go after the richest 5% of the population, target the large companies, the big landowners, the big merchants and leave the middle class",483.64,497.32,{"idx":491,"utterance_id":511,"speaker_name":176,"text":512,"start_s":513,"end_s":514,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},"211216","at least continuing to eat, something the government is not doing.",497.9,501.3,{"idx":516,"utterance_id":517,"speaker_name":176,"text":518,"start_s":519,"end_s":520,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},58,"211217","I say the following: given this whole election, what can be concluded from this election is that Governor Brizola already had a brief courtship with PT (Workers' Party) in Rio — it was talked about a lot, then it was talked about at the national level.",501.5,516.84,{"idx":522,"utterance_id":523,"speaker_name":176,"text":524,"start_s":525,"end_s":526,"word_count":377,"indexable":180},59,"211218","Do you believe that there may now indeed be an alliance between the PT (Workers' Party) and the PDT through you and Governor Brizola, in order to form an opposition front already in this new Constituent Congress?",517.36,531.54,{"idx":528,"utterance_id":529,"speaker_name":176,"text":530,"start_s":531,"end_s":532,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},60,"211219","Look, we are a political party that is willing to talk with the PDT; we are willing to talk with other political forces that are concerned with pursuing a policy that reflects our seriousness.",531.88,542.9,{"idx":534,"utterance_id":535,"speaker_name":176,"text":536,"start_s":537,"end_s":538,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},61,"211220","And we will be willing to talk with Governor Leonel Brizola, because we respect him as a political leader.",543.62,549.06,{"idx":540,"utterance_id":541,"speaker_name":176,"text":542,"start_s":543,"end_s":544,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},62,"211221","but we are not willing to talk with the caudillo, Brizola.",549.72,552.84,{"idx":546,"utterance_id":547,"speaker_name":176,"text":548,"start_s":549,"end_s":550,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},63,"211222","That is, we understand that in politics no one can dominate another; it is necessary to talk on equal terms.",553.04,559.24,{"idx":552,"utterance_id":553,"speaker_name":176,"text":554,"start_s":555,"end_s":556,"word_count":557,"indexable":180},64,"211223","And if the PDT is willing to talk with the PT (Workers' Party) — and I state here that we of the PT (Workers' Party) are interested in talking with the PDT — we are interested in discussing with the PDT a tactical alliance to be used in the Constituent Congress; we are interested in working together with the PDT in the same way we work in the trade union movement, you know, alongside this country's social struggles.",559.92,580.12,67,{"idx":559,"utterance_id":560,"speaker_name":176,"text":561,"start_s":562,"end_s":563,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},65,"211224","If there is that willingness, you can be sure that we will be willing to make those alliances.",580.36,585.92,{"idx":565,"utterance_id":566,"speaker_name":176,"text":567,"start_s":568,"end_s":569,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},66,"211225","And do you believe that Governor Brizola lost the election in Rio?",585.94,590.1,{"idx":557,"utterance_id":571,"speaker_name":176,"text":572,"start_s":573,"end_s":574,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},"211226","In what way?",590.58,591.16,{"idx":576,"utterance_id":577,"speaker_name":176,"text":578,"start_s":579,"end_s":580,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},68,"211227","Exactly because he was the party in Rio and, therefore, everything concentrated on him?",591.2,596.74,{"idx":582,"utterance_id":583,"speaker_name":176,"text":584,"start_s":585,"end_s":586,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},69,"211228","Or at the moment when the people, satisfied with the Cruzado Plan, and he turned clearly against the Cruzado Plan, polarizing the discussion around it?",597.04,605.4,{"idx":588,"utterance_id":589,"speaker_name":176,"text":590,"start_s":591,"end_s":592,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},70,"211229","I think that Governor Brizola... I don't know the administration of Rio de Janeiro and I would hesitate to say whether that is the only reason that led Governor Leonel Brizola to lose the elections.",605.82,614.82,{"idx":594,"utterance_id":595,"speaker_name":176,"text":596,"start_s":597,"end_s":598,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},71,"211230","I think that Governor Leonel Brizola... without knowing the other mistakes or the successes of the administration.",615.58,620.66,{"idx":600,"utterance_id":601,"speaker_name":176,"text":602,"start_s":603,"end_s":604,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},72,"211231","He made, in my opinion, a very serious mistake when he tried to center President Sarney as the main enemy.",621.14,628.8,{"idx":606,"utterance_id":607,"speaker_name":176,"text":608,"start_s":609,"end_s":610,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},73,"211232","I think he could have made criticisms of the economic package, many of them justified, without trying to attack the figure, the person of President Sarney as the central figure deserving of criticism.",629.6,642.64,{"idx":612,"utterance_id":613,"speaker_name":176,"text":614,"start_s":615,"end_s":616,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},74,"211233","Quercia.",643.04,643.54,{"idx":618,"utterance_id":619,"speaker_name":176,"text":620,"start_s":621,"end_s":622,"word_count":471,"indexable":180},75,"211234","Here in São Paulo there are already indications, and I at least come to this conclusion, that one of the reasons why Quercia won the elections here is that Quercia tried to separate President Sarney from the bad things that were happening in the economic plan, trying to shift the blame onto",643.56,660.98,{"idx":624,"utterance_id":625,"speaker_name":176,"text":626,"start_s":627,"end_s":628,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},76,"211235","the bad employer, the large landowning class, the bankers.",661.44,665.46,{"idx":630,"utterance_id":631,"speaker_name":176,"text":632,"start_s":633,"end_s":634,"word_count":389,"indexable":180},77,"211236","Lula, returning to the Cruzado Plan: at the time the plan was issued, the government's economists made use of many numbers to demonstrate that workers would have real wage gains, despite the apparent restraint.",665.96,680.44,{"idx":636,"utterance_id":637,"speaker_name":176,"text":638,"start_s":639,"end_s":640,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},78,"211237","The PT (Workers' Party) positioned itself against it from the start; Barelli took part in the argument that the workers would lose.",681.24,687.52,{"idx":642,"utterance_id":643,"speaker_name":176,"text":644,"start_s":645,"end_s":646,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},79,"211238","I would like you to make an assessment of what actually happened in that period and what you think will happen to the purchasing power of the worker from Cruzado 2 onward.",688.32,698.6,{"idx":648,"utterance_id":649,"speaker_name":176,"text":650,"start_s":651,"end_s":652,"word_count":471,"indexable":180},80,"211239","I remember that in 1978, when I began to get involved in politics, when I began to be politically active in a party, I always say the following: some economist comrades from the PMDB advised Governor Franco Montoro that he should not accept the argument that the average wage had increased.",699.8,720.58,{"idx":654,"utterance_id":655,"speaker_name":176,"text":656,"start_s":657,"end_s":658,"word_count":339,"indexable":180},81,"211240","And Montoro had a phrase that was used in all the rallies, which was as follows: if a citizen has his head in a freezer and his feet in the fire, his average temperature is good, but he is dead.",721.06,733.54,{"idx":660,"utterance_id":661,"speaker_name":176,"text":662,"start_s":663,"end_s":664,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},82,"211241","And now the same economists who advised Montoro to use that argument try to convey the idea that the average wage increased by an exorbitant amount that solved the problem of the working class.",736.38,746.34,{"idx":666,"utterance_id":667,"speaker_name":176,"text":668,"start_s":669,"end_s":670,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},83,"211242","Well, what was the basic argument we used in February?",746.92,750.22,{"idx":672,"utterance_id":673,"speaker_name":176,"text":674,"start_s":675,"end_s":676,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},84,"211243","It was that the government had allowed prices to increase a lot in November, December, January and February.",750.76,756.08,{"idx":678,"utterance_id":679,"speaker_name":176,"text":680,"start_s":681,"end_s":682,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},85,"211244","It froze prices at the peak and wiped out wages at times of lag, wiping out wages on average.",756.58,764.84,{"idx":684,"utterance_id":685,"speaker_name":176,"text":686,"start_s":687,"end_s":688,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},86,"211245","The working class suffered a loss.",765.3,767,{"idx":690,"utterance_id":691,"speaker_name":176,"text":692,"start_s":693,"end_s":694,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},87,"211246","And we observe this loss; I don't know the econo-speak, but in plain, everyday terms, what do we observe?",767.34,774.3,{"idx":696,"utterance_id":697,"speaker_name":176,"text":698,"start_s":699,"end_s":700,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},88,"211247","These days I commissioned a study from a comrade who works at the São Bernardo do Campo union, who is an economist.",774.84,779.88,{"idx":702,"utterance_id":703,"speaker_name":176,"text":704,"start_s":705,"end_s":706,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},89,"211248","And a company like Volkswagen, for example, by having applied the package, saved money.",780.46,785.72,{"idx":708,"utterance_id":709,"speaker_name":176,"text":710,"start_s":711,"end_s":712,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},90,"211249","That is, it failed to put on its employees' paychecks, in six months, an amount equal to 325 million cruzados.",786.22,795,{"idx":714,"utterance_id":715,"speaker_name":176,"text":716,"start_s":717,"end_s":718,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},91,"211250","Equal to 7,774 Volkswagens.",795.92,799.18,{"idx":720,"utterance_id":721,"speaker_name":176,"text":722,"start_s":723,"end_s":724,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},92,"211251","A Ford saved 105 million cruzados, an amount equal to 1,550 Scott.",799.64,806.1,{"idx":726,"utterance_id":727,"speaker_name":176,"text":728,"start_s":729,"end_s":730,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},93,"211252","Now, that money should have been in the worker's pocket.",806.56,809.56,{"idx":304,"utterance_id":732,"speaker_name":176,"text":733,"start_s":734,"end_s":735,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},"211253","It is not.",809.96,810.66,{"idx":737,"utterance_id":738,"speaker_name":176,"text":739,"start_s":740,"end_s":741,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},95,"211254","Someone kept it.",811.12,812.14,{"idx":743,"utterance_id":744,"speaker_name":176,"text":745,"start_s":746,"end_s":747,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},96,"211255","And that someone was the company.",812.46,813.68,{"idx":235,"utterance_id":749,"speaker_name":176,"text":750,"start_s":751,"end_s":752,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},"211256","which did not pass it on.",814.12,814.74,{"idx":754,"utterance_id":755,"speaker_name":176,"text":756,"start_s":757,"end_s":758,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},98,"211257","There was a great contradiction in that, which is the fact that, at first, workers in general expressed themselves in favor of the Cruzado Plan.",814.76,821.84,{"idx":760,"utterance_id":761,"speaker_name":176,"text":762,"start_s":763,"end_s":764,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},99,"211258","That is to say, there was a positive reaction among the population.",823.12,825.68,{"idx":766,"utterance_id":767,"speaker_name":176,"text":768,"start_s":769,"end_s":770,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},100,"211259","The backlash took a while to appear.",826.9,828.74,{"idx":772,"utterance_id":773,"speaker_name":176,"text":774,"start_s":775,"end_s":776,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},101,"211260","I think it was normal to have a policy of acceptance.",828.78,833.56,{"idx":778,"utterance_id":779,"speaker_name":176,"text":780,"start_s":781,"end_s":782,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},102,"211261","First, because we have to admit the product was well sold.",834.72,838,{"idx":784,"utterance_id":785,"speaker_name":176,"text":786,"start_s":787,"end_s":38,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},103,"211262","We have to admit that the thesis of price freezing was a thesis that was... well accepted by the population.",838.58,{"idx":789,"utterance_id":790,"speaker_name":176,"text":791,"start_s":792,"end_s":793,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},104,"211263","We must not forget the grand movement against calistia in the state of São Paulo, at a very tense time.",846.34,852.92,{"idx":795,"utterance_id":796,"speaker_name":176,"text":797,"start_s":798,"end_s":799,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},105,"211264","It is a thesis still defended by PT today.",852.94,854.68,{"idx":801,"utterance_id":802,"speaker_name":176,"text":803,"start_s":804,"end_s":805,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},106,"211265","And it is a thesis defended not only by PT, but by almost all popular movements.",855.46,859.36,{"idx":807,"utterance_id":808,"speaker_name":176,"text":809,"start_s":810,"end_s":811,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},107,"211266","It is the effective price freeze.",859.4,861.42,{"idx":813,"utterance_id":814,"speaker_name":176,"text":815,"start_s":816,"end_s":817,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},108,"211267","Now, there will only be a price freeze, we argued at the time, for an automotive industry or for a blender industry to raise its product; it is not enough just to raise the final price.",861.86,872.02,{"idx":819,"utterance_id":820,"speaker_name":176,"text":821,"start_s":822,"end_s":823,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},109,"211268","It can be by removing components.",872.38,874.04,{"idx":825,"utterance_id":826,"speaker_name":176,"text":827,"start_s":828,"end_s":829,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},110,"211269","And the company continues earning the same amount of money.",874.58,877.18,{"idx":831,"utterance_id":832,"speaker_name":176,"text":833,"start_s":834,"end_s":835,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},111,"211270","So, look, we continued hoping that the freeze would happen.",877.9,881.08,{"idx":837,"utterance_id":838,"speaker_name":176,"text":839,"start_s":840,"end_s":841,"word_count":459,"indexable":180},112,"211271","We continued hoping that the Brazilian people would recover their purchasing power and we thought it would be fair, we said at the time, that if the government wanted to be fair to Brazilian society, first it would restore the purchasing power of the working class and only then apply the freeze.",881.58,896.36,{"idx":843,"utterance_id":844,"speaker_name":176,"text":845,"start_s":846,"end_s":847,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},113,"211272","But, Lula, do you think the freeze in Brazil today is full of holes?",896.46,900.36,{"idx":849,"utterance_id":850,"speaker_name":176,"text":851,"start_s":852,"end_s":853,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},114,"211273","Why?",900.48,900.82,{"idx":855,"utterance_id":856,"speaker_name":176,"text":857,"start_s":858,"end_s":859,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},115,"211274","Because there is no way to enforce that freeze?",901.28,903.56,{"idx":861,"utterance_id":862,"speaker_name":176,"text":863,"start_s":864,"end_s":865,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},116,"211275","Because there is no will to enforce it?",903.6,905.44,{"idx":867,"utterance_id":868,"speaker_name":176,"text":851,"start_s":869,"end_s":870,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},117,"211276",905.54,905.8,{"idx":872,"utterance_id":873,"speaker_name":176,"text":874,"start_s":875,"end_s":876,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},118,"211277","Look, see, no... The freeze is full of holes because first the government creates the laws and does not create the instruments to oversee the law.",906.08,916.34,{"idx":878,"utterance_id":879,"speaker_name":176,"text":880,"start_s":881,"end_s":882,"word_count":377,"indexable":180},119,"211278","One of the things to oversee the freeze was for the trade union movement to have access to the company's accounting, to have access to the company's production system so it would have a minimum of control over that.",916.82,928.38,{"idx":884,"utterance_id":885,"speaker_name":176,"text":886,"start_s":887,"end_s":888,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},120,"211279","The government needed to control the markup.",929.64,931.32,{"idx":890,"utterance_id":891,"speaker_name":176,"text":892,"start_s":893,"end_s":894,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},121,"211280","Not allow the markup to exist.",931.72,933.38,{"idx":896,"utterance_id":897,"speaker_name":176,"text":898,"start_s":899,"end_s":900,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},122,"211281","The government needed to prevent product window-dressing.",933.8,937.3,{"idx":902,"utterance_id":903,"speaker_name":176,"text":904,"start_s":905,"end_s":906,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},123,"211282","And the government needed to prevent manipulation by the producing class of not putting merchandise in supermarkets.",937.7,944.96,{"idx":908,"utterance_id":909,"speaker_name":176,"text":910,"start_s":911,"end_s":912,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},124,"211283","And the government did not do it.",945.18,946.04,{"idx":914,"utterance_id":915,"speaker_name":176,"text":916,"start_s":917,"end_s":918,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},125,"211284","The joke that was made when Quercia sent a telegram to President Sarney to inspect cattle, who saw a report made by TV Globo... that a helicopter visited Volkswagen's farm in Pará.",946.54,961.7,{"idx":920,"utterance_id":921,"speaker_name":176,"text":922,"start_s":923,"end_s":924,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},126,"211285","And they found that there were 90 thousand head of cattle, 80 thousand head of cattle, and from the helicopter the reporter said, but they're all thin.",962.36,969.44,{"idx":926,"utterance_id":927,"speaker_name":176,"text":928,"start_s":929,"end_s":930,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},127,"211286","Look, I'm 41 years old, I've never heard that joke that there was a lack of meat because the cattle were skinny or fat.",970,977.12,{"idx":932,"utterance_id":933,"speaker_name":176,"text":934,"start_s":935,"end_s":936,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},128,"211287","I've never heard that joke.",977.5,978.64,{"idx":938,"utterance_id":939,"speaker_name":176,"text":940,"start_s":941,"end_s":942,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},129,"211288","And I think you've never heard it.",979.36,980.8,{"idx":944,"utterance_id":945,"speaker_name":176,"text":946,"start_s":947,"end_s":948,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},130,"211289","Also, I don't know if Boris heard, if Coito heard, inventing that joke due to a lack of capacity to intervene with the large producers connected [to them] and force them to put goods in the supermarket.",980.84,992.08,{"idx":950,"utterance_id":951,"speaker_name":176,"text":952,"start_s":953,"end_s":954,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},131,"211290","Lula, Lula, Lula.",992.1,994.56,{"idx":956,"utterance_id":957,"speaker_name":176,"text":958,"start_s":959,"end_s":960,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},132,"211291","Please, Florel, let Boris ask his question, then you can resume the discussion.",995.5,999.78,{"idx":962,"utterance_id":963,"speaker_name":176,"text":964,"start_s":965,"end_s":966,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},133,"211292","Please.",999.98,1000.38,{"idx":62,"utterance_id":968,"speaker_name":176,"text":969,"start_s":970,"end_s":971,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},"211293","I think so far you've been a good critic of the Plano Cruzado.",1000.88,1003.6,{"idx":973,"utterance_id":974,"speaker_name":176,"text":975,"start_s":976,"end_s":977,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},135,"211294","I would like to see.",1004.28,1005.06,{"idx":979,"utterance_id":980,"speaker_name":176,"text":981,"start_s":982,"end_s":983,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},136,"211295","Now shed a little the figure of union leader and speak as the president of PT.",1005.7,1009.8,{"idx":985,"utterance_id":986,"speaker_name":176,"text":987,"start_s":988,"end_s":989,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},137,"211296","What alternative does PT offer to the Plano Cruzado?",1010.04,1012.42,{"idx":991,"utterance_id":992,"speaker_name":176,"text":993,"start_s":994,"end_s":995,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},138,"211297","Look, see, not only the alternative that PT offers, the alternative that any serious party should offer to the Plano Cruzado.",1012.52,1021.02,{"idx":51,"utterance_id":997,"speaker_name":176,"text":998,"start_s":999,"end_s":1000,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},"211298","First of all, you cannot take any economic measure, and that was PMDB's fight for 20 years.",1021.6,1029.6,{"idx":1002,"utterance_id":1003,"speaker_name":176,"text":1004,"start_s":1005,"end_s":1006,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},140,"211299","It is PT's fight since our birth, that you cannot take any measure of economic nature without going through a debate in the National Congress, without involving the whole of society.",1030.36,1043.54,{"idx":1008,"utterance_id":1009,"speaker_name":176,"text":1010,"start_s":1011,"end_s":1012,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},141,"211300","But what would PT offer society?",1043.56,1045.38,{"idx":1014,"utterance_id":1015,"speaker_name":176,"text":1016,"start_s":1017,"end_s":1018,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},142,"211301","What alternative?",1045.4,1046.22,{"idx":1020,"utterance_id":1021,"speaker_name":176,"text":1022,"start_s":1023,"end_s":1024,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},143,"211302","What is the solution?",1046.24,1046.86,{"idx":1026,"utterance_id":1027,"speaker_name":176,"text":1028,"start_s":1029,"end_s":1030,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},144,"211303","The alternative is for you to maintain de facto and de jure the freeze.",1047,1050.22,{"idx":1032,"utterance_id":1033,"speaker_name":176,"text":1034,"start_s":1035,"end_s":1036,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},145,"211304","So you think the freeze was a good measure as long as it was well...",1052.14,1055.76,{"idx":1038,"utterance_id":1039,"speaker_name":176,"text":1040,"start_s":1041,"end_s":1042,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},146,"211305","It was a good measure and we defended the freeze from the beginning.",1055.94,1059.14,{"idx":1044,"utterance_id":1045,"speaker_name":176,"text":1046,"start_s":1047,"end_s":1048,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},147,"211306","What we demanded at the time, we said, was that for the freeze to work, it was necessary for the government to allow society to create instruments to oversee it.",1060.14,1069.88,{"idx":1050,"utterance_id":1051,"speaker_name":176,"text":1052,"start_s":1053,"end_s":1054,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},148,"211307","And this freeze, in your opinion, should be permanent, ten years, for example?",1069.98,1073.38,{"idx":39,"utterance_id":1056,"speaker_name":176,"text":1057,"start_s":1058,"end_s":1059,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},"211308","Look, I think it should be until the basic problem of hunger in this country is solved.",1073.48,1077.94,{"idx":1061,"utterance_id":1062,"speaker_name":176,"text":1063,"start_s":1064,"end_s":1065,"word_count":528,"indexable":180},150,"211309","Because when the President of the Republic, on April 30, goes on television and recognizes that in this country there are 80 million Brazilians going hungry, when the World Health Organization recognizes that in this country a thousand children die per day and the disease is called hunger, there needs to be a commitment to end this as a priority.",1078.4,1100.18,{"idx":278,"utterance_id":1067,"speaker_name":176,"text":1068,"start_s":1069,"end_s":1070,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},"211310","So the freeze should remain.",1100.84,1102.92,{"idx":1072,"utterance_id":1073,"speaker_name":176,"text":1074,"start_s":1075,"end_s":1076,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},152,"211311","Until you manage to end hunger in this country and ensure at least three meals reach every part of this country.",1103.62,1110.3,{"idx":1078,"utterance_id":1079,"speaker_name":176,"text":1080,"start_s":1081,"end_s":1082,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},153,"211312","But the market, the market forces do not allow that.",1110.32,1113.3,{"idx":1084,"utterance_id":1085,"speaker_name":176,"text":1086,"start_s":1087,"end_s":1088,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},154,"211313","So are you proposing the end of the market, for example, the socialization of the means of production?",1113.5,1117.82,{"idx":1090,"utterance_id":1091,"speaker_name":176,"text":1092,"start_s":1093,"end_s":1094,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},155,"211314","Look, I think, I think, and you know I defend the socialization of the means of production.",1117.84,1122.04,{"idx":1096,"utterance_id":1097,"speaker_name":176,"text":1098,"start_s":1099,"end_s":1100,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},156,"211315","I don't think we are close to that, no.",1122.06,1124.54,{"idx":1102,"utterance_id":1103,"speaker_name":176,"text":1104,"start_s":1105,"end_s":1106,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},157,"211316","I think we are very far from that and we are discussing something else.",1124.58,1128.32,{"idx":1108,"utterance_id":1109,"speaker_name":176,"text":1110,"start_s":1111,"end_s":1112,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},158,"211317","The only thing I think is that the government should.",1128.8,1131.16,{"idx":1114,"utterance_id":1115,"speaker_name":176,"text":1116,"start_s":1117,"end_s":1118,"word_count":406,"indexable":180},159,"211318","Should allow, and it was a simple demand of ours, allow first that the trade union movement have control to know what the company's productive capacity was, whether they were screwing the plan or not, whether they were screwing the government or not.",1131.78,1145.8,{"idx":1120,"utterance_id":1121,"speaker_name":176,"text":1122,"start_s":1123,"end_s":1124,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},160,"211319","That was not allowed.",1146.26,1147.74,{"idx":1126,"utterance_id":1127,"speaker_name":176,"text":1128,"start_s":1129,"end_s":1130,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},161,"211320","To the extent that it is not allowed for there to be inspection by the interested party... Sunab never had credibility in this country.",1148.14,1156.62,{"idx":1132,"utterance_id":1133,"speaker_name":176,"text":1134,"start_s":1135,"end_s":1136,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},162,"211321","Suddenly they wanted to place Sunab as an oversight body.",1156.94,1159.72,{"idx":1138,"utterance_id":1139,"speaker_name":176,"text":1140,"start_s":1141,"end_s":1142,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},163,"211322","So the only alternative that PT offers to the Perno Cruzado is a very well-supervised freeze.",1159.74,1164.04,{"idx":1144,"utterance_id":1145,"speaker_name":176,"text":1146,"start_s":1147,"end_s":1148,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},164,"211323","It is well supervised.",1164.2,1164.94,{"idx":1150,"utterance_id":1151,"speaker_name":176,"text":1152,"start_s":1153,"end_s":1154,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},165,"211324","Now, I would like to take advantage of this question from Bairro.",1165.06,1169.78,{"idx":1156,"utterance_id":1157,"speaker_name":176,"text":1158,"start_s":1159,"end_s":1160,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},166,"211325","Just so as not to lose the momentum.",1169.8,1171.42,{"idx":1162,"utterance_id":1163,"speaker_name":176,"text":1164,"start_s":1165,"end_s":1166,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},167,"211326","You said there that you defend the socialization of the means of production.",1171.44,1174.42,{"idx":1168,"utterance_id":1169,"speaker_name":176,"text":1170,"start_s":1171,"end_s":1172,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},168,"211327","I have read interviews with various PT leaders over its existence.",1175.18,1179.76,{"idx":1174,"utterance_id":1175,"speaker_name":176,"text":1176,"start_s":1177,"end_s":1178,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},169,"211328","in which, one way or another, it is said that PT's horizon is a socialist horizon.",1180.48,1185.32,{"idx":1180,"utterance_id":1181,"speaker_name":176,"text":1182,"start_s":1183,"end_s":1184,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},170,"211329","You are a man who knows a good part of the world, knows several socialist countries.",1186.46,1191.88,{"idx":1186,"utterance_id":1187,"speaker_name":176,"text":1188,"start_s":1189,"end_s":1190,"word_count":171,"indexable":180},171,"211330","I would like to know the following: of all the countries you visited, either socialist countries or countries on the way to socialism, which of them comes closest to the model you would defend for Brazil?",1192.88,1206.18,{"idx":1192,"utterance_id":1193,"speaker_name":176,"text":1194,"start_s":1195,"end_s":1196,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},172,"211331","I know you might say the following, no, Brazil will make the socialism that the Brazilian people want.",1206.38,1211.42,{"idx":1198,"utterance_id":1199,"speaker_name":176,"text":1200,"start_s":1201,"end_s":1202,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},173,"211332","Now, I want to know the following: you, personally, I'm not asking you to copy.",1211.68,1216.28,{"idx":1204,"utterance_id":1205,"speaker_name":176,"text":1206,"start_s":1207,"end_s":1208,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},174,"211333","Which of the countries, is it East Germany, is it Poland, is it Cuba, is it Nicaragua, which of them comes closest to an ideal?",1217.08,1223.24,{"idx":1210,"utterance_id":1211,"speaker_name":176,"text":1212,"start_s":1213,"end_s":1214,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},175,"211334","that you expect of socialism here in Brazil?",1223.8,1226.02,{"idx":1216,"utterance_id":1217,"speaker_name":176,"text":1218,"start_s":1219,"end_s":1220,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},176,"211335","Look, actually you gave the answer I was going to give when you said that...",1226.22,1230.04,{"idx":1222,"utterance_id":1223,"speaker_name":176,"text":1224,"start_s":1225,"end_s":1226,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},177,"211336","It doesn't apply to you.",1230.14,1230.74,{"idx":45,"utterance_id":1228,"speaker_name":176,"text":1229,"start_s":1230,"end_s":1231,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},"211337","But look, let me tell you something, Fernando.",1231.1,1233.32,{"idx":1233,"utterance_id":1234,"speaker_name":176,"text":1235,"start_s":1236,"end_s":1237,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},179,"211338","Look, I don't know many socialist countries.",1233.34,1235.44,{"idx":1239,"utterance_id":1240,"speaker_name":176,"text":1241,"start_s":1242,"end_s":1243,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},180,"211339","I only know Cuba, having stayed there 15 days, and I know East Germany from staying only 6 days in East Germany.",1235.46,1242.04,{"idx":1245,"utterance_id":1246,"speaker_name":176,"text":1247,"start_s":1248,"end_s":1249,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},181,"211340","Wouldn't that be good for you to defend socialism?",1242.3,1243.52,{"idx":1251,"utterance_id":1252,"speaker_name":176,"text":1253,"start_s":1254,"end_s":1255,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},182,"211341","And for me, for me East Germany, for me East Germany is a country that had an extraordinary development within the socialist field.",1243.54,1252.76,{"idx":1257,"utterance_id":1258,"speaker_name":176,"text":1259,"start_s":1260,"end_s":1261,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},183,"211342","I think that socialism, today, in my mind, is something much more practical than theoretical.",1253.46,1261.5,{"idx":1263,"utterance_id":1264,"speaker_name":176,"text":1265,"start_s":1266,"end_s":1267,"word_count":171,"indexable":180},184,"211343","It is something much more built on experience, on the culture of the people, on the productive capacity of that people, on the education of a people, than actually trying to put a project on paper and start to implement it.",1262.42,1276.24,{"idx":1269,"utterance_id":1270,"speaker_name":176,"text":1271,"start_s":1272,"end_s":1273,"word_count":406,"indexable":180},185,"211344","If we notice that East Germany even today still... suffers the damages of World War II and did not receive the aid that the other Germany received, we realize that they are on the right track.",1277.72,1292.92,{"idx":1275,"utterance_id":1276,"speaker_name":176,"text":1277,"start_s":1278,"end_s":1279,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},186,"211345","They are on the path of trying to solve problems according to the people's interests.",1293.4,1297.74,{"idx":1281,"utterance_id":1282,"speaker_name":176,"text":1283,"start_s":1284,"end_s":1285,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},187,"211346","Even without elections?",1297.84,1298.72,{"idx":1287,"utterance_id":1288,"speaker_name":176,"text":1289,"start_s":1290,"end_s":1291,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},188,"211347","So, look, elections are not everything.",1298.78,1301.02,{"idx":1293,"utterance_id":1294,"speaker_name":176,"text":1295,"start_s":1296,"end_s":1297,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},189,"211348","They must end.",1301.58,1302.56,{"idx":11,"utterance_id":1299,"speaker_name":176,"text":1300,"start_s":1301,"end_s":1302,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},"211349","Look, I said in Cuba, at the seminar...",1303.42,1305.78,{"idx":1304,"utterance_id":1305,"speaker_name":176,"text":1306,"start_s":1307,"end_s":1308,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},191,"211350","Look, Lula, I am perplexed to hear that phrase of yours, 'elections are not everything.'",1305.8,1308.58,{"idx":1310,"utterance_id":1311,"speaker_name":176,"text":1312,"start_s":1313,"end_s":1314,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},192,"211351","I said that elections are not everything, elections are just a comma within a democratic system.",1308.62,1313.86,{"idx":1316,"utterance_id":1317,"speaker_name":176,"text":1318,"start_s":1319,"end_s":1320,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},193,"211352","But they are fundamental, Lula.",1313.88,1314.72,{"idx":1322,"utterance_id":1323,"speaker_name":176,"text":1324,"start_s":1325,"end_s":1326,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},194,"211353","Yes, but they are not the only thing, as is attempted to be said here in Brazil.",1314.86,1319.68,{"idx":1328,"utterance_id":1329,"speaker_name":176,"text":1330,"start_s":1331,"end_s":1332,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},195,"211354","But they are the first thing.",1319.76,1320.82,{"idx":1334,"utterance_id":1335,"speaker_name":176,"text":1336,"start_s":1337,"end_s":1338,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},196,"211355","Because to say that these elections that took place now on November 15 were democratic is at minimum to want to falsify this thing called democracy.",1321,1329.74,{"idx":56,"utterance_id":1340,"speaker_name":176,"text":1341,"start_s":1342,"end_s":1343,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},"211356","How can there be democracy if you give 115 minutes to one social segment and give two minutes to another?",1330.22,1337.12,{"idx":1345,"utterance_id":1346,"speaker_name":176,"text":1347,"start_s":1348,"end_s":1349,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},198,"211357","If you prevent others from having access.",1337.44,1339,{"idx":1351,"utterance_id":1352,"speaker_name":176,"text":1353,"start_s":1354,"end_s":1355,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},199,"211358","And therefore you intend to do away with television?",1339.02,1340.82,{"idx":1357,"utterance_id":1358,"speaker_name":176,"text":1359,"start_s":1360,"end_s":1361,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},200,"211359","No, I intend to democratize it, Boris.",1340.92,1342.78,{"idx":1363,"utterance_id":1364,"speaker_name":176,"text":1365,"start_s":1366,"end_s":1367,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},201,"211360","Are you advocating a regime where there are no elections?",1342.8,1345.1,{"idx":1369,"utterance_id":1370,"speaker_name":176,"text":1371,"start_s":1372,"end_s":1373,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},202,"211361","I intend to democratize.",1345.38,1346.84,{"idx":1375,"utterance_id":1376,"speaker_name":176,"text":1377,"start_s":1378,"end_s":1379,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},203,"211362","I intend for the newspaper you work at to give the same space to Lula as it gives to Ulisses Guimarães.",1347.16,1351.24,{"idx":1381,"utterance_id":1382,"speaker_name":176,"text":1383,"start_s":1384,"end_s":1385,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},204,"211363","That gave the same space to Lula, that gives the same space to Franco Montoro, that gave the same space to Fernando de Moraes.",1351.86,1356.44,{"idx":1387,"utterance_id":1388,"speaker_name":176,"text":1389,"start_s":1390,"end_s":1391,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},205,"211364","What will happen to the newspapers under your socialism?",1356.46,1358.5,{"idx":1393,"utterance_id":1394,"speaker_name":176,"text":1395,"start_s":1396,"end_s":1397,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},206,"211365","What will happen to the newspapers?",1358.52,1359.46,{"idx":1399,"utterance_id":1400,"speaker_name":176,"text":1401,"start_s":1402,"end_s":1403,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},207,"211366","Will they remain with the companies or with the government?",1359.52,1360.72,{"idx":1405,"utterance_id":1406,"speaker_name":176,"text":1407,"start_s":1408,"end_s":1409,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},208,"211367","When socialism arrives we'll tell you how it will be.",1360.74,1362.82,{"idx":1411,"utterance_id":1412,"speaker_name":176,"text":1413,"start_s":1414,"end_s":1415,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},209,"211368","But I'm very curious.",1362.84,1363.64,{"idx":1417,"utterance_id":1418,"speaker_name":176,"text":1419,"start_s":1420,"end_s":1421,"word_count":557,"indexable":180},210,"211369","What I'm concerned with at this moment is saying the following: I think that the socialist society that matters for Brazil — and that's why I joked that Fernando had already answered — can only be achieved insofar as we respect the values of the Brazilian people, the culture of the Brazilian people, and the level and educational formation of our people.",1363.7,1385.92,{"idx":1423,"utterance_id":1424,"speaker_name":176,"text":1425,"start_s":1426,"end_s":1427,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},211,"211370","And it is built over time.",1386.3,1387.78,{"idx":1429,"utterance_id":1430,"speaker_name":176,"text":1431,"start_s":1432,"end_s":1433,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},212,"211371","Why do I imagine that the horizon for society and for humanity is socialism?",1388.14,1393.98,{"idx":1435,"utterance_id":1436,"speaker_name":176,"text":1437,"start_s":1438,"end_s":1439,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},213,"211372","It's because it's humanly impossible.",1394.44,1396.24,{"idx":1441,"utterance_id":1442,"speaker_name":176,"text":1443,"start_s":1444,"end_s":1445,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},214,"211373","for economic groups to keep shrinking and for fewer and fewer people to be in command of the world.",1396.84,1401.82,{"idx":1447,"utterance_id":1448,"speaker_name":176,"text":1449,"start_s":1450,"end_s":1451,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},215,"211374","It's humanly impossible.",1402.34,1403.52,{"idx":1453,"utterance_id":1454,"speaker_name":176,"text":1455,"start_s":1456,"end_s":1457,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},216,"211375","This will deteriorate.",1403.94,1404.92,{"idx":1459,"utterance_id":1460,"speaker_name":176,"text":1461,"start_s":1462,"end_s":1463,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},217,"211376","A continent like Latin America could explode at any moment, because it's humanly impossible to have the number of people going hungry that exist in Latin America.",1405.42,1414.42,{"idx":1465,"utterance_id":1466,"speaker_name":176,"text":1467,"start_s":1468,"end_s":1469,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},218,"211377","It's humanly impossible, and you know it, that Brazil keeps sending abroad 5% of its gross domestic product.",1414.86,1422.66,{"idx":1471,"utterance_id":1472,"speaker_name":176,"text":1473,"start_s":1474,"end_s":1475,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},219,"211378","But socialism solves all of that.",1422.84,1425.06,{"idx":1477,"utterance_id":1478,"speaker_name":176,"text":1479,"start_s":1480,"end_s":1481,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},220,"211379","Your analysis is perfect, Lula.",1425.64,1427.12,{"idx":1483,"utterance_id":1484,"speaker_name":176,"text":1485,"start_s":1486,"end_s":1487,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},221,"211380","Latin America has all those problems, but your solution is a romantic one.",1427.38,1431.68,{"idx":1489,"utterance_id":1490,"speaker_name":176,"text":1491,"start_s":1492,"end_s":1493,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},222,"211381","You talk about socialism without defining what it is — a magical word that suddenly lands on Brazilian minds and solves all problems.",1431.94,1438.9,{"idx":1495,"utterance_id":1496,"speaker_name":176,"text":1497,"start_s":1498,"end_s":1499,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},223,"211382","Socialism is not a magic word.",1438.92,1439.68,{"idx":1501,"utterance_id":1502,"speaker_name":176,"text":1503,"start_s":1504,"end_s":1505,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},224,"211383","That is your proposal.",1439.7,1440.14,{"idx":1507,"utterance_id":1508,"speaker_name":176,"text":1497,"start_s":1509,"end_s":1510,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},225,"211384",1440.16,1440.98,{"idx":1512,"utterance_id":1513,"speaker_name":176,"text":1514,"start_s":1515,"end_s":1516,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},226,"211385","The way you're putting it, I want to know what happens to property.",1441,1444.2,{"idx":1518,"utterance_id":1519,"speaker_name":176,"text":1520,"start_s":1521,"end_s":1522,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},227,"211386","For example, what happens to the factories under your ownership scheme?",1444.26,1446.34,{"idx":1524,"utterance_id":1525,"speaker_name":176,"text":1526,"start_s":1527,"end_s":1528,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},228,"211387","Look, I am in favor of the working class having control of the means of production.",1446.36,1450.22,{"idx":17,"utterance_id":1530,"speaker_name":176,"text":1531,"start_s":1532,"end_s":1533,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},"211388","All.",1450.82,1451.12,{"idx":1535,"utterance_id":1536,"speaker_name":176,"text":1531,"start_s":1537,"end_s":1538,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},230,"211389",1451.96,1452.32,{"idx":1540,"utterance_id":1541,"speaker_name":176,"text":1542,"start_s":1543,"end_s":1544,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},231,"211390","Yes, but Germany is now opening up to initiative.",1452.78,1455.44,{"idx":1546,"utterance_id":1547,"speaker_name":176,"text":1548,"start_s":1549,"end_s":1550,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},232,"211391","That's true, but see that fifty years of theory can begin to change.",1456.06,1462,{"idx":1552,"utterance_id":1553,"speaker_name":176,"text":1554,"start_s":1555,"end_s":1556,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},233,"211392","In China the experience is changing.",1463.06,1464.76,{"idx":1558,"utterance_id":1559,"speaker_name":176,"text":1560,"start_s":1561,"end_s":1562,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},234,"211393","In Nicaragua the means of production were not brought under control.",1465.62,1468.24,{"idx":1564,"utterance_id":1565,"speaker_name":176,"text":1566,"start_s":1567,"end_s":1568,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},235,"211394","Now, first, I think — Fernando, first I think — we have to have the conditions to get to socialism, so that we can discuss, look, what form we are going to implement it.",1469.54,1478.12,{"idx":1570,"utterance_id":1571,"speaker_name":176,"text":1572,"start_s":1573,"end_s":1574,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},236,"211395","Hey Lula, just a second, Lula, Lula, everyone's asking.",1478.14,1481.66,{"idx":1576,"utterance_id":1577,"speaker_name":176,"text":1578,"start_s":1579,"end_s":1580,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},237,"211396","The first person to ask to speak while you were answering was Sandra Guerra.",1482.3,1485.56,{"idx":1582,"utterance_id":1583,"speaker_name":176,"text":1584,"start_s":1585,"end_s":1586,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},238,"211397","I would like you to answer her question.",1485.58,1486.96,{"idx":1588,"utterance_id":1589,"speaker_name":176,"text":1590,"start_s":1591,"end_s":1592,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},239,"211398","Well, I wanted to step a little away from the theory of socialism; while the socialization of the means of production doesn't happen, I want to return to the practical case of the Cruzado Plan.",1487.46,1495.52,{"idx":1594,"utterance_id":1595,"speaker_name":176,"text":1596,"start_s":1597,"end_s":1598,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},240,"211399","I saw today an interview with one of the fathers of the Cruzado Plan, Professor Beluso, who said that the Brazilian labor movement has criticized wage reductions a lot, but has not presented concrete proposals.",1495.82,1509.06,{"idx":1600,"utterance_id":1601,"speaker_name":176,"text":1602,"start_s":1603,"end_s":1604,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},241,"211400","And I return to the freeze.",1509.38,1510.66,{"idx":1606,"utterance_id":1607,"speaker_name":176,"text":1608,"start_s":1609,"end_s":1610,"word_count":465,"indexable":180},242,"211401","If you were — if the PT were in government today, if it became government now, encountering this situation — aside from the freeze, it's a concrete problem: the government needs to curb demand, there's no product, no raw material — how would the PT, as government today, jumping on a moving train, solve this problem?",1511.06,1528.22,{"idx":1612,"utterance_id":1613,"speaker_name":176,"text":1614,"start_s":1615,"end_s":1616,"word_count":430,"indexable":180},243,"211402","I'll tell you what I once told Minister Francisco Dornelis, when, during a visit to him, João Sayad asked me the question: if you were in government today, what would be the solution?",1528.44,1540.44,{"idx":23,"utterance_id":1618,"speaker_name":176,"text":1619,"start_s":1620,"end_s":1621,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},"211403","I said, first give me access to everything that exists in here, so I can present a solution.",1540.94,1546.14,{"idx":1623,"utterance_id":1624,"speaker_name":176,"text":1625,"start_s":1626,"end_s":1627,"word_count":447,"indexable":180},245,"211404","Look, when we of the PT dared to assert — and not only us, other segments of society also assert — that Brazil will not find a way out for its economic policy while it has to remit abroad, you know, 5% of its gross domestic product.",1547.56,1564.58,{"idx":1629,"utterance_id":1630,"speaker_name":176,"text":1631,"start_s":1632,"end_s":1633,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},246,"211405","It's because we have to discuss the external debt almost as a priority issue in this country.",1564.62,1569.94,{"idx":1635,"utterance_id":1636,"speaker_name":176,"text":1637,"start_s":1638,"end_s":1639,"word_count":237,"indexable":180},247,"211406","When we say it's necessary to solve the demand problem, and demand will only be resolved when you have sufficient production to meet needs, and demand presupposes that you have an agrarian reform policy, which if you don't have now, you need to start doing for tomorrow.",1569.96,1588,{"idx":1641,"utterance_id":1642,"speaker_name":176,"text":1643,"start_s":1644,"end_s":1645,"word_count":377,"indexable":180},248,"211407","What you can't do is use the argument of what's not available now to tax the citizen who isn't buying luxury goods but is buying food.",1588.54,1596.9,{"idx":1647,"utterance_id":1648,"speaker_name":176,"text":1649,"start_s":1650,"end_s":1651,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},249,"211408","But, Lula, tell me one thing.",1597.18,1598.32,{"idx":1653,"utterance_id":1654,"speaker_name":176,"text":1655,"start_s":1656,"end_s":1657,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},250,"211409","How do you believe Brazil will meet its obligations?",1598.34,1601.42,{"idx":1659,"utterance_id":1660,"speaker_name":176,"text":1661,"start_s":1662,"end_s":1663,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},251,"211410","It has its external debt; it has to pay it.",1601.94,1603.9,{"idx":1665,"utterance_id":1666,"speaker_name":176,"text":1667,"start_s":1668,"end_s":1669,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},252,"211411","How would you solve that?",1604.1,1605.56,{"idx":1671,"utterance_id":1672,"speaker_name":176,"text":1673,"start_s":1674,"end_s":1675,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},253,"211412","You have to continue your normal life.",1606.04,1608.56,{"idx":1677,"utterance_id":1678,"speaker_name":176,"text":1679,"start_s":1680,"end_s":1681,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},254,"211413","The country goes on.",1609.26,1610.26,{"idx":1683,"utterance_id":1684,"speaker_name":176,"text":1685,"start_s":1686,"end_s":1687,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},255,"211414","How would you solve the issue of our external debt?",1610.52,1612.7,{"idx":1689,"utterance_id":1690,"speaker_name":176,"text":1691,"start_s":1692,"end_s":1693,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},256,"211415","We have a very concrete proposal.",1612.72,1615.24,{"idx":1695,"utterance_id":1696,"speaker_name":176,"text":1697,"start_s":1698,"end_s":1699,"word_count":194,"indexable":180},257,"211416","First, it is necessary that there be an audit of this Brazilian external debt to find out who owes it — whether it's the State, a private company, or a state-owned company — where that money was applied and what fraudulent schemes were involved with that money.",1615.56,1634.8,{"idx":1701,"utterance_id":1702,"speaker_name":176,"text":1703,"start_s":1704,"end_s":1705,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},258,"211417","I don't remember, but a month ago — I don't know if it was the newspaper Estado de São Paulo — there was a report of a debt that in part no longer existed.",1635.16,1642.1,{"idx":1707,"utterance_id":1708,"speaker_name":176,"text":1709,"start_s":1710,"end_s":1711,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},259,"211418","There must be many like that.",1642.72,1643.9,{"idx":1713,"utterance_id":1714,"speaker_name":176,"text":1715,"start_s":1716,"end_s":1717,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},260,"211419","What do we want?",1643.92,1644.86,{"idx":1719,"utterance_id":1720,"speaker_name":176,"text":1721,"start_s":1722,"end_s":1723,"word_count":471,"indexable":180},261,"211420","If the debt is not of interest to Funaro, if the debt was not of interest to Delphi Neto, if the debt is not of interest to President José Tarney and the responsibility is not theirs, why not open this international accounting for the National Congress to investigate?",1645.34,1660.5,{"idx":1725,"utterance_id":1726,"speaker_name":176,"text":1727,"start_s":1728,"end_s":1729,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},262,"211421","And then decide what to do with this external debt.",1661.48,1664.44,{"idx":1731,"utterance_id":1732,"speaker_name":176,"text":1733,"start_s":1734,"end_s":1735,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},263,"211422","I think, I think, and it's a shame that... Tancredo Neves died, is not here to be held accountable.",1664.88,1671.22,{"idx":1737,"utterance_id":1738,"speaker_name":176,"text":1739,"start_s":1740,"end_s":1741,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},264,"211423","But I remember a famous speech by Tancredo Neves, when he said, look, the Brazilian people will not go hungry because of the external debt.",1671.72,1681.06,{"idx":1743,"utterance_id":1744,"speaker_name":176,"text":1745,"start_s":1746,"end_s":1747,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},265,"211424","Everyone remembers that.",1682.4,1683.56,{"idx":1749,"utterance_id":1750,"speaker_name":176,"text":1751,"start_s":1752,"end_s":1753,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},266,"211425","Well, the only way to prevent the Brazilian people from going hungry because of the external debt is to, in some way, suspend payment of that external debt.",1684.08,1694.22,{"idx":1755,"utterance_id":1756,"speaker_name":176,"text":1757,"start_s":1758,"end_s":1759,"word_count":339,"indexable":180},267,"211426","It is to tell the creditors the following, to tell the creditors the following, look, Brazil cannot continue sending 12 billion dollars, which is 30 times the budget planned for health in a year like 1986.",1696.16,1707.04,{"idx":1761,"utterance_id":1762,"speaker_name":176,"text":1763,"start_s":1764,"end_s":1765,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},268,"211427","Well, if I were in Cuba, I might possibly be saying that, but I'm in Brazil, and I know Brazil well.",1709.1,1714.54,{"idx":1767,"utterance_id":1768,"speaker_name":176,"text":1769,"start_s":1770,"end_s":1771,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},269,"211428","I know Brazil extraordinarily well.",1715.32,1717.2,{"idx":1773,"utterance_id":1774,"speaker_name":176,"text":1775,"start_s":1776,"end_s":1777,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},270,"211429","So I am saying what Brazil should do, as a Brazilian.",1717.66,1722.68,{"idx":1779,"utterance_id":1780,"speaker_name":176,"text":1781,"start_s":1782,"end_s":1783,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},271,"211430","It is that we should go to the international creditors and say, look, we are going to suspend payment of the external debt, we'll solve Brazil's problem and then we'll talk again.",1723.46,1733.84,{"idx":1785,"utterance_id":1786,"speaker_name":176,"text":1787,"start_s":1788,"end_s":1789,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},272,"211431","In the same answer you mixed, pardon me, Delfim and Funaro, and our civilian government has very frequently used decree-laws.",1734.58,1743.26,{"idx":1791,"utterance_id":1792,"speaker_name":176,"text":1793,"start_s":1794,"end_s":1795,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},273,"211432","I would like you to outline for me a comparative profile between Delfim Neto and Minister Funaro, in their specificity.",1744.24,1752.6,{"idx":1797,"utterance_id":1798,"speaker_name":176,"text":1799,"start_s":1800,"end_s":1801,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},274,"211433","Look, see, I couldn't treat the two with that kind of familiarity.",1753.14,1757.76,{"idx":1803,"utterance_id":1804,"speaker_name":176,"text":1805,"start_s":1806,"end_s":1807,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},275,"211434","I can address, in a certain way, even superficially, both of them.",1757.82,1762.9,{"idx":1809,"utterance_id":1810,"speaker_name":176,"text":1811,"start_s":1812,"end_s":1813,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},276,"211435","I think that Dius Funaro is still a man who has credibility.",1763.6,1767.12,{"idx":1815,"utterance_id":1816,"speaker_name":176,"text":1817,"start_s":1818,"end_s":1819,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},277,"211436","He has credibility with public opinion, which Delfi Neto no longer has.",1767.8,1769.98,{"idx":1821,"utterance_id":1822,"speaker_name":176,"text":1823,"start_s":1824,"end_s":1825,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},278,"211437","However, I do not know the Dilso Funaro of the New Republic.",1770.5,1773.36,{"idx":1827,"utterance_id":1828,"speaker_name":176,"text":1829,"start_s":1830,"end_s":1831,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},279,"211438","I know the Dilso Funaro as vice-president of Fiesp, vice-president of Teobaldo de Nigues.",1773.4,1777.88,{"idx":1833,"utterance_id":1834,"speaker_name":176,"text":1835,"start_s":1836,"end_s":1837,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},280,"211439","I know Dilso Funaro by negotiations, by denials as grotesque for the working class as those we hear today.",1778.46,1787.16,{"idx":1839,"utterance_id":1840,"speaker_name":176,"text":1841,"start_s":1842,"end_s":1843,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},281,"211440","By the way, it's important to remember that the procedure is the same.",1787.56,1790.58,{"idx":1845,"utterance_id":1846,"speaker_name":176,"text":1847,"start_s":1848,"end_s":1849,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},282,"211441","The form is different, but the content is very similar.",1791.16,1794.28,{"idx":1851,"utterance_id":1852,"speaker_name":176,"text":1853,"start_s":1854,"end_s":1855,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},283,"211442","Recently, Funaro's factory went on strike — the Troll.",1794.68,1797.38,{"idx":1857,"utterance_id":1858,"speaker_name":176,"text":1859,"start_s":1860,"end_s":1861,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},284,"211443","Ask him what treatment they gave to the employee.",1799.24,1801.46,{"idx":1863,"utterance_id":1864,"speaker_name":176,"text":1865,"start_s":1866,"end_s":1867,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},285,"211444","Ask whether they negotiated.",1802.12,1803.2,{"idx":1869,"utterance_id":1870,"speaker_name":176,"text":1871,"start_s":1872,"end_s":1873,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},286,"211445","Including girls earning R$ 6,20 per hour.",1803.64,1807.46,{"idx":1875,"utterance_id":1876,"speaker_name":176,"text":1877,"start_s":1878,"end_s":1879,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},287,"211446","Lula, I've heard the peremptory claim from the people's side that the freeze was also broken by the increases obtained during the strikes that began in July and August.",1808.1,1819.6,{"idx":1881,"utterance_id":1882,"speaker_name":176,"text":1883,"start_s":1884,"end_s":1885,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},288,"211447","I think it's normal that there are people who think that way.",1821.56,1823.82,{"idx":1887,"utterance_id":1888,"speaker_name":176,"text":1889,"start_s":1890,"end_s":1891,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},289,"211448","It's very normal that among the people there are millions who think that way, because the level of information the people receive is very low.",1825.52,1833.44,{"idx":1893,"utterance_id":1894,"speaker_name":176,"text":1895,"start_s":1896,"end_s":1897,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},290,"211449","What information does the Brazilian people have?",1833.82,1835.52,{"idx":1899,"utterance_id":1900,"speaker_name":176,"text":1901,"start_s":1902,"end_s":1903,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},291,"211450","What information does the citizen who cannot buy a newspaper to read have?",1836.32,1838.96,{"idx":29,"utterance_id":1905,"speaker_name":176,"text":1906,"start_s":1907,"end_s":1908,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},"211451","What information does the citizen who gets up at four in the morning, gets home at six and starts watching the five o'clock soap opera until ten at night have?",1839.44,1845.22,{"idx":1910,"utterance_id":1911,"speaker_name":176,"text":1912,"start_s":1913,"end_s":1914,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},293,"211452","None.",1845.72,1846.22,{"idx":1916,"utterance_id":1917,"speaker_name":176,"text":1918,"start_s":1919,"end_s":1920,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},294,"211453","He only hears the information that the dominant class wants him to hear.",1846.7,1849.88,{"idx":1922,"utterance_id":1923,"speaker_name":176,"text":1924,"start_s":1925,"end_s":1926,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},295,"211454","When a citizen of the people thinks like that, I think it's fair.",1850.52,1853.5,{"idx":1928,"utterance_id":1929,"speaker_name":176,"text":1930,"start_s":1931,"end_s":1932,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},296,"211455","What I think is idiotic is when someone who has information and knows they are not telling the truth comes to the people and says that it was a strike that achieved a 2% increase and that broke the freeze.",1858.66,1868.44,{"idx":1934,"utterance_id":1935,"speaker_name":176,"text":1936,"start_s":1937,"end_s":1938,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},297,"211456","And I'll tell you something, TV Cultura is giving an extraordinary opportunity.",1869.02,1872.98,{"idx":1940,"utterance_id":1941,"speaker_name":176,"text":1942,"start_s":1943,"end_s":1944,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},298,"211457","But everyone here knows that from 10 p.m.... 70% of the working class is already asleep because they have to get up at 4 a.m. to work.",1873.62,1882.2,{"idx":1946,"utterance_id":1947,"speaker_name":176,"text":1948,"start_s":1949,"end_s":1950,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},299,"211458","Do you think companies have the leeway to give, say, these real increases out of the productivity gains they have?",1882.22,1888.42,{"idx":1952,"utterance_id":1953,"speaker_name":176,"text":1954,"start_s":1955,"end_s":1956,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},300,"211459","Look, I don't even know.",1888.82,1889.74,{"idx":1958,"utterance_id":1959,"speaker_name":176,"text":1960,"start_s":1961,"end_s":1962,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},301,"211460","Do you know one thing I've been demanding from companies since '78?",1889.82,1892.8,{"idx":1964,"utterance_id":1965,"speaker_name":176,"text":1966,"start_s":1967,"end_s":1968,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},302,"211461","When I go to negotiate with a Volkswagen, with a Mercedes, and they say, look, we're losing money, we're in the red, I say, then allow our Diese to have access to the company's accounting.",1893.48,1903.02,{"idx":34,"utterance_id":1970,"speaker_name":176,"text":1971,"start_s":1972,"end_s":1973,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},"211462","Because if they're losing money, we'll publicly say that they're losing money.",1903.64,1907.22,{"idx":1975,"utterance_id":1976,"speaker_name":176,"text":1977,"start_s":1978,"end_s":1979,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},304,"211463","Lula, Lula, Lula, as I said, just one second, we'll come back to this.",1907.98,1915.58,{"idx":1981,"utterance_id":1982,"speaker_name":176,"text":1983,"start_s":1984,"end_s":1985,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},305,"211464","As I said at the start of the program, viewers are calling in and there's already a whole bunch of questions here.",1916.04,1920.3,{"idx":1987,"utterance_id":1988,"speaker_name":176,"text":1989,"start_s":1990,"end_s":1991,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},306,"211465","Everyone wants to take part — Boris, Floreal, Nascimento, everyone wants to — but the viewer wants to as well.",1920.84,1925.1,{"idx":1993,"utterance_id":1994,"speaker_name":176,"text":1995,"start_s":1996,"end_s":1997,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},307,"211466","So I'm going to ask a question to the viewer now.",1925.4,1927.08,{"idx":1999,"utterance_id":2000,"speaker_name":176,"text":2001,"start_s":2002,"end_s":2003,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},308,"211467","Júlio identified himself as Júlio, didn't give his surname, from Belenzinho.",1927.64,1930.7,{"idx":2005,"utterance_id":2006,"speaker_name":176,"text":2007,"start_s":2008,"end_s":2009,"word_count":447,"indexable":180},309,"211468","He wants to know from you whether democracy really works in Brazil, considering the election of a deputy — he names him, I won't repeat it, but it was a deputy who ended up provoking a skirmish at Anhembi, they wanted to beat him up, he wanted to beat someone, I don't know what.",1930.96,1944.24,{"idx":2011,"utterance_id":2012,"speaker_name":176,"text":2013,"start_s":2014,"end_s":2015,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},310,"211469","Look, see, I think democracy in Brazil is very nascent and it's very masked, it's very made-up, it's more or less the same as the Cruzado Plan.",1946.12,1956.64,{"idx":2017,"utterance_id":2018,"speaker_name":176,"text":2019,"start_s":2020,"end_s":2021,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},311,"211470","Because when you assume democracy — and I would like comrade Júlio to pay attention — when you talk about democracy, you need to grant the right to equality and participation.",1957.44,1968.36,{"idx":2023,"utterance_id":2024,"speaker_name":176,"text":2025,"start_s":2026,"end_s":2027,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},312,"211471","You need to allow people to compete on equal terms.",1969,1972.92,{"idx":2029,"utterance_id":2030,"speaker_name":176,"text":2031,"start_s":2032,"end_s":2033,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},313,"211472","And I said a little while ago that these elections were not democratic.",1973.54,1978.06,{"idx":2035,"utterance_id":2036,"speaker_name":176,"text":2037,"start_s":2038,"end_s":2039,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},314,"211473","At no point were they democratic.",1978.28,1980.04,{"idx":2041,"utterance_id":2042,"speaker_name":176,"text":2043,"start_s":2044,"end_s":2045,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},315,"211474","Look, first because the television debate goes on the air at midnight.",1980.62,1983.92,{"idx":2047,"utterance_id":2048,"speaker_name":176,"text":2049,"start_s":2050,"end_s":2051,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},316,"211475","Who is watching at midnight?",1984.38,1985.96,{"idx":2053,"utterance_id":2054,"speaker_name":176,"text":2055,"start_s":2056,"end_s":2057,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},317,"211476","Second, because the parties had unequal airtime on television.",1986.78,1989.76,{"idx":2059,"utterance_id":2060,"speaker_name":176,"text":2061,"start_s":2062,"end_s":2063,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},318,"211477","Third, because the parties spent unequal sums of money.",1990.5,1994.44,{"idx":2065,"utterance_id":2066,"speaker_name":176,"text":2067,"start_s":2068,"end_s":2069,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},319,"211478","There was a candidate for deputy who had 200 autodó and another who didn't even have the means to produce a bulletin.",1994.94,1999.96,{"idx":2071,"utterance_id":2072,"speaker_name":176,"text":2073,"start_s":2074,"end_s":2075,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},320,"211479","So, what the hell kind of democracy is this?",2000.8,2002.8,{"idx":2077,"utterance_id":2078,"speaker_name":176,"text":2079,"start_s":2080,"end_s":2081,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},321,"211480","I've always said the following: we must be very careful with the rhetoric of formal democracy.",2003.18,2008.3,{"idx":2083,"utterance_id":2084,"speaker_name":176,"text":2085,"start_s":2086,"end_s":2087,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},322,"211481","and it was the reason I took a lot of flak from some analysts or sociologists who write for Folha de São Paulo.",2008.9,2015.44,{"idx":2089,"utterance_id":2090,"speaker_name":176,"text":2091,"start_s":2092,"end_s":2093,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},323,"211482","This formal democracy that allows one citizen to earn 300 cruzadas a month and another to earn 804 a month is very dangerous.",2015.46,2024.28,{"idx":2095,"utterance_id":2096,"speaker_name":176,"text":2097,"start_s":2098,"end_s":2099,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},324,"211483","Because although we are all subject to the same Constitution, subject to the same law... The citizen who earns 304 cruzados, 300 thousand cruzados a month...",2024.72,2034.7,{"idx":2101,"utterance_id":2102,"speaker_name":176,"text":2103,"start_s":2104,"end_s":2105,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},325,"211484","That story about everyone being equal before the law, but no longer equal.",2034.74,2036.82,{"idx":2107,"utterance_id":2108,"speaker_name":176,"text":2109,"start_s":2110,"end_s":2111,"word_count":459,"indexable":180},326,"211485","That's right — he has vacations, he can afford a good house, eat well, which is fair, he has the right to a good school for his child, the right to go to Europe for his holidays, the right to go to the theater, cinema.",2036.84,2047.06,{"idx":2113,"utterance_id":2114,"speaker_name":176,"text":2115,"start_s":2116,"end_s":2117,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},327,"211486","The wretch who earns 804 cruzados — what rights does he have in this democracy that makes people as unequal as in Brazil?",2047.54,2055.14,{"idx":2119,"utterance_id":2120,"speaker_name":176,"text":2121,"start_s":2122,"end_s":2123,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},328,"211487","So I think we're still far from achieving democracy, because merely institutional democracy does not solve the problem of democracy.",2055.7,2065.28,{"idx":2125,"utterance_id":2126,"speaker_name":176,"text":2127,"start_s":2128,"end_s":2129,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},329,"211488","There needs to be democratization in the economic sphere for us to be able to solve society's problem.",2065.32,2073.5,{"idx":2131,"utterance_id":2132,"speaker_name":176,"text":2133,"start_s":2134,"end_s":2135,"word_count":436,"indexable":180},330,"211489","Lenildo is itching to ask you a question, but after Lenildo I will ask everyone's permission — I'd like to hand the floor to Júlio Lobo, who, as an economist and consultant to companies in the area of negotiations with workers...",2073.52,2084.3,{"idx":2137,"utterance_id":2138,"speaker_name":176,"text":2139,"start_s":2140,"end_s":2141,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},331,"211490","advisor to large multinationals, he already wanted to speak when you were discussing, when you were touching on the problem of socialization and such.",2084.9,2091.9,{"idx":2143,"utterance_id":2144,"speaker_name":176,"text":2145,"start_s":2146,"end_s":2147,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},332,"211491","He has signaled me several times.",2091.92,2093.14,{"idx":2149,"utterance_id":2150,"speaker_name":176,"text":2151,"start_s":2152,"end_s":2153,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},333,"211492","So, after Lenildo, please, the floor is Júlio's.",2093.34,2096.38,{"idx":2155,"utterance_id":2156,"speaker_name":176,"text":2157,"start_s":2158,"end_s":2159,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},334,"211493","Please, Lenildo.",2096.68,2097.32,{"idx":2161,"utterance_id":2162,"speaker_name":176,"text":2163,"start_s":2164,"end_s":2165,"word_count":424,"indexable":180},335,"211494","Lula, I think you contradicted yourself several times in everything you said, because you seem to consider the Congress as an institution above suspicion, which should discuss the external debt and then the external debt would be legitimized, etc.",2097.44,2109.7,{"idx":2167,"utterance_id":2168,"speaker_name":176,"text":2169,"start_s":2170,"end_s":2171,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},336,"211495","Then you said that democracy in Brazil is a masked democracy.",2110.5,2113.2,{"idx":2173,"utterance_id":2174,"speaker_name":176,"text":2175,"start_s":2176,"end_s":2177,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},337,"211496","The people lack information, are manipulated by the dominant class.",2113.4,2117.12,{"idx":2179,"utterance_id":2180,"speaker_name":176,"text":2181,"start_s":2182,"end_s":2183,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},338,"211497","It is these people who elect the Congress.",2117.54,2118.94,{"idx":2185,"utterance_id":2186,"speaker_name":176,"text":2187,"start_s":2188,"end_s":2189,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},339,"211498","So, ultimately, the Congress is also an instrument of the dominant class.",2119.36,2122.52,{"idx":2191,"utterance_id":2192,"speaker_name":176,"text":2193,"start_s":2194,"end_s":2195,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},340,"211499","Look, here's what I think: it's quite possible that I've made several contradictions, but the concrete fact is that a citizen reacts according to the amount of information he has.",2122.7,2132.96,{"idx":2197,"utterance_id":2198,"speaker_name":176,"text":2199,"start_s":2200,"end_s":2201,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},341,"211500","If he doesn't have information, he doesn't react.",2133.54,2135.94,{"idx":2203,"utterance_id":2204,"speaker_name":176,"text":2205,"start_s":2206,"end_s":2207,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},342,"211501","Why is it that today in the elections, in these 1986 elections, almost 50% are null or blank votes.",2136.46,2142.84,{"idx":2209,"utterance_id":2210,"speaker_name":176,"text":2211,"start_s":2212,"end_s":2213,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},343,"211502","But I agree with you.",2143,2143.88,{"idx":2215,"utterance_id":2216,"speaker_name":176,"text":2217,"start_s":2218,"end_s":2219,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},344,"211503","It's exactly because the people lack information.",2144.4,2146.22,{"idx":2221,"utterance_id":2222,"speaker_name":176,"text":2223,"start_s":2224,"end_s":2225,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},345,"211504","Now,",2146.68,2146.96,{"idx":2227,"utterance_id":2228,"speaker_name":176,"text":2229,"start_s":2230,"end_s":2231,"word_count":491,"indexable":180},346,"211505","when I said the National Congress, and I know that the National Congress is conservative, I know that the National Congress has a large majority of people of the most extreme conservatism, representatives, almost to a great extent, of a social segment called economic power, whether direct or indirect, and that it's not just the National Congress.",2147.84,2169.02,{"idx":2233,"utterance_id":2234,"speaker_name":176,"text":2235,"start_s":2236,"end_s":2237,"word_count":576,"indexable":180},347,"211506","We have representative entities of civil society, we have the trade union movement, and it was necessary, when we demanded that the trade union movement should participate in the National Monetary Council, because we understood it wasn't fair for Mr. Abílio Diniz, owner of one of the largest supermarket chains in Brazil, to have a seat on the National Monetary Council while the worker stood outside sucking his thumb.",2169.52,2191.9,{"idx":2239,"utterance_id":2240,"speaker_name":176,"text":2241,"start_s":2242,"end_s":2243,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},348,"211507","But then it doesn't make sense for you to defend that the National Congress discuss the external debt and imply that if it discusses...",2191.98,2196.56,{"idx":2245,"utterance_id":2246,"speaker_name":176,"text":2247,"start_s":2248,"end_s":2249,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},349,"211508","It makes sense, it makes sense.",2196.58,2197.58,{"idx":2251,"utterance_id":2252,"speaker_name":176,"text":2253,"start_s":2254,"end_s":2255,"word_count":418,"indexable":180},350,"211509","I even proposed, Lenildo — I don't know if you watched the day Ulisses Guimarães was on Roda Viva — I proposed, in fact, that one way to moralize that National Congress was to televise the sessions of the Constituent Congress.",2198,2213.84,{"idx":2257,"utterance_id":2258,"speaker_name":176,"text":2259,"start_s":2260,"end_s":2261,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},351,"211510","Do you know why?",2214.42,2214.92,{"idx":2263,"utterance_id":2264,"speaker_name":176,"text":2265,"start_s":2266,"end_s":2267,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},352,"211511","Because then the people would watch the shenanigans that take place in Brasília.",2215.04,2219.5,{"idx":2269,"utterance_id":2270,"speaker_name":176,"text":2271,"start_s":2272,"end_s":2273,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},353,"211512","They would watch the cosmetic cover-ups that exist in Brasília.",2220.04,2223.18,{"idx":2275,"utterance_id":2276,"speaker_name":176,"text":2277,"start_s":2278,"end_s":2279,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},354,"211513","And then the people would...",2223.68,2224.62,{"idx":2281,"utterance_id":2282,"speaker_name":176,"text":2283,"start_s":2284,"end_s":2285,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},355,"211514","The people would begin to...",2225.22,2226.16,{"idx":2287,"utterance_id":2288,"speaker_name":176,"text":2289,"start_s":2290,"end_s":2291,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},356,"211515","That's right, but it was important for the people to see, because then the people would know about pressure.",2226.4,2229.64,{"idx":2293,"utterance_id":2294,"speaker_name":176,"text":2295,"start_s":2296,"end_s":2297,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},357,"211516","I've already seen that National Congress without pressure.",2230.26,2232.42,{"idx":2299,"utterance_id":2300,"speaker_name":176,"text":2301,"start_s":2302,"end_s":2303,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},358,"211517","I've already seen 5,000 people in that National Congress 'make a deputy'.",2233.04,2236.72,{"idx":2305,"utterance_id":2306,"speaker_name":176,"text":2307,"start_s":2308,"end_s":2309,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},359,"211518","To 'make a deputy' is to change a vote.",2236.86,2238.3,{"idx":2311,"utterance_id":2312,"speaker_name":176,"text":2313,"start_s":2314,"end_s":2315,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},360,"211519","What is needed is to create instruments so that society can exert pressure.",2239.28,2243.14,{"idx":2317,"utterance_id":2318,"speaker_name":176,"text":2319,"start_s":2320,"end_s":2321,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},361,"211520","And when I suggested there could be televising... it was because I think it's one of the ways for citizens to better follow what happens in Brasília.",2243.16,2250.52,{"idx":2323,"utterance_id":2324,"speaker_name":176,"text":2325,"start_s":2326,"end_s":2327,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},362,"211521","Especially the citizen who doesn't have the slightest chance of following what happens in Brasília.",2250.64,2255.22,{"idx":2329,"utterance_id":2330,"speaker_name":176,"text":2331,"start_s":2332,"end_s":2333,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},363,"211522","I wanted to defend Lula here, in relation to the Congress, and say the following.",2255.24,2259.02,{"idx":2335,"utterance_id":2336,"speaker_name":176,"text":2337,"start_s":2338,"end_s":2339,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},364,"211523","During the electoral primaries this past November, all the opinion polls revealed a fact that received little attention in the reporting of the polls, but which is extremely important and serious.",2259.86,2271.56,{"idx":2341,"utterance_id":2342,"speaker_name":176,"text":2343,"start_s":2344,"end_s":2345,"word_count":194,"indexable":180},365,"211524","Which is as follows: 80% of those interviewed — and I remember a survey with a universe of 2,400 people — 80% of voters did not trust politicians, from various social classes, and thought that voting did not have the power to change anything.",2272.38,2290.1,{"idx":2347,"utterance_id":2348,"speaker_name":176,"text":2349,"start_s":2350,"end_s":2351,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},366,"211525","And hence the fifty-some percent of null votes you observed in some areas, some sectors in this election.",2290.86,2297.6,{"idx":2353,"utterance_id":2354,"speaker_name":176,"text":2355,"start_s":2356,"end_s":2357,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},367,"211526","There is an effective distrust of the Brazilian population toward the Congress.",2298.16,2301.62,{"idx":2359,"utterance_id":2360,"speaker_name":176,"text":2361,"start_s":2362,"end_s":2363,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},368,"211527","And the Congress has been against the Brazilian population in recent years, at decisive moments in national life.",2301.76,2307.6,{"idx":2365,"utterance_id":2366,"speaker_name":176,"text":2367,"start_s":2368,"end_s":2369,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},369,"211528","And to cite just one example, I cite the case of direct elections.",2308.14,2310.78,{"idx":2371,"utterance_id":2372,"speaker_name":176,"text":2373,"start_s":2374,"end_s":2375,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},370,"211529","That is, there's no doubt, I think I have to defend it, because there's an urgent need to renew its mentality.",2311.4,2318.64,{"idx":2377,"utterance_id":2378,"speaker_name":176,"text":2379,"start_s":2380,"end_s":2381,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},371,"211530","Nascimento,",2319.72,2320.16,{"idx":2383,"utterance_id":2384,"speaker_name":176,"text":2385,"start_s":2386,"end_s":2387,"word_count":557,"indexable":180},372,"211531","the issue of job stability that is in the National Congress, and that the people were deceived just because of the election period — the Senate approved a bill to send to the Chamber of Deputies, the Chamber of Deputies approved another to send to the Senate, and President Sarney himself saying categorically that he was against stability because it violated, I don't know, the principle of free enterprise.",2321.24,2339.76,{"idx":2389,"utterance_id":2390,"speaker_name":176,"text":2391,"start_s":2392,"end_s":2393,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},373,"211532","When we need to guarantee every worker in this country that he can get up in the morning with the peace of mind that he will not lose his job.",2340.36,2346.32,{"idx":2395,"utterance_id":2396,"speaker_name":176,"text":2397,"start_s":2398,"end_s":2399,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},374,"211533","Well, but now, Lula, you are a deputy, a constituent, you lead a party and will have a seat in that Congress, right?",2346.38,2353.8,{"idx":2401,"utterance_id":2402,"speaker_name":176,"text":2403,"start_s":2404,"end_s":2405,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},375,"211534","And it's evident that you are not the majority in there, but at this point you must have a strategy of action together with your people.",2354.32,2360.98,{"idx":2407,"utterance_id":2408,"speaker_name":176,"text":2409,"start_s":2410,"end_s":2411,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},376,"211535","How will Lula as deputy and your party be in a year of the constituent assembly?",2361.36,2365.18,{"idx":2413,"utterance_id":2414,"speaker_name":176,"text":2415,"start_s":2416,"end_s":2417,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},377,"211536","How are you going to maneuver around in there?",2365.82,2367.48,{"idx":2419,"utterance_id":2420,"speaker_name":176,"text":2421,"start_s":2422,"end_s":2423,"word_count":406,"indexable":180},378,"211537","Look, first... First, we'll have a directory meeting next Saturday and Sunday and we'll have an extraordinary convention on January 29 so that we can establish our level of action in the National Congress.",2367.82,2385.46,{"idx":2425,"utterance_id":2426,"speaker_name":176,"text":2427,"start_s":2428,"end_s":2429,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},379,"211538","Is that at the national level?",2385.48,2386.34,{"idx":2431,"utterance_id":2432,"speaker_name":176,"text":2433,"start_s":2434,"end_s":2435,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},380,"211539","First, we will inform public opinion that we are a minority in the National Congress.",2386.7,2391.08,{"idx":2437,"utterance_id":2438,"speaker_name":176,"text":2439,"start_s":2440,"end_s":2441,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},381,"211540","We will say that it is humanly impossible, from the point of view of nominal voting, for us to manage to do.",2391.84,2398.12,{"idx":2443,"utterance_id":2444,"speaker_name":176,"text":2445,"start_s":2446,"end_s":2447,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},382,"211541","some of our points of view.",2399.82,2401.24,{"idx":2449,"utterance_id":2450,"speaker_name":176,"text":2451,"start_s":2452,"end_s":2453,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},383,"211542","However, what do we have to do?",2401.34,2402.86,{"idx":2455,"utterance_id":2456,"speaker_name":176,"text":2457,"start_s":2458,"end_s":2459,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},384,"211543","Educate the population to understand what?",2404.04,2406.36,{"idx":2461,"utterance_id":2462,"speaker_name":176,"text":2463,"start_s":2464,"end_s":2465,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},385,"211544","That it is possible to have alliances in the National Congress.",2406.88,2409.42,{"idx":2467,"utterance_id":2468,"speaker_name":176,"text":2469,"start_s":2470,"end_s":2471,"word_count":389,"indexable":180},386,"211545","I'm sure that within the PMDB there will be comrades who defend things like job stability, who defend things like that the military should have their organization aimed much more at defense",2409.9,2422.6,{"idx":2473,"utterance_id":2474,"speaker_name":176,"text":2475,"start_s":2476,"end_s":2477,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},387,"211546","against external enemies than spending time looking for internal enemies.",2423.1,2426.04,{"idx":2479,"utterance_id":2480,"speaker_name":176,"text":2481,"start_s":2482,"end_s":2483,"word_count":642,"indexable":180},388,"211547","I'm sure that the issue of agrarian reform are matters that interest people from other political parties and we will try, together with those people, to find a way to make it so that, with there being denunciations, with the popularization of the things discussed in the National Congress and with pressure from the social movement, I think we can make some people, today conservative, advance at least the minimum necessary so as not to repeat the 1946 Constitution.",2426.58,2455.78,{"idx":2485,"utterance_id":2486,"speaker_name":176,"text":2487,"start_s":2488,"end_s":2489,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},389,"211548","That is to say, you're inclined to make alliances within the Congress.",2456.12,2459.38,{"idx":2491,"utterance_id":2492,"speaker_name":176,"text":2493,"start_s":2494,"end_s":2495,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},390,"211549","I think at the parliamentary level we have always had that concern.",2460.52,2464.32,{"idx":2497,"utterance_id":2498,"speaker_name":176,"text":2499,"start_s":2500,"end_s":2501,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},391,"211550","Lula, returning to the socialization of the means of production that you seem to favor, Minister Passianotto is coming up with a bill on profit-sharing.",2464.68,2475.2,{"idx":2503,"utterance_id":2504,"speaker_name":176,"text":2505,"start_s":2506,"end_s":2507,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},392,"211551","Now the recent package brings a plan for investment for the worker and the employer to participate together in the market.",2475.8,2485.16,{"idx":2509,"utterance_id":2510,"speaker_name":176,"text":2511,"start_s":2512,"end_s":2513,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},393,"211552","They are capitalist instruments in a supposedly capitalist society.",2486.56,2490.64,{"idx":2515,"utterance_id":2516,"speaker_name":176,"text":2517,"start_s":2518,"end_s":2519,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},394,"211553","And workers so far seem not to mind participating in the profits.",2491.38,2495.6,{"idx":2521,"utterance_id":2522,"speaker_name":176,"text":2523,"start_s":2524,"end_s":2525,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},395,"211554","How does that reconcile with this socialization of the means of production?",2496.18,2500.56,{"idx":2527,"utterance_id":2528,"speaker_name":176,"text":2529,"start_s":2530,"end_s":2531,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},396,"211555","Minister Amílio Pazianotto must be joking.",2501.28,2503.32,{"idx":2533,"utterance_id":2534,"speaker_name":176,"text":2535,"start_s":2536,"end_s":2537,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},397,"211556","Because there already exists in the current Constitution a guarantee that workers should share in the profits of companies.",2504.1,2510.24,{"idx":2539,"utterance_id":2540,"speaker_name":176,"text":2541,"start_s":2542,"end_s":2543,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},398,"211557","And no instrument was ever created to allow workers to participate.",2511.16,2514.76,{"idx":2545,"utterance_id":2546,"speaker_name":176,"text":2547,"start_s":2548,"end_s":2549,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},399,"211558","Because for workers to participate in the profits, it's necessary that workers have participation in the management of the company.",2515.28,2522.44,{"idx":2551,"utterance_id":2552,"speaker_name":176,"text":2553,"start_s":2554,"end_s":2555,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},400,"211559","Workers need to have control of the company.",2522.98,2531.14,{"idx":2557,"utterance_id":2558,"speaker_name":176,"text":2559,"start_s":2560,"end_s":2561,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},401,"211560","Otherwise... But then that means that as long as workers have access to information, they can share in the profits, given that profit has nothing to do with the socialization of the means of production.",2531.2,2546.32,{"idx":2563,"utterance_id":2564,"speaker_name":176,"text":2565,"start_s":2566,"end_s":2567,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},402,"211561","And I am arguing based on the reality that exists today.",2546.94,2558.36,{"idx":2569,"utterance_id":2570,"speaker_name":176,"text":2571,"start_s":2572,"end_s":2573,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},403,"211562","Today my basic task is to fight to improve the living conditions of the Brazilian working class.",2558.8,2565.08,{"idx":2575,"utterance_id":2576,"speaker_name":176,"text":2577,"start_s":2578,"end_s":2579,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},404,"211563","Which still has many who do not have a plate of food to eat.",2565.98,2569.1,{"idx":2581,"utterance_id":2582,"speaker_name":176,"text":2583,"start_s":2584,"end_s":2585,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},405,"211564","Which still has many earning less than a minimum wage.",2569.56,2571.64,{"idx":2587,"utterance_id":2588,"speaker_name":176,"text":2589,"start_s":2590,"end_s":2591,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},406,"211565","Taking this struggle's observation, there is a prediction of yours that was made a few minutes ago, somewhat worrying.",2571.66,2579.22,{"idx":2593,"utterance_id":2594,"speaker_name":176,"text":2595,"start_s":2596,"end_s":2597,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},407,"211566","If the government does not take care, then we... will enter a period of turbulence.",2579.56,2584.84,{"idx":2599,"utterance_id":2600,"speaker_name":176,"text":2601,"start_s":2602,"end_s":2603,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},408,"211567","Worrying is the prediction, Lobos, that you made, stated, in the yellow pages of Veja magazine.",2585.4,2591.4,{"idx":2605,"utterance_id":2606,"speaker_name":176,"text":2607,"start_s":2608,"end_s":2609,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},409,"211568","When you stated that unionists and activist workers inside the factory had to be fired because those people are dangerous inside the factory.",2592.32,2602.28,{"idx":2611,"utterance_id":2612,"speaker_name":176,"text":2613,"start_s":2614,"end_s":2615,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},410,"211569","That is an elementary attack against democracy.",2602.98,2605.4,{"idx":2617,"utterance_id":2618,"speaker_name":176,"text":2619,"start_s":2620,"end_s":2621,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},411,"211570","This has a supplement.",2605.42,2606.18,{"idx":2623,"utterance_id":2624,"speaker_name":176,"text":2625,"start_s":2626,"end_s":2627,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},412,"211571","The supplement is the following.",2606.2,2607.32,{"idx":2629,"utterance_id":2630,"speaker_name":176,"text":2631,"start_s":2632,"end_s":2633,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},413,"211572","An activist who vandalizes the company's property.",2607.7,2610.34,{"idx":2635,"utterance_id":2636,"speaker_name":176,"text":2637,"start_s":2638,"end_s":2639,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},414,"211573","I ask you, what is your opinion?",2610.78,2612.16,{"idx":2641,"utterance_id":2642,"speaker_name":176,"text":2643,"start_s":2644,"end_s":2645,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},415,"211574","Someone broke your property at home.",2612.62,2614.48,{"idx":2647,"utterance_id":2648,"speaker_name":176,"text":2649,"start_s":2650,"end_s":2651,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},416,"211575","What would you do?",2614.56,2615.96,{"idx":2653,"utterance_id":2654,"speaker_name":176,"text":2655,"start_s":2656,"end_s":2657,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},417,"211576","No, but that was in the interview.",2616.06,2618.72,{"idx":2659,"utterance_id":2660,"speaker_name":176,"text":2661,"start_s":2662,"end_s":2663,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},418,"211577","The practice, I don't know if it is the line of Veja's Yellow pages, or if it is some other secret orientation of the group that advises the business owners.",2619.36,2627.88,{"idx":2665,"utterance_id":2666,"speaker_name":176,"text":2667,"start_s":2668,"end_s":2669,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},419,"211578","The practice is that, for the past year, the job security of the union leader, the job security of the factory committee, the job security of the CIPA member is a fallacy.",2627.98,2638.98,{"idx":2671,"utterance_id":2672,"speaker_name":176,"text":2673,"start_s":2674,"end_s":2675,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},420,"211579","Because it is enough for there to be a strike and the workers go a month without entering the company.",2639.46,2644.24,{"idx":2677,"utterance_id":2678,"speaker_name":176,"text":2679,"start_s":2680,"end_s":2681,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},421,"211580","We are talking about something concrete.",2644.26,2645.72,{"idx":2683,"utterance_id":2684,"speaker_name":176,"text":2685,"start_s":2686,"end_s":2687,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},422,"211581","We are talking about a worker who vandalizes the company's property.",2645.74,2648.64,{"idx":2689,"utterance_id":2690,"speaker_name":176,"text":2691,"start_s":2692,"end_s":2693,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},423,"211582","I am telling you that that does not happen.",2649.1,2651.28,{"idx":2695,"utterance_id":2696,"speaker_name":176,"text":2697,"start_s":2698,"end_s":2699,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},424,"211583","I am telling you that the company dismisses them.",2651.82,2654.02,{"idx":2701,"utterance_id":2702,"speaker_name":176,"text":2703,"start_s":2704,"end_s":2705,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},425,"211584","What does the employer do with this worker?",2654.14,2655.92,{"idx":2707,"utterance_id":2708,"speaker_name":176,"text":2709,"start_s":2710,"end_s":2711,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},426,"211585","Didn't the packaging operation in the formula happen?",2657.42,2659.48,{"idx":2713,"utterance_id":2714,"speaker_name":176,"text":2715,"start_s":2716,"end_s":2717,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},427,"211586","The packaging operation didn't happen.",2659.72,2661.16,{"idx":2719,"utterance_id":2720,"speaker_name":176,"text":2721,"start_s":2722,"end_s":2723,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},428,"211587","It happened.",2661.24,2661.88,{"idx":2725,"utterance_id":2726,"speaker_name":176,"text":2727,"start_s":2728,"end_s":2729,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},429,"211588","And what is your position regarding this?",2662.34,2663.66,{"idx":2731,"utterance_id":2732,"speaker_name":176,"text":2733,"start_s":2734,"end_s":2735,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},430,"211589","I would like to know.",2663.68,2664.82,{"idx":2737,"utterance_id":2738,"speaker_name":176,"text":2739,"start_s":2740,"end_s":2741,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},431,"211590","Thank you very much for the opportunity.",2664.9,2666.44,{"idx":2743,"utterance_id":2744,"speaker_name":176,"text":2745,"start_s":2746,"end_s":2747,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},432,"211591","But I would like to know.",2666.6,2667.38,{"idx":2749,"utterance_id":2750,"speaker_name":176,"text":2751,"start_s":2752,"end_s":2753,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},433,"211592","It's an honor to hear.",2667.46,2668.42,{"idx":2755,"utterance_id":2756,"speaker_name":176,"text":2751,"start_s":2757,"end_s":2758,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},434,"211593",2669.06,2671.18,{"idx":2760,"utterance_id":2761,"speaker_name":176,"text":2762,"start_s":2763,"end_s":2764,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},435,"211594","What does the employer do with that worker?",2671.66,2674.04,{"idx":2766,"utterance_id":2767,"speaker_name":176,"text":2768,"start_s":2769,"end_s":2770,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},436,"211595","I'm not talking about the management, the leader, the factory production.",2674.06,2676.62,{"idx":2772,"utterance_id":2773,"speaker_name":176,"text":2774,"start_s":2775,"end_s":2776,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},437,"211596","I'm talking about the worker who vandalizes the property.",2676.64,2678.86,{"idx":2778,"utterance_id":2779,"speaker_name":176,"text":2780,"start_s":2781,"end_s":2782,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},438,"211597","I'll be frank with you, the thing is.",2678.9,2680.4,{"idx":2784,"utterance_id":2785,"speaker_name":176,"text":2786,"start_s":2787,"end_s":2788,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},439,"211598","First, I'd like to discuss with you what it means to vandalize property.",2680.56,2683.68,{"idx":2790,"utterance_id":2791,"speaker_name":176,"text":2792,"start_s":2793,"end_s":2794,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},440,"211599","One must know the following.",2685.02,2685.9,{"idx":2796,"utterance_id":2797,"speaker_name":176,"text":2798,"start_s":2799,"end_s":2800,"word_count":436,"indexable":180},441,"211600","Because I think, look, I think that if the worker, during a strike movement, vandalizes property, I think the worker must be punished, not only—indeed, even by his own union—the responsibility for the act of vandalism must be demanded.",2685.92,2702.94,{"idx":2802,"utterance_id":2803,"speaker_name":176,"text":2804,"start_s":2805,"end_s":2806,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},442,"211601","Now look, the concrete fact is that I challenge anyone to say what constitutes depredation of property, and I will address Bori's question, which the workers have already asked.",2703.04,2714.92,{"idx":2808,"utterance_id":2809,"speaker_name":176,"text":2810,"start_s":2811,"end_s":2812,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},443,"211602","The big question I've been asking ministers and the press and anyone who wants to answer is the following: the great asset of this country is not only capital, it is the workers.",2715.66,2725.92,{"idx":2814,"utterance_id":2815,"speaker_name":176,"text":2816,"start_s":2817,"end_s":2818,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},444,"211603","And they are violated daily, in the wages they earn, in the working conditions, and nothing is done to protect these workers.",2726.68,2735.78,{"idx":2820,"utterance_id":2821,"speaker_name":176,"text":2822,"start_s":2823,"end_s":2824,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},445,"211604","Look, we have in Brazil 5,000 workers who die in workplace accidents every year.",2736.2,2742,{"idx":2826,"utterance_id":2827,"speaker_name":176,"text":2828,"start_s":2829,"end_s":2830,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},446,"211605","I have never seen an employer arrested.",2742.6,2744.22,{"idx":2832,"utterance_id":2833,"speaker_name":176,"text":2834,"start_s":2835,"end_s":2836,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},447,"211606","and criminally prosecuted for allowing the worker to die due to poor working conditions, as happens in France.",2744.6,2751.08,{"idx":2838,"utterance_id":2839,"speaker_name":176,"text":2840,"start_s":2841,"end_s":2842,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},448,"211607","No one says it shouldn't be, but does that justify that someone who vandalizes company property...",2751.1,2755.7,{"idx":2844,"utterance_id":2845,"speaker_name":176,"text":2846,"start_s":2847,"end_s":2848,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},449,"211608","Ana, look, if the worker is violated daily, I find it more than natural that there be a reaction.",2755.88,2761.28,{"idx":2850,"utterance_id":2851,"speaker_name":176,"text":2852,"start_s":2853,"end_s":2854,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},450,"211609","I think it's only natural that there be a reaction.",2762.42,2764.18,{"idx":2856,"utterance_id":2857,"speaker_name":176,"text":2858,"start_s":2859,"end_s":2860,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},451,"211610","The employer must treat the worker with a minimum of decency if he does not want the worker to act violently, as in the case of Ford.",2764.66,2772.14,{"idx":2862,"utterance_id":2863,"speaker_name":176,"text":2864,"start_s":2865,"end_s":2866,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},452,"211611","Ford is a unique company in this country from the point of view of the organization of the working class.",2772.7,2777.88,{"idx":2868,"utterance_id":2869,"speaker_name":176,"text":2870,"start_s":2871,"end_s":2872,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},453,"211612","This is neither the first nor the eleventh strike that has happened at Ford.",2778.32,2781.8,{"idx":2874,"utterance_id":2875,"speaker_name":176,"text":2876,"start_s":2877,"end_s":2878,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},454,"211613","The workers never touched so much as a comma at Ford.",2782.3,2786.48,{"idx":2880,"utterance_id":2881,"speaker_name":176,"text":2882,"start_s":2883,"end_s":2884,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},455,"211614","They never even touched a fence at Ford.",2787.28,2789.88,{"idx":2886,"utterance_id":2887,"speaker_name":176,"text":2888,"start_s":2889,"end_s":2890,"word_count":612,"indexable":180},456,"211615","However, after the last strike, which occurred three or four months ago, the process of persecution that Ford began against its workers... after sending the entire committee away and removing all union leaders, created such a climate of revolt that we have in the union around 3,000 workers who want to resign because they can't stand working anymore because of the conditions of internal pressure within Ford.",2789.94,2818.98,{"idx":2892,"utterance_id":2893,"speaker_name":176,"text":2894,"start_s":2895,"end_s":2896,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},457,"211616","So, look, the fact that the workers rebelled was an almost natural and spontaneous revolt of a group of workers who were saturated.",2819.04,2827.6,{"idx":2898,"utterance_id":2899,"speaker_name":176,"text":2900,"start_s":2901,"end_s":2902,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},458,"211617","If you go to Ford today, Boris... Ford even created a Polish corridor so that its guards keep watching a worker.",2827.98,2835.42,{"idx":2904,"utterance_id":2905,"speaker_name":176,"text":2906,"start_s":2907,"end_s":2908,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},459,"211618","But does that justify violence against the cars?",2835.44,2837.34,{"idx":2910,"utterance_id":2911,"speaker_name":176,"text":2912,"start_s":2913,"end_s":2914,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},460,"211619","Look, I think that violence...",2837.36,2839.16,{"idx":2916,"utterance_id":2917,"speaker_name":176,"text":2918,"start_s":2919,"end_s":2920,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},461,"211620","Does it justify violence against the workers?",2839.18,2841.42,{"idx":2922,"utterance_id":2923,"speaker_name":176,"text":2924,"start_s":2925,"end_s":2926,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},462,"211621","I think the following: this year, Lula, and I would like you to comment on this, the trade union movement has gone through a series of accusations and persecutions.",2841.58,2854.7,{"idx":2928,"utterance_id":2929,"speaker_name":176,"text":2930,"start_s":2931,"end_s":2932,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},463,"211622","The strike law has never been so enforced.",2855.02,2857.4,{"idx":2934,"utterance_id":2935,"speaker_name":176,"text":2936,"start_s":2937,"end_s":2938,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},464,"211623","as in 1986.",2857.92,2858.76,{"idx":2940,"utterance_id":2941,"speaker_name":176,"text":2942,"start_s":2943,"end_s":2944,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},465,"211624","There was no removal of union leaders by the government, but how many were there by the employers, by the bosses.",2861.16,2871.44,{"idx":2946,"utterance_id":2947,"speaker_name":176,"text":2948,"start_s":2949,"end_s":2950,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},466,"211625","What is Operation Leme?",2872.12,2873.72,{"idx":2952,"utterance_id":2953,"speaker_name":176,"text":2954,"start_s":2955,"end_s":2956,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},467,"211626","I'd like you to speak a little about that to make it clearer, because otherwise one ends up talking about 100 automobiles that may even have been damaged in the production process and forgetting what... is happening in this country.",2874.4,2888.58,{"idx":2958,"utterance_id":2959,"speaker_name":176,"text":2960,"start_s":2961,"end_s":2962,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},468,"211627","No, Barelli, they were not damaged because Ford's gate was also breached by a truck or pickup that blew the gate to get in.",2888.7,2897.18,{"idx":2964,"utterance_id":2965,"speaker_name":176,"text":2966,"start_s":2967,"end_s":2968,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},469,"211628","It was an act of violence caused by a group of workers who may be discontented, absolutely unexpected.",2897.38,2903.2,{"idx":2970,"utterance_id":2971,"speaker_name":176,"text":2972,"start_s":2973,"end_s":2974,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},470,"211629","But let's suppose, I'll take your cue to be able to enter Barelli's answer, analyze what Barelli is asking.",2903.44,2909.3,{"idx":2976,"utterance_id":2977,"speaker_name":176,"text":2978,"start_s":2979,"end_s":2980,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},471,"211630","Let's suppose it were true that the truck's bus arrived at Ford's gate and Ford put... its 100 or 150 guards, to prevent the union from talking to the workers?",2909.32,2920.68,{"idx":2982,"utterance_id":2983,"speaker_name":176,"text":2984,"start_s":2985,"end_s":2986,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},472,"211631","And if Ford's machines are Ford's property, the people who work inside are not its property, therefore it has no right to treat them as prisoners and force them to enter without talking to the union?",2921.16,2932.18,{"idx":2988,"utterance_id":2989,"speaker_name":176,"text":2990,"start_s":2991,"end_s":2992,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},473,"211632","Let's suppose that Ford's attitude caused this.",2933.26,2935.54,{"idx":2994,"utterance_id":2995,"speaker_name":176,"text":2996,"start_s":2997,"end_s":2998,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},474,"211633","Now, you take, you take, 100 cars, which is what the press said were damaged, which Ford reported, which I don't even know if it's true.",2936.28,2944.16,{"idx":3000,"utterance_id":3001,"speaker_name":176,"text":3002,"start_s":3003,"end_s":3004,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},475,"211634","Because it only allowed the Federal Police to conduct an audit.",2944.58,2947.02,{"idx":3006,"utterance_id":3007,"speaker_name":176,"text":3008,"start_s":3009,"end_s":3010,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},476,"211635","Comrade Meneghel asked to visit Ford; they did not permit it.",2947.7,2950.92,{"idx":3012,"utterance_id":3013,"speaker_name":176,"text":3014,"start_s":3015,"end_s":3016,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},477,"211636","So, since I'm tired of frauds against the working class, I am not obliged to believe the information that Romeu Tuma gave from Ford.",2952.06,2963.64,{"idx":3018,"utterance_id":3019,"speaker_name":176,"text":3020,"start_s":3021,"end_s":3022,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},478,"211637","Nor am I obliged to believe the complaint that Ford made about the damaged cars.",2963.7,2969.44,{"idx":3024,"utterance_id":3025,"speaker_name":176,"text":3026,"start_s":3027,"end_s":3028,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},479,"211638","The truth is that Ford, if you analyze it well, has ruined more workers' lives than it has damaged cars inside.",2970.02,2975.6,{"idx":3030,"utterance_id":3031,"speaker_name":176,"text":3032,"start_s":3033,"end_s":3034,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},480,"211639","But what Barreiros said is a very dangerous and very serious thing that happened in this country of the New Republic.",2976.12,2981.58,{"idx":3036,"utterance_id":3037,"speaker_name":176,"text":3038,"start_s":3039,"end_s":3040,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},481,"211640","I have said, and everyone here knows, it's no secret, and every viewer knows, that I am not an enemy of the businessman.",2982.02,2987.72,{"idx":3042,"utterance_id":3043,"speaker_name":176,"text":3044,"start_s":3045,"end_s":3046,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},482,"211641","Amílio Pazianotto was a lawyer who worked with me since 1970.",2987.86,2991.38,{"idx":3048,"utterance_id":3049,"speaker_name":176,"text":3050,"start_s":3051,"end_s":3052,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},483,"211642","In 1975, he was hired by me to be legal advisor to the union's board and, it must be said, provided, in the time he worked with me, an extraordinary service to our category.",2992.44,3005.12,{"idx":3054,"utterance_id":3055,"speaker_name":176,"text":3056,"start_s":3057,"end_s":3058,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},484,"211643","However, Amílio Pazianotto was elevated to the post of Minister of Labor.",3005.5,3009.44,{"idx":3060,"utterance_id":3061,"speaker_name":176,"text":3062,"start_s":3063,"end_s":3064,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},485,"211644","And then what did I start to feel?",3009.9,3011.3,{"idx":3066,"utterance_id":3067,"speaker_name":176,"text":3068,"start_s":3069,"end_s":3070,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},486,"211645","And I began to denounce that the form changed, but the content was the same.",3012.14,3017.98,{"idx":3072,"utterance_id":3073,"speaker_name":176,"text":3074,"start_s":3075,"end_s":3076,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},487,"211646","That is to say, before, in the time of the military regime, when you went on strike, what happened?",3018.68,3022.94,{"idx":3078,"utterance_id":3079,"speaker_name":176,"text":3080,"start_s":3081,"end_s":3082,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},488,"211647","The strike went to court, was judged illegal, the police came, used force, and the workers returned to work, complying, and many of you here witnessed that.",3023.6,3033.96,{"idx":3084,"utterance_id":3085,"speaker_name":176,"text":3086,"start_s":3087,"end_s":3088,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},489,"211648","And the Minister of Labor at the time, Murilo Macedo, Arnaldo da Costa Prieto, or Javas Passarim, in '68, would say, no, we must use the law, we are against the strike, and it is necessary to return to work.",3034.5,3044.64,{"idx":3090,"utterance_id":3091,"speaker_name":176,"text":3092,"start_s":3093,"end_s":3094,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},490,"211649","Today, it is no longer like that.",3045.22,3046.82,{"idx":3096,"utterance_id":3097,"speaker_name":176,"text":3098,"start_s":3099,"end_s":3100,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},491,"211650","Almir Pazenotto is not truculent.",3047.18,3048.86,{"idx":3102,"utterance_id":3103,"speaker_name":176,"text":3104,"start_s":3105,"end_s":3106,"word_count":576,"indexable":180},492,"211651","In truth, he acts with a certain cynicism, because he goes on television smiling, all good on the surface, saying he is in favor of the strike, thinks the strike is just, but he knows that the company is dismissing all activists, he knows the company is firing all the workers, as happened in the VASP strike, and he does not take a single measure in defense of the workers.",3049.92,3072.64,{"idx":3108,"utterance_id":3109,"speaker_name":176,"text":3110,"start_s":3111,"end_s":3112,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},493,"211652","And this, just a minute, is a policy that has been adopted for more than a year against the Brazilian working class.",3073.6,3082.94,{"idx":3114,"utterance_id":3115,"speaker_name":176,"text":3116,"start_s":3117,"end_s":3118,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},494,"211653","That is, lies upon lies told on television, sometimes without allowing the union leader a chance to explain what is happening.",3083.48,3092.48,{"idx":3120,"utterance_id":3121,"speaker_name":176,"text":3122,"start_s":3123,"end_s":3124,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},495,"211654","If we take the Lemos case, Boris, I will cite the Lemos case because it is the greatest attack.",3093.28,3098.34,{"idx":3126,"utterance_id":3127,"speaker_name":176,"text":3128,"start_s":3129,"end_s":3130,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},496,"211655","that happened in this country after what they did to the Partidão in 1946.",3098.8,3101.96,{"idx":3132,"utterance_id":3133,"speaker_name":176,"text":3134,"start_s":3135,"end_s":3136,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},497,"211656","The Leme case.",3101.98,3106.38,{"idx":3138,"utterance_id":3139,"speaker_name":176,"text":3140,"start_s":3141,"end_s":3142,"word_count":600,"indexable":180},498,"211657","Well, after the President of the Republic, Minister of Justice, State Governor, Secretary of Public Security, Minister of Labor and Chief of the Civil Cabinet denounced that PT deputies had killed two workers in Leme, 200 people were heard in the police inquiry, and all of them... all the evidence cleared that the shot did not come from a car, nothing like that; it was the police themselves who killed.",3107,3136.22,{"idx":3144,"utterance_id":3145,"speaker_name":176,"text":3146,"start_s":3147,"end_s":3148,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},499,"211658","And not a word is spoken about it anymore.",3136.9,3139.7,{"idx":3150,"utterance_id":3151,"speaker_name":176,"text":3152,"start_s":3153,"end_s":3154,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},500,"211659","In other words, the attack made the headlines and the defense did not receive prominence.",3140.42,3145.4,{"idx":3156,"utterance_id":3157,"speaker_name":176,"text":3158,"start_s":3159,"end_s":3160,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},501,"211660","Lula, I wanted to point out a fact.",3145.44,3147.82,{"idx":3162,"utterance_id":3163,"speaker_name":176,"text":3164,"start_s":3165,"end_s":3166,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},502,"211661","Right after the events in Leme, I had the opportunity to write an article in Folha de São Paulo, which I don't know if you read.",3149,3154.74,{"idx":3168,"utterance_id":3169,"speaker_name":176,"text":3170,"start_s":3171,"end_s":3172,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},503,"211662","where I described exactly that situation.",3155.22,3156.96,{"idx":3174,"utterance_id":3175,"speaker_name":176,"text":3176,"start_s":3177,"end_s":3178,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},504,"211663","The newspaper presented exactly that situation.",3157.3,3159.1,{"idx":3180,"utterance_id":3181,"speaker_name":176,"text":3182,"start_s":3183,"end_s":3184,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},505,"211664","This journalist of yours presented that situation.",3159.16,3161.88,{"idx":3186,"utterance_id":3187,"speaker_name":176,"text":3188,"start_s":3189,"end_s":3190,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},506,"211665","Other people raised it.",3163.52,3164.32,{"idx":3192,"utterance_id":3193,"speaker_name":176,"text":3194,"start_s":3195,"end_s":3196,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},507,"211666","But I think that I was the one who raised it.",3164.38,3166.66,{"idx":3198,"utterance_id":3199,"speaker_name":176,"text":3200,"start_s":3201,"end_s":3202,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},508,"211667","I think that the PT should not have been tried.",3166.68,3168.58,{"idx":3204,"utterance_id":3205,"speaker_name":176,"text":3206,"start_s":3207,"end_s":3208,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},509,"211668","I think it was a political maneuver against the PT.",3168.62,3170.7,{"idx":3210,"utterance_id":3211,"speaker_name":176,"text":3212,"start_s":3213,"end_s":3214,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},510,"211669","An electoral maneuver.",3170.72,3171.8,{"idx":3216,"utterance_id":3217,"speaker_name":176,"text":3218,"start_s":3219,"end_s":3220,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},511,"211670","An electoral maneuver that affected human lives.",3171.82,3174.82,{"idx":3222,"utterance_id":3223,"speaker_name":176,"text":3224,"start_s":3225,"end_s":3226,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},512,"211671","And let me tell you something.",3174.88,3176.32,{"idx":3228,"utterance_id":3229,"speaker_name":176,"text":3230,"start_s":3231,"end_s":3232,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},513,"211672","I watched on Monday after the elections Antônio Emílio de Moraes in an interview on Channel 13 with Hamilton.",3176.6,3182.98,{"idx":3234,"utterance_id":3235,"speaker_name":176,"text":3236,"start_s":3237,"end_s":3238,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},514,"211673","And Antônio Emílio de Moraes was asked if he had been invited on March 6 to go to Brasília to run in the elections to defeat Maluf.",3183.52,3192.56,{"idx":3240,"utterance_id":3241,"speaker_name":176,"text":3242,"start_s":3243,"end_s":3244,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},515,"211674","Antônio Emílio de Moraes, on a live program, therefore there was no falsification, because it was like we are here now.",3193.26,3198.4,{"idx":3246,"utterance_id":3247,"speaker_name":176,"text":3248,"start_s":3249,"end_s":3250,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},516,"211675","Antônio Emílio de Moraes said, no, I was invited by the President of the Republic not just to defeat Maluf, but to defeat Suplicy.",3198.96,3205.74,{"idx":3252,"utterance_id":3253,"speaker_name":176,"text":3254,"start_s":3255,"end_s":3256,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},517,"211676","Because at the time he was growing too much in public opinion polls.",3206.26,3210,{"idx":3258,"utterance_id":3259,"speaker_name":176,"text":3260,"start_s":3261,"end_s":3262,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},518,"211677","But look, Lula, I think that in this matter there were people who accused, people who defended.",3210.02,3216.42,{"idx":3264,"utterance_id":3265,"speaker_name":176,"text":3266,"start_s":3267,"end_s":3268,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},519,"211678","I think the correct position would have been to await the investigations.",3216.44,3219.86,{"idx":3270,"utterance_id":3271,"speaker_name":176,"text":3272,"start_s":3273,"end_s":3274,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},520,"211679","Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula,",3219.88,3223.8,{"idx":3276,"utterance_id":3277,"speaker_name":176,"text":3278,"start_s":3279,"end_s":3280,"word_count":459,"indexable":180},521,"211680","Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, Lula, you have the right of reply.",3223.82,3235.2,{"idx":3282,"utterance_id":3283,"speaker_name":176,"text":3284,"start_s":3285,"end_s":3286,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},522,"211681","This is a very democratic program.",3235.36,3236.52,{"idx":3288,"utterance_id":3289,"speaker_name":176,"text":3290,"start_s":3291,"end_s":3292,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},523,"211682","You have a question for after the break.",3236.54,3237.94,{"idx":3294,"utterance_id":3295,"speaker_name":176,"text":3296,"start_s":3297,"end_s":3298,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},524,"211683","We're going to break and will be right back.",3238.1,3240.28,{"idx":3300,"utterance_id":3301,"speaker_name":176,"text":3302,"start_s":3303,"end_s":3304,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},525,"211684","We return then with Roda Viva, tonight interviewing the president of the Workers' Party, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.",3284.2,3290.56,{"idx":3306,"utterance_id":3307,"speaker_name":176,"text":3308,"start_s":3309,"end_s":3310,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},526,"211685","And as I said before our short break, I promised Lula and Boris Casoy, from Folha de São Paulo, that they would continue that discussion.",3290.58,3298.08,{"idx":3312,"utterance_id":3313,"speaker_name":176,"text":3314,"start_s":3315,"end_s":3316,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},527,"211686","Please, Boris, you were speaking, I interrupted you, forgive me, but you have the floor again.",3298.16,3302.42,{"idx":3318,"utterance_id":3319,"speaker_name":176,"text":3320,"start_s":3321,"end_s":3322,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},528,"211687","I wanted to tell Lula the following: I think that in the Leme episode, PT is right and has always been right.",3302.44,3307.22,{"idx":3324,"utterance_id":3325,"speaker_name":176,"text":3326,"start_s":3327,"end_s":3328,"word_count":406,"indexable":180},529,"211688","There were absolutely unfounded accusations, devoid of any proof and, I believe, of a political nature against parliamentarians and members of PT who were at Leme at that moment and who became involuntarily involved in the incidents that occurred and that were tragic.",3307.52,3323,{"idx":3330,"utterance_id":3331,"speaker_name":176,"text":3332,"start_s":3333,"end_s":3334,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},530,"211689","But I think, Lula, that this cannot be compared to the case of destruction of Ford's equipment.",3323.44,3329.9,{"idx":3336,"utterance_id":3337,"speaker_name":176,"text":3338,"start_s":3339,"end_s":3340,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},531,"211690","I think that Operation Cambalacho really is an extremely dangerous thing.",3330,3334.28,{"idx":3342,"utterance_id":3343,"speaker_name":176,"text":3344,"start_s":3345,"end_s":3346,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},532,"211691","because it gives rise to labor problems here, sometimes which are really weapons used against the workers.",3334.72,3342.9,{"idx":3348,"utterance_id":3349,"speaker_name":176,"text":3350,"start_s":3351,"end_s":3352,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},533,"211692","They end up turning into violence.",3343.44,3345.88,{"idx":3354,"utterance_id":3355,"speaker_name":176,"text":3356,"start_s":3357,"end_s":3358,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},534,"211693","I think matters should be decided by the courts and by the authorities.",3345.9,3350.02,{"idx":3360,"utterance_id":3361,"speaker_name":176,"text":3362,"start_s":3363,"end_s":3364,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},535,"211694","When there is no action, we must fight for there to be.",3350.04,3352.58,{"idx":3366,"utterance_id":3367,"speaker_name":176,"text":3368,"start_s":3369,"end_s":3370,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},536,"211695","What I cannot admit is that things happen on the basis of violence.",3352.6,3355.56,{"idx":3372,"utterance_id":3373,"speaker_name":176,"text":3374,"start_s":3375,"end_s":3376,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},537,"211696","Neither Leme nor Ford.",3355.9,3357.32,{"idx":3378,"utterance_id":3379,"speaker_name":176,"text":3380,"start_s":3381,"end_s":3382,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},538,"211697","Boris, no one in this Brazil is more of a pacifist than I am, Boris.",3357.48,3361.9,{"idx":3384,"utterance_id":3385,"speaker_name":176,"text":3386,"start_s":3387,"end_s":3388,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},539,"211698","Not always.",3361.94,3362.72,{"idx":3390,"utterance_id":3391,"speaker_name":176,"text":3392,"start_s":3393,"end_s":3394,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},540,"211699","Boris, in 1980, Fernando de Moraes was there.",3362.74,3365.54,{"idx":3396,"utterance_id":3397,"speaker_name":176,"text":3398,"start_s":3399,"end_s":3400,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},541,"211700","I was imprisoned.",3366.24,3367.06,{"idx":3402,"utterance_id":3403,"speaker_name":176,"text":3404,"start_s":3405,"end_s":3406,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},542,"211701","Fernando de Moraes was there, Barelli was there, Ricardo Couto was there, Milton was there, who knows, there were many people.",3367.88,3372.42,{"idx":3408,"utterance_id":3409,"speaker_name":176,"text":3410,"start_s":3411,"end_s":3412,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},543,"211702","Gamberino was there covering, there were many people.",3372.62,3374.94,{"idx":3414,"utterance_id":3415,"speaker_name":176,"text":3416,"start_s":3417,"end_s":3418,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},544,"211703","It would take just a slogan there, you know, for a massacre to break out in that vicinity or in that square.",3375.34,3383.56,{"idx":3420,"utterance_id":3421,"speaker_name":176,"text":3422,"start_s":3423,"end_s":3424,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},545,"211704","And what was the concern of the union leaders at the time?",3383.58,3386.3,{"idx":3426,"utterance_id":3427,"speaker_name":176,"text":3428,"start_s":3429,"end_s":3430,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},546,"211705","And what is the concern of the union leaders now?",3386.32,3388.5,{"idx":3432,"utterance_id":3433,"speaker_name":176,"text":3434,"start_s":3435,"end_s":3436,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},547,"211706","It is always to try to moderate the workers, to keep them calm.",3391.3,3393.86,{"idx":3438,"utterance_id":3439,"speaker_name":176,"text":3440,"start_s":3441,"end_s":3442,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},548,"211707","Now, you, Boris, don't know what it is. Workers were harassed inside a factory when the company insists on carrying out a process of internal repression.",3394.34,3405.36,{"idx":3444,"utterance_id":3445,"speaker_name":176,"text":3446,"start_s":3447,"end_s":3448,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},549,"211708","Now, Lula, haven't the unions' posture also changed from that time to today?",3405.48,3410.18,{"idx":3450,"utterance_id":3451,"speaker_name":176,"text":3452,"start_s":3453,"end_s":3454,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},550,"211709","Because you became notable, Lula, for the secure way you introduced the labor movement at a time much more explosive and difficult than today.",3410.44,3418.76,{"idx":3456,"utterance_id":3457,"speaker_name":176,"text":3458,"start_s":3459,"end_s":3460,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},551,"211710","And without that kind of situation.",3418.86,3420,{"idx":3462,"utterance_id":3463,"speaker_name":176,"text":3464,"start_s":3465,"end_s":3466,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},552,"211711","When the army helicopters, among others, flew over the assemblies in Vila Euclides.",3420.28,3424.3,{"idx":3468,"utterance_id":3469,"speaker_name":176,"text":3470,"start_s":3471,"end_s":3472,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},553,"211712","And I remember having seen you several times reprimand your colleagues to ensure that the rights of others would never be infringed.",3424.74,3431.94,{"idx":3474,"utterance_id":3475,"speaker_name":176,"text":3476,"start_s":3477,"end_s":3478,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},554,"211713","So I ask if there wasn't a slight negligence on the part of PT in this area.",3432.42,3436.84,{"idx":3480,"utterance_id":3481,"speaker_name":176,"text":3482,"start_s":3483,"end_s":3484,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},555,"211714","No, look, first because my PT... Could it be that the aggressiveness grew a little too much?",3437.2,3441.3,{"idx":3486,"utterance_id":3487,"speaker_name":176,"text":3488,"start_s":3489,"end_s":3490,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},556,"211715","See, first because my PT that deals with strikes is the labor movement.",3441.32,3444.06,{"idx":3492,"utterance_id":3493,"speaker_name":176,"text":3494,"start_s":3495,"end_s":3496,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},557,"211716","Second, I think that today there are union leaders of the greatest seriousness, of the greatest responsibility, just as there were in my time.",3444.12,3450.74,{"idx":3498,"utterance_id":3499,"speaker_name":176,"text":3500,"start_s":3501,"end_s":3502,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},558,"211717","I think the leadership of Meneghel is something questionable today in this country.",3451.24,3456.4,{"idx":3504,"utterance_id":3505,"speaker_name":176,"text":3506,"start_s":3507,"end_s":3508,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},559,"211718","And I can assure you that I know, if not by name, at least from the point of view of facial features each of the comrades of Forte and they have always been comrades who had an exemplary behavior in struggle.",3456.9,3469.24,{"idx":3510,"utterance_id":3511,"speaker_name":176,"text":3512,"start_s":3513,"end_s":3514,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},560,"211719","Now, I can assure you that the saturation process has arrived.",3469.26,3473.58,{"idx":3516,"utterance_id":3517,"speaker_name":176,"text":3518,"start_s":3519,"end_s":3520,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},561,"211720","I was at the Ford gate about 15 days ago and I will possibly return there this week to talk with the workers.",3474.36,3479.14,{"idx":3522,"utterance_id":3523,"speaker_name":176,"text":3524,"start_s":3525,"end_s":3526,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},562,"211721","And if Ford doesn't change its treatment... You can be sure that worse things will happen.",3479.48,3484.18,{"idx":3528,"utterance_id":3529,"speaker_name":176,"text":3530,"start_s":3531,"end_s":3532,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},563,"211722","I am warning, see, I am warning and I told at the Ford gate to Diogo Clemente, who was Ford's director.",3484.5,3491.38,{"idx":3534,"utterance_id":3535,"speaker_name":176,"text":3536,"start_s":3537,"end_s":3538,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},564,"211723","I said, Diogo, watch out because what you are doing, you are treating heads of families as if you were dealing with criminals.",3491.4,3499.66,{"idx":3540,"utterance_id":3541,"speaker_name":176,"text":3542,"start_s":3543,"end_s":3544,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},565,"211724","You are dealing irresponsibly, ordering management to carry out a process of persecution against the workers.",3499.68,3506.06,{"idx":3546,"utterance_id":3547,"speaker_name":176,"text":3548,"start_s":3549,"end_s":3550,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},566,"211725","Now, Lula tells me the following, that is, with the increase now, of the several increases imposed by the government.",3506.12,3514.4,{"idx":3552,"utterance_id":3553,"speaker_name":176,"text":3554,"start_s":3555,"end_s":3556,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},567,"211726","The car gets a price increase of a hundred-odd percent, on top of the compulsory levy.",3515.22,3520.8,{"idx":3558,"utterance_id":3559,"speaker_name":176,"text":3560,"start_s":3561,"end_s":3562,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},568,"211727","Well, that will make the automotive industry suffer greatly, production will decrease, companies have already said so, production will fall, the auto parts sector will face unemployment.",3521.14,3532.96,{"idx":3564,"utterance_id":3565,"speaker_name":176,"text":3566,"start_s":3567,"end_s":3568,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},569,"211728","Couldn't that create a mood, now that saturation has been reached, making that relationship even worse?",3533.32,3538.72,{"idx":3570,"utterance_id":3571,"speaker_name":176,"text":3572,"start_s":3573,"end_s":3574,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},570,"211729","But look, I think unemployment is one of the things that causes the most harm to the working class.",3539.72,3544.62,{"idx":3576,"utterance_id":3577,"speaker_name":176,"text":3578,"start_s":3579,"end_s":3580,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},571,"211730","And I don't believe that because of this increase companies will sell less.",3545.44,3550.56,{"idx":3582,"utterance_id":3583,"speaker_name":176,"text":3584,"start_s":3585,"end_s":3586,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},572,"211731","Because some years ago the Brazilian automotive industry made a choice.",3551.26,3555.66,{"idx":3588,"utterance_id":3589,"speaker_name":176,"text":3590,"start_s":3591,"end_s":3592,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},573,"211732","It made a choice to, instead of producing the so-called popular cars, produce cars for those who have the money to buy.",3556.36,3562.42,{"idx":3594,"utterance_id":3595,"speaker_name":176,"text":3596,"start_s":3597,"end_s":3598,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},574,"211733","For example, I don't know if Lenildo will feel the effect of the increase when buying a car.",3563.52,3567.28,{"idx":3600,"utterance_id":3601,"speaker_name":176,"text":3602,"start_s":3603,"end_s":3604,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},575,"211734","I think he will still be able to keep buying a car, I don't know about Bori.",3567.86,3573.46,{"idx":3606,"utterance_id":3607,"speaker_name":176,"text":3608,"start_s":3609,"end_s":3610,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},576,"211735","It is a necessity.",3573.5,3574.36,{"idx":3612,"utterance_id":3613,"speaker_name":176,"text":3614,"start_s":3615,"end_s":3616,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},577,"211736","It's true, they made a choice to build cars for the upper middle class.",3574.62,3578.56,{"idx":3618,"utterance_id":3619,"speaker_name":176,"text":3620,"start_s":3621,"end_s":3622,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},578,"211737","Not even for the middle class who could buy a Volkswagen, could buy a Brasília to go to work, to use it as a work tool.",3579.2,3587.9,{"idx":3624,"utterance_id":3625,"speaker_name":176,"text":3626,"start_s":3627,"end_s":3628,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},579,"211738","Lula, what car do you have?",3588.52,3591.96,{"idx":3630,"utterance_id":3631,"speaker_name":176,"text":3632,"start_s":3633,"end_s":3634,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},580,"211739","Lula, please.",3592.06,3593.28,{"idx":3636,"utterance_id":3637,"speaker_name":176,"text":3638,"start_s":3639,"end_s":3640,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},581,"211740","I know you didn't ask.",3593.56,3606.16,{"idx":3642,"utterance_id":3643,"speaker_name":176,"text":3644,"start_s":3645,"end_s":3646,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},582,"211741","What is your car, Lenildo?",3606.4,3610.28,{"idx":3648,"utterance_id":3649,"speaker_name":176,"text":3650,"start_s":3651,"end_s":3652,"word_count":465,"indexable":180},583,"211742","My request to Lula, out of the affection I have for him, for him, out of the respect I have, although I disagree with 85% of what he proposes to do, is that he be very enlightened in seeking social peace, harmony between capital and labor.",3612,3635.34,{"idx":3654,"utterance_id":3655,"speaker_name":176,"text":3656,"start_s":3657,"end_s":3658,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},584,"211743","What he intends to do about this, or whether he intends to open a total war between capital and labor, which would be very sad for the whole nation.",3635.98,3645.08,{"idx":3660,"utterance_id":3661,"speaker_name":176,"text":3662,"start_s":3663,"end_s":3664,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},585,"211744","What I find funny is the look of...",3646.18,3648.78,{"idx":3666,"utterance_id":3667,"speaker_name":176,"text":3668,"start_s":3669,"end_s":3670,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},586,"211745","He said he has a lot of affection for you.",3648.8,3650.28,{"idx":3672,"utterance_id":3673,"speaker_name":176,"text":3674,"start_s":3675,"end_s":3676,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},587,"211746","See, because... How can Maira Mato want peace between capital and labor if we have in Brazil 60% of the working class earning less than two minimum wages?",3651.18,3660.18,{"idx":3678,"utterance_id":3679,"speaker_name":176,"text":3680,"start_s":3681,"end_s":3682,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},588,"211747","How is it possible for someone to want social peace between capital and labor when a thousand children die per day in this country?",3660.94,3667.62,{"idx":3684,"utterance_id":3685,"speaker_name":176,"text":3686,"start_s":3687,"end_s":3688,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},589,"211748","How is it possible for someone to speak of harmony between capital and labor?",3668.46,3673.18,{"idx":3690,"utterance_id":3691,"speaker_name":176,"text":3692,"start_s":3693,"end_s":3694,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},590,"211749","when we have 30,000 workers who become disabled for work due to poor working conditions and 1,200,000 work-related incidents per year.",3673.6,3682.1,{"idx":3696,"utterance_id":3697,"speaker_name":176,"text":3698,"start_s":3699,"end_s":3700,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},591,"211750","How can we imagine this peace if on the part of the business class there is no willingness to minimize the hunger that the Brazilian working class suffers today?",3682.84,3694.44,{"idx":3702,"utterance_id":3703,"speaker_name":176,"text":3704,"start_s":3705,"end_s":3706,"word_count":418,"indexable":180},592,"211751","I think, Maira Mato, that it is important for you, as president of the strongest Employers' Federation that exists in this country, to understand that the working class cannot continue to be victim of almost slave labor in our country.",3695.02,3710.34,{"idx":3708,"utterance_id":3709,"speaker_name":176,"text":3710,"start_s":3711,"end_s":3712,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},593,"211752","You need to have common sense, improve the workers' wages and you know it can improve.",3710.48,3716.68,{"idx":3714,"utterance_id":3715,"speaker_name":176,"text":3716,"start_s":3717,"end_s":3718,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},594,"211753","You use the government to say that you could give it, but the government does not allow it.",3717.2,3720.96,{"idx":3720,"utterance_id":3721,"speaker_name":176,"text":3722,"start_s":3723,"end_s":3724,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},595,"211754","And I think it is important that you become aware that the way things are... you will face many strikes.",3721.42,3728.62,{"idx":3726,"utterance_id":3727,"speaker_name":176,"text":3728,"start_s":3729,"end_s":3730,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},596,"211755","By the way, I would like to take the opportunity to tell Mário Amato something very serious.",3728.78,3732.18,{"idx":3732,"utterance_id":3733,"speaker_name":176,"text":3734,"start_s":3735,"end_s":3736,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},597,"211756","Many people during the campaign said that after the Cruzado Plan the strikes ended, that after the Cruzado Plan there were no more movement.",3732.54,3739.26,{"idx":3738,"utterance_id":3739,"speaker_name":176,"text":3740,"start_s":3741,"end_s":3742,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},598,"211757","There were, you know, the non-publication of the strikes.",3739.74,3743.16,{"idx":3744,"utterance_id":3745,"speaker_name":176,"text":3746,"start_s":3747,"end_s":3748,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},599,"211758","But I wanted to give a very interesting datum here.",3743.5,3745.58,{"idx":3750,"utterance_id":3751,"speaker_name":176,"text":3752,"start_s":3753,"end_s":3754,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},600,"211759","In 1985, we had 465 strikes.",3746.24,3755.12,{"idx":3756,"utterance_id":3757,"speaker_name":176,"text":3758,"start_s":3759,"end_s":3760,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},601,"211760","Before the Cruzado Plan.",3755.78,3756.76,{"idx":3762,"utterance_id":3763,"speaker_name":176,"text":3764,"start_s":3765,"end_s":3766,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},602,"211761","In 1986, after the Cruzado Plan, we had 986 strikes.",3756.8,3762.58,{"idx":3768,"utterance_id":3769,"speaker_name":176,"text":3770,"start_s":3771,"end_s":3772,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},603,"211762","Simply twice as many strikes happened after the Cruzado Plan.",3762.96,3766.6,{"idx":3774,"utterance_id":3775,"speaker_name":176,"text":3776,"start_s":3777,"end_s":3778,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},604,"211763","So does a new law on strikes solve it?",3766.86,3768.96,{"idx":3780,"utterance_id":3781,"speaker_name":176,"text":3782,"start_s":3783,"end_s":3784,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},605,"211764","A new law on strikes, like the one that's... No — does a strike law resolve it?",3769.44,3773.02,{"idx":3786,"utterance_id":3787,"speaker_name":176,"text":3788,"start_s":3789,"end_s":3790,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},606,"211765","Or is it better to have no law?",3773.2,3775.14,{"idx":3792,"utterance_id":3793,"speaker_name":176,"text":3794,"start_s":3795,"end_s":3796,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},607,"211766","No, it is necessary to guarantee the worker the right to strike.",3775.16,3779.08,{"idx":3798,"utterance_id":3799,"speaker_name":176,"text":3800,"start_s":3801,"end_s":3802,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},608,"211767","So there is no need for a law.",3779.1,3780.36,{"idx":3804,"utterance_id":3805,"speaker_name":176,"text":3806,"start_s":3807,"end_s":3808,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},609,"211768","Regulation, I don't think so.",3780.48,3782.1,{"idx":3810,"utterance_id":3811,"speaker_name":176,"text":3812,"start_s":3813,"end_s":3814,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},610,"211769","I argue that there should be no law.",3782.64,3783.58,{"idx":3816,"utterance_id":3817,"speaker_name":176,"text":3818,"start_s":3819,"end_s":3820,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},611,"211770","Regulation is the balance of power between capital and labor.",3783.6,3787.16,{"idx":3822,"utterance_id":3823,"speaker_name":176,"text":3824,"start_s":3825,"end_s":3826,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},612,"211771","Now, what needs to be ensured is that no worker should be punished for having gone on strike.",3787.82,3794.58,{"idx":3828,"utterance_id":3829,"speaker_name":176,"text":3830,"start_s":3831,"end_s":3832,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},613,"211772","That means it's better not to have a strike law than to debate the one that would be...",3796.2,3800.98,{"idx":3834,"utterance_id":3835,"speaker_name":176,"text":3836,"start_s":3837,"end_s":3838,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},614,"211773","I think it's nonsense to want to regulate, article by article, a collective struggle.",3801.28,3806.18,{"idx":3840,"utterance_id":3841,"speaker_name":176,"text":3842,"start_s":3843,"end_s":3844,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},615,"211774","I think it's important to have just one constitutional article that guarantees the following: the right to strike is guaranteed to Brazilian workers; semicolon.",3806.88,3814.82,{"idx":3846,"utterance_id":3847,"speaker_name":176,"text":3848,"start_s":3849,"end_s":3850,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},616,"211775","Lula.",3815.64,3815.84,{"idx":3852,"utterance_id":3853,"speaker_name":176,"text":3854,"start_s":3855,"end_s":3856,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},617,"211776","I'd like to return to the Constitution.",3816.1,3817.52,{"idx":3858,"utterance_id":3859,"speaker_name":176,"text":3860,"start_s":3861,"end_s":3862,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},618,"211777","You said that the majority of the Constituent Assembly will be conservative; that's more than clear.",3818.06,3823.66,{"idx":3864,"utterance_id":3865,"speaker_name":176,"text":3866,"start_s":3867,"end_s":3868,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},619,"211778","And that the way in which, let's say, the minority that defends popular interests, committed to the advancement of democracy and such, will confront this conservative majority is through popular pressure.",3824.64,3836.18,{"idx":3870,"utterance_id":3871,"speaker_name":176,"text":3872,"start_s":3873,"end_s":3874,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},620,"211779","First I ask: how effective do you believe popular pressure can be?",3836.2,3843.06,{"idx":3876,"utterance_id":3877,"speaker_name":176,"text":3878,"start_s":3879,"end_s":3880,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},621,"211780","Since we have the example of the Diretas, where there was the largest movement in this country and Congress ended up not approving direct elections for president.",3843.68,3853.28,{"idx":3882,"utterance_id":3883,"speaker_name":176,"text":3884,"start_s":3885,"end_s":3886,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},622,"211781","And how will that popular pressure be exerted?",3853.84,3856.28,{"idx":3888,"utterance_id":3889,"speaker_name":176,"text":3890,"start_s":3891,"end_s":3892,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},623,"211782","What is the way to ensure that the population can actually have influence in the Constituent Assembly?",3856.42,3862.86,{"idx":3894,"utterance_id":3895,"speaker_name":176,"text":3896,"start_s":3897,"end_s":3898,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},624,"211783","A second question... That is, what are your main points as a federal deputy, a constituent, to present in the drafting of the new Constitution?",3863,3873.72,{"idx":64,"utterance_id":3900,"speaker_name":176,"text":3901,"start_s":3902,"end_s":3903,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},"211784","May I add a question to Hamilton's, which is the following.",3874.22,3878.48,{"idx":3905,"utterance_id":3906,"speaker_name":176,"text":3907,"start_s":3908,"end_s":3909,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},626,"211785","You stated a few days ago in an interview that you hoped that a progressive bloc composed of representatives from various parties could be formed in the Constituent Assembly.",3879.2,3890.6,{"idx":3911,"utterance_id":3912,"speaker_name":176,"text":3913,"start_s":3914,"end_s":3915,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},627,"211786","On the day you gave that interview... It wasn't yet so clear that here in São Paulo, for example, the left sectors of the PMDB — very few — ended up being elected to the Constituent Assembly.",3891.36,3905.22,{"idx":3917,"utterance_id":3918,"speaker_name":176,"text":3919,"start_s":3920,"end_s":3921,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},628,"211787","I've just learned that it was the same in other states.",3905.74,3908.1,{"idx":3923,"utterance_id":3924,"speaker_name":176,"text":3925,"start_s":3926,"end_s":3927,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},629,"211788","In Minas Gerais, Macadam crushed the more progressive sector of the PMDB.",3908.12,3916.48,{"idx":3929,"utterance_id":3930,"speaker_name":176,"text":3931,"start_s":3932,"end_s":3933,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},630,"211789","Do you still expect that a progressive bloc can be formed?",3917.06,3921.82,{"idx":3935,"utterance_id":3936,"speaker_name":176,"text":3937,"start_s":3938,"end_s":3939,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},631,"211790","in the Constituent Assembly to act as a point of progress in these struggles, even after learning that the number will be even smaller than you expected five days ago?",3922.3,3934.24,{"idx":3941,"utterance_id":3942,"speaker_name":176,"text":3943,"start_s":3944,"end_s":3945,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},632,"211791","Don't start answering yet, I want to add the following along the same lines.",3934.26,3937.28,{"idx":3947,"utterance_id":3948,"speaker_name":176,"text":3949,"start_s":3950,"end_s":3951,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},633,"211792","Two and a half years of the new republic and there has been no change in labor legislation.",3937.86,3943.08,{"idx":3953,"utterance_id":3954,"speaker_name":176,"text":3955,"start_s":3956,"end_s":3957,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},634,"211793","Many promises, a rather unclear text from Minister Pazianotto regarding the regulation.",3943.78,3950.4,{"idx":3959,"utterance_id":3960,"speaker_name":176,"text":3961,"start_s":3962,"end_s":3963,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},635,"211794","Regarding strikes, the idea did not prosper.",3950.84,3952.46,{"idx":3965,"utterance_id":3966,"speaker_name":176,"text":3967,"start_s":3968,"end_s":3969,"word_count":436,"indexable":180},636,"211795","Several points that greatly interest the Brazilian working class, such as, for example, the ratification of ILO Convention 87, which would lead to trade union pluralism and, eventually — not necessarily — to the elimination of the umbilical tie that exists between the unions and the State.",3954.12,3975.18,{"idx":3971,"utterance_id":3972,"speaker_name":176,"text":3973,"start_s":3974,"end_s":3975,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},637,"211796","And none of that changed.",3976.18,3977.04,{"idx":3977,"utterance_id":3978,"speaker_name":176,"text":3979,"start_s":3980,"end_s":3981,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},638,"211797","PT (Workers' Party) is managing to elect a much stronger bench; it has a greater possibility of forging alliances that promote changes in its interest.",3978.12,3988.96,{"idx":3983,"utterance_id":3984,"speaker_name":176,"text":3985,"start_s":3986,"end_s":3987,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},639,"211798","Do you think that from this new legislature there are conditions to alter this situation, to modify the authoritarian remnants that harm workers' interests in the view of the labor movement?",3989.48,4004.14,{"idx":3989,"utterance_id":3990,"speaker_name":176,"text":3991,"start_s":3992,"end_s":3993,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},640,"211799","I don't know if I will be able to answer all the questions.",4005.1,4008.34,{"idx":3995,"utterance_id":3996,"speaker_name":176,"text":3997,"start_s":3998,"end_s":3999,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},641,"211800","If I miss any, the comrades can ask me again.",4010.6,4014.46,{"idx":4001,"utterance_id":4002,"speaker_name":176,"text":4003,"start_s":4004,"end_s":4005,"word_count":406,"indexable":180},642,"211801","First, Hamilton, when I tried to raise the idea of televising the National Congress, it was because I understood it was a way to involve a significant portion of society in the daily debates that will take place in the National Congress.",4014.6,4030.78,{"idx":4007,"utterance_id":4008,"speaker_name":176,"text":4009,"start_s":4010,"end_s":4011,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},643,"211802","The segment of society that watches this will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, to see who was making promises before the 15th and who is courting them on the 16th.",4032.52,4040.82,{"idx":4013,"utterance_id":4014,"speaker_name":176,"text":4015,"start_s":4016,"end_s":4017,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},644,"211803","That would be a factor in creating mobilization.",4041.82,4045.2,{"idx":4019,"utterance_id":4020,"speaker_name":176,"text":4021,"start_s":4022,"end_s":4023,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},645,"211804","Another factor in creating mobilization is you",4045.9,4048.24,{"idx":4025,"utterance_id":4026,"speaker_name":176,"text":4027,"start_s":4028,"end_s":4029,"word_count":696,"indexable":180},646,"211805","at the level of PT (Workers' Party) and at the level of other political forces, which I believe should do so, at the level of the labor movement, at the level of the church, at the level of civil society organizations, to follow the debates weekly and bring those debates to their organizations, bring this debate to neighborhood groups, bring this debate to the popular movement, to grassroots communities, bring this debate to the churches — that is, make Brazilian society debate, if not daily, at least weekly.",4049.6,4076,{"idx":4031,"utterance_id":4032,"speaker_name":176,"text":4033,"start_s":4034,"end_s":4035,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},647,"211806","what happened in Brasília, what was approved, what was not approved.",4076.52,4080.68,{"idx":4037,"utterance_id":4038,"speaker_name":176,"text":4039,"start_s":4040,"end_s":4041,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},648,"211807","It's another way to mobilize.",4081.12,4082.6,{"idx":4043,"utterance_id":4044,"speaker_name":176,"text":4045,"start_s":4046,"end_s":4047,"word_count":505,"indexable":180},649,"211808","And at the most crucial moments, try to carry out a mobilization process, hoping that President José Sarney won't have a Newton Cruz to put with his horse at the gate of the National Congress; you can fill that place with people and put pressure on the deputy and try to convince Ulisses Guimarães not to reduce",4082.94,4100.9,{"idx":4049,"utterance_id":4050,"speaker_name":176,"text":4051,"start_s":4052,"end_s":4053,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},650,"211809","the space for the people there, which was already small, which was already small.",4101.3,4105,{"idx":4055,"utterance_id":4056,"speaker_name":176,"text":4057,"start_s":4058,"end_s":4059,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},651,"211810","Look, I always say the following: we mustn't cheapen the issue of a general strike by using the word casually.",4105.54,4113.22,{"idx":4061,"utterance_id":4062,"speaker_name":176,"text":4063,"start_s":4064,"end_s":4065,"word_count":322,"indexable":180},652,"211811","A general strike is the consequence of work, even in the medium term; it's the result of work in which you... need to greatly motivate the working class, and it would be naïve for a union leader or any political scientist to dismiss the possibility of a general strike at any moment in a country.",4113.24,4133.96,{"idx":4067,"utterance_id":4068,"speaker_name":176,"text":4069,"start_s":4070,"end_s":4071,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},653,"211812","Today that possibility exists more strongly than...",4134.12,4137.04,{"idx":4073,"utterance_id":4074,"speaker_name":176,"text":4075,"start_s":4076,"end_s":4077,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},654,"211813","I don't know if the conditions would exist.",4137.34,4139.62,{"idx":4079,"utterance_id":4080,"speaker_name":176,"text":4081,"start_s":4082,"end_s":4083,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},655,"211814","I think the labor movement is preparing for what?",4139.66,4141.86,{"idx":4085,"utterance_id":4086,"speaker_name":176,"text":4087,"start_s":4088,"end_s":4089,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},656,"211815","It is preparing, starting tomorrow, to begin an information campaign for the people about what an economic package is.",4142.38,4148.22,{"idx":4091,"utterance_id":4092,"speaker_name":176,"text":4093,"start_s":4094,"end_s":4095,"word_count":447,"indexable":180},657,"211816","If each union does that, I think that after an assessment, after convening the Assembly... I remember when we led the first strike in '78, I remember that when we called an Assembly to analyze... wage readjustment, nobody believed there could be a strike.",4148.26,4165.46,{"idx":4097,"utterance_id":4098,"speaker_name":176,"text":4099,"start_s":4100,"end_s":4101,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},658,"211817","No one ever imagined that on May 12, 1978 a strike could happen.",4165.88,4170.68,{"idx":4103,"utterance_id":4104,"speaker_name":176,"text":4105,"start_s":4106,"end_s":4107,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},659,"211818","I mean, a process of strikes would erupt in Brazil, with practically all the states going on strike.",4170.7,4175.44,{"idx":4109,"utterance_id":4110,"speaker_name":176,"text":4111,"start_s":4112,"end_s":4113,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},660,"211819","So I think this is a mobilization process.",4175.46,4177.92,{"idx":4115,"utterance_id":4116,"speaker_name":176,"text":4117,"start_s":4118,"end_s":4119,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},661,"211820","If we have this capacity... to popularize the Constituent Assembly's ideas, we can have at least some participation from society.",4179.98,4192.1,{"idx":4121,"utterance_id":4122,"speaker_name":176,"text":4123,"start_s":4124,"end_s":4125,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},662,"211821","The second thing I raised was the question of a popular referendum, which isn't even something approved by PT (Workers' Party); it's an idea that came from comrade Djalma de Sousa Bom.",4192.5,4201,{"idx":4127,"utterance_id":4128,"speaker_name":176,"text":4129,"start_s":4130,"end_s":4131,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},663,"211822","That after the Constitution is drafted, before it is voted on, conditions should be created — I don't know what kind of referendum — but to have Brazilian society participate.",4201.56,4214.5,{"idx":4133,"utterance_id":4134,"speaker_name":176,"text":4135,"start_s":4136,"end_s":4137,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},664,"211823","Of that debate, to see whether to approve the Constituent Assembly or not, or chapter by chapter; given the media conditions at the time, it's easy to determine how to inform",4215.14,4226.2,{"idx":4139,"utterance_id":4140,"speaker_name":176,"text":4141,"start_s":4142,"end_s":4143,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},665,"211824","public opinion so it knows about the things that are being approved.",4226.56,4229.52,{"idx":4145,"utterance_id":4146,"speaker_name":176,"text":4147,"start_s":4148,"end_s":4149,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},666,"211825","These are the things being discussed and which I think we can popularize and mobilize many people to participate in.",4229.88,4236.24,{"idx":4151,"utterance_id":4152,"speaker_name":176,"text":4153,"start_s":4154,"end_s":4155,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},667,"211826","There's another thing, Amito, which is the following: what are the basic points we will bring?",4236.78,4240.9,{"idx":4157,"utterance_id":4158,"speaker_name":176,"text":4159,"start_s":4160,"end_s":4161,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},668,"211827","You know perfectly well that we have some things that we understand are almost a sine qua non condition of our participation in the Constituent Assembly, which is the issue of guaranteeing, you know?",4241.52,4254.58,{"idx":4163,"utterance_id":4164,"speaker_name":176,"text":4165,"start_s":4166,"end_s":4167,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},669,"211828","employment for the worker, that is, the famous and much-dreamed job stability.",4255.1,4260.9,{"idx":4169,"utterance_id":4170,"speaker_name":176,"text":4171,"start_s":4172,"end_s":4173,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},670,"211829","It's to seriously discuss the issue of land reform in this country.",4261.44,4265.9,{"idx":61,"utterance_id":4175,"speaker_name":176,"text":4176,"start_s":4177,"end_s":4178,"word_count":377,"indexable":180},"211830","It's to discuss the issue of an education reform that allows study to not be a privilege but a right inherent to every citizen, regardless of their social origin.",4266.46,4277.54,{"idx":4180,"utterance_id":4181,"speaker_name":176,"text":4182,"start_s":4183,"end_s":4184,"word_count":447,"indexable":180},672,"211831","And the other point we'll bring up is the question of... reducing working hours, the question of setting the minimum and maximum that someone can work in this country; we still have people working 50 to 60 hours.",4278.5,4294.14,{"idx":4186,"utterance_id":4187,"speaker_name":176,"text":4188,"start_s":4189,"end_s":4190,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},673,"211832","And I think the issue we have to guarantee is another very serious matter in this country, which involves 14.5 million Brazilians: the issue of retirees.",4294.88,4305,{"idx":4192,"utterance_id":4193,"speaker_name":176,"text":4194,"start_s":4195,"end_s":4196,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},674,"211833","We can no longer allow retirees to suffer what they are suffering today, earning, after five years retired, half of what they earned at the company.",4305.16,4314.46,{"idx":4198,"utterance_id":4199,"speaker_name":176,"text":4200,"start_s":4201,"end_s":4202,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},675,"211834","As if that weren't enough, one thing we need to guarantee in the Constitution, and leave no doubt for regulation, is free collective bargaining between the parties, with the right to strike by the working class being restricted.",4314.92,4326.68,{"idx":4204,"utterance_id":4205,"speaker_name":176,"text":4206,"start_s":4207,"end_s":4208,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},676,"211835","by the working class.",4327.12,4328.36,{"idx":4210,"utterance_id":4211,"speaker_name":176,"text":4212,"start_s":4213,"end_s":4214,"word_count":418,"indexable":180},677,"211836","I think we will take these points, and we believe there will be many people from other political parties, mainly connected to the PMDB and to the PDT, who will join this struggle with us.",4328.8,4340.4,{"idx":4216,"utterance_id":4217,"speaker_name":176,"text":4218,"start_s":4219,"end_s":4220,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},678,"211837","Regarding Fernando's question, I mean, I think, Fernando, that if we... get to 8 or 9, find 5 or 6 more, we're already 13, we're already a step forward.",4342.72,4352.24,{"idx":4222,"utterance_id":4223,"speaker_name":176,"text":4224,"start_s":4225,"end_s":4226,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},679,"211838","If we reach 20, find another 20, we're already 40.",4352.28,4354.78,{"idx":4228,"utterance_id":4229,"speaker_name":176,"text":4230,"start_s":4231,"end_s":4232,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},680,"211839","I think we will try to talk to all the people whom we perceive to have at least a minimum commitment to improving the quality of life of the Brazilian people.",4355.18,4363.54,{"idx":4234,"utterance_id":4235,"speaker_name":176,"text":4236,"start_s":4237,"end_s":4238,"word_count":377,"indexable":180},681,"211840","And to do it with the voice... Look, I think that beforehand we can consider the PDS out because it governed this country for 20 years and never did anything.",4363.96,4375.14,{"idx":4240,"utterance_id":4241,"speaker_name":176,"text":4242,"start_s":4243,"end_s":4244,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},682,"211841","I think... And then the proposals will be on the table; anyone who wants to come and is willing to vote.",4375.2,4381.14,{"idx":4246,"utterance_id":4247,"speaker_name":176,"text":4248,"start_s":4249,"end_s":4250,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},683,"211842","Because when we ran the campaign for Diretas, we didn't choose who would vote against or for.",4381.44,4386.34,{"idx":55,"utterance_id":4252,"speaker_name":176,"text":4253,"start_s":4254,"end_s":4255,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},"211843","The vote was asked by the president: who is in favor or who is against.",4386.4,4389.86,{"idx":4257,"utterance_id":4258,"speaker_name":176,"text":4259,"start_s":4260,"end_s":4261,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},685,"211844","And for us, everyone who voted in favor would be thanked.",4390.26,4393.92,{"idx":4263,"utterance_id":4264,"speaker_name":176,"text":4265,"start_s":4266,"end_s":4267,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},686,"211845","Unfortunately, they did not vote in favor.",4393.94,4395.2,{"idx":4269,"utterance_id":4270,"speaker_name":176,"text":4271,"start_s":4272,"end_s":4273,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},687,"211846","Only the PDS, Marinho's PSL, PTB, which is now Belém.",4395.22,4399.16,{"idx":4275,"utterance_id":4276,"speaker_name":176,"text":4277,"start_s":4278,"end_s":4279,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},688,"211847","I think it will depend on the behavior of the people over there.",4399.18,4401.5,{"idx":4281,"utterance_id":4282,"speaker_name":176,"text":4283,"start_s":4284,"end_s":4285,"word_count":430,"indexable":180},689,"211848","I remember that when the group was created... the PDS group, the first PDS group that started the campaign for direct elections, there was much resistance within the PMDB itself and the PT to participating alongside them.",4402.24,4415.3,{"idx":4287,"utterance_id":4288,"speaker_name":176,"text":4289,"start_s":4290,"end_s":4291,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},690,"211849","And suddenly they had extraordinary participation in the process of calling the struggle for the Diretas.",4415.6,4420.44,{"idx":4293,"utterance_id":4294,"speaker_name":176,"text":4295,"start_s":4296,"end_s":4297,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},691,"211850","With regard to the maintenance of the remnants of labor legislation, this is perpetual; it benefits...",4421.64,4429.14,{"idx":4299,"utterance_id":4300,"speaker_name":176,"text":4301,"start_s":4302,"end_s":4303,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},692,"211851","all the governments that have been in Brazil since '43.",4429.62,4432.7,{"idx":4305,"utterance_id":4306,"speaker_name":176,"text":4307,"start_s":4308,"end_s":4309,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},693,"211852","In other words, the union structure established by Getúlio Vargas is so \"perfect\" that it suits many people in this country, in that it gives no space of freedom to the working class.",4433.24,4446.06,{"idx":4311,"utterance_id":4312,"speaker_name":176,"text":4313,"start_s":4314,"end_s":4315,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},694,"211853","It's as if it were a chain...",4446.64,4448.28,{"idx":4317,"utterance_id":4318,"speaker_name":176,"text":4319,"start_s":4320,"end_s":4321,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},695,"211854","Are there factions in the labor movement?",4449.6,4451.76,{"idx":4323,"utterance_id":4324,"speaker_name":176,"text":4325,"start_s":4326,"end_s":4327,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},696,"211855","The CGT, for example, does not want that freedom.",4452.18,4454.7,{"idx":4329,"utterance_id":4330,"speaker_name":176,"text":4331,"start_s":4332,"end_s":4333,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},697,"211856","And then, look, there is a desire for it.",4454.72,4456.08,{"idx":4335,"utterance_id":4336,"speaker_name":176,"text":4337,"start_s":4338,"end_s":4339,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},698,"211857","I think there's a historical mistake, that only debate will allow them to make progress on this.",4456.2,4461.54,{"idx":4341,"utterance_id":4342,"speaker_name":176,"text":4343,"start_s":4344,"end_s":4345,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},699,"211858","To say that ILO Convention 87 will implant trade union pluralism in the country",4461.56,4466.06,{"idx":4347,"utterance_id":4348,"speaker_name":176,"text":4349,"start_s":4350,"end_s":4351,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},700,"211859","is a fallacy and an unfounded lie.",4466.44,4469.06,{"idx":4353,"utterance_id":4354,"speaker_name":176,"text":4355,"start_s":4356,"end_s":4357,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},701,"211860","Because the approval of ILO Convention No. 87 will guarantee total freedom for the organization of the trade union movement.",4469.54,4477.48,{"idx":4359,"utterance_id":4360,"speaker_name":176,"text":4361,"start_s":4362,"end_s":4363,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},702,"211861","Look, my God, can't I want freedom?",4478,4480.64,{"idx":4365,"utterance_id":4366,"speaker_name":176,"text":4367,"start_s":4368,"end_s":4369,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},703,"211862","and at the same time impose an article.",4481.18,4482.74,{"idx":4371,"utterance_id":4372,"speaker_name":176,"text":4373,"start_s":4374,"end_s":4375,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},704,"211863","You have the freedom to organize, but only if it's like that.",4483.2,4485.38,{"idx":4377,"utterance_id":4378,"speaker_name":176,"text":4379,"start_s":4380,"end_s":4381,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},705,"211864","No, I want real freedom.",4485.6,4487.58,{"idx":4383,"utterance_id":4384,"speaker_name":176,"text":4385,"start_s":4386,"end_s":4387,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},706,"211865","And I believe the trade union movement must have that freedom in order to organize itself.",4488.06,4492.44,{"idx":4389,"utterance_id":4390,"speaker_name":176,"text":4391,"start_s":4392,"end_s":4393,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},707,"211866","But will the CUT-aligned unions survive without the union tax?",4492.5,4495.88,{"idx":4395,"utterance_id":4396,"speaker_name":176,"text":4397,"start_s":4398,"end_s":4399,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},708,"211867","Look, I think not only the CUT-aligned unions; I think the Brazilian trade union movement needs to learn",4496.24,4503,{"idx":4401,"utterance_id":4402,"speaker_name":176,"text":4403,"start_s":4404,"end_s":4405,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},709,"211868","to survive without the union tax.",4503.46,4505.06,{"idx":4407,"utterance_id":4408,"speaker_name":176,"text":4409,"start_s":4410,"end_s":4411,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},710,"211869","It is necessary to create alternative forms of fundraising among the working class itself.",4505.52,4510.42,{"idx":4413,"utterance_id":4414,"speaker_name":176,"text":4415,"start_s":4416,"end_s":4417,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},711,"211870","Nothing could be fairer.",4510.96,4511.9,{"idx":4419,"utterance_id":4420,"speaker_name":176,"text":4421,"start_s":4422,"end_s":4423,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},712,"211871","If you did not have the union tax today.",4511.98,4513.88,{"idx":4425,"utterance_id":4426,"speaker_name":176,"text":4427,"start_s":4428,"end_s":4429,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},713,"211872","I'm certain that union leaders would all be at the factory gates organizing workers so that the worker could pay the membership fee.",4514.5,4520.14,{"idx":4431,"utterance_id":4432,"speaker_name":176,"text":4433,"start_s":4434,"end_s":4435,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},714,"211873","Today, a large part of the union movement has no interest in unionizing.",4520.54,4524.34,{"idx":4437,"utterance_id":4438,"speaker_name":176,"text":4439,"start_s":4440,"end_s":4441,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},715,"211874","because the unionized worker comes to be seen by some union leaders as a liability to the extent that he will make use of the union's departments.",4524.74,4530.94,{"idx":4443,"utterance_id":4444,"speaker_name":176,"text":4445,"start_s":4446,"end_s":4447,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},716,"211875","But Lula, forgive my comment.",4530.96,4533.12,{"idx":4449,"utterance_id":4450,"speaker_name":176,"text":4451,"start_s":4452,"end_s":4453,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},717,"211876","One union, an almost unique case—at least the best known—the metalworkers' union of Osasco, was once with CUT, but no longer is.",4533.32,4540.12,{"idx":4455,"utterance_id":4456,"speaker_name":176,"text":4457,"start_s":4458,"end_s":4459,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},718,"211877","It was the only one that has so far achieved financial independence in practice, that is, it started to return the contribution.",4540.76,4548.1,{"idx":4461,"utterance_id":4462,"speaker_name":176,"text":4463,"start_s":4464,"end_s":4465,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},719,"211878","to the government and ran a membership campaign that ensured its maintenance.",4548.54,4553.22,{"idx":4467,"utterance_id":4468,"speaker_name":176,"text":4469,"start_s":4470,"end_s":4471,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},720,"211879","There has been no such movement in CUT-aligned unions.",4553.76,4557.28,{"idx":4473,"utterance_id":4474,"speaker_name":176,"text":4475,"start_s":4476,"end_s":4477,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},721,"211880","It seems contradictory; that independence should already have been pursued.",4557.64,4561.32,{"idx":4479,"utterance_id":4480,"speaker_name":176,"text":4481,"start_s":4482,"end_s":4483,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},722,"211881","Look, I personally know that there were cases.",4561.86,4565.86,{"idx":4485,"utterance_id":4486,"speaker_name":176,"text":4487,"start_s":4488,"end_s":4489,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},723,"211882","The Santo André union was the one that returned the union tax.",4565.92,4569.12,{"idx":4491,"utterance_id":4492,"speaker_name":176,"text":4493,"start_s":4494,"end_s":4495,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},724,"211883","Forgive me, that's another case.",4569.14,4570.02,{"idx":4497,"utterance_id":4498,"speaker_name":176,"text":4499,"start_s":4500,"end_s":4501,"word_count":339,"indexable":180},725,"211884","And I used to tell the comrades from the Santo André union, and if I had had the opportunity to talk with Tófio, I would have said... that the struggle was to end the union tax once and for all at the national level.",4570.04,4580.32,{"idx":4503,"utterance_id":4504,"speaker_name":176,"text":4505,"start_s":4506,"end_s":4507,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},726,"211885","And that the money sitting in the union's coffers today should be applied, you know, to structuring—setting up a socioeconomic department within the union, equipping the union to face the employers' machine, which is very well organized.",4580.96,4593.82,{"idx":4509,"utterance_id":4510,"speaker_name":176,"text":4511,"start_s":4512,"end_s":4513,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},727,"211886","Lula, Ricardo Cocho, when I say nothing about him, he smiles.",4594.18,4597.84,{"idx":4515,"utterance_id":4516,"speaker_name":176,"text":4517,"start_s":4518,"end_s":4519,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},728,"211887","Now, did you see?",4597.94,4598.44,{"idx":4521,"utterance_id":4522,"speaker_name":176,"text":4523,"start_s":4524,"end_s":4525,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},729,"211888","He gets upset because he can't ask, but now when I say nothing... Please, Ricardo.",4599.28,4602.72,{"idx":4527,"utterance_id":4528,"speaker_name":176,"text":4529,"start_s":4530,"end_s":4531,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},730,"211889","I wanted to return to a central issue you yourself raised last week about the Constituent Assembly: the question of the deadline and duration of the Constituent Assembly.",4603.54,4609.74,{"idx":4533,"utterance_id":4534,"speaker_name":176,"text":4535,"start_s":4536,"end_s":4537,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},731,"211890","You said that everything that comes up, every problem the worker had in the country, the Constituent Assembly would solve.",4609.88,4615.3,{"idx":4539,"utterance_id":4540,"speaker_name":176,"text":4541,"start_s":4542,"end_s":4543,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},732,"211891","What is important now is to set a deadline; you said one year.",4615.32,4618.26,{"idx":4545,"utterance_id":4546,"speaker_name":176,"text":4547,"start_s":4548,"end_s":4549,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},733,"211892","And at the same time you advocate a referendum, a plebiscite—the referendum on the new Constitution.",4618.88,4624.36,{"idx":4551,"utterance_id":4552,"speaker_name":176,"text":4553,"start_s":4554,"end_s":4555,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},734,"211893","How do you resolve that?",4624.66,4625.74,{"idx":4557,"utterance_id":4558,"speaker_name":176,"text":4559,"start_s":4560,"end_s":4561,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},735,"211894","If, for example, after one year it goes to a plebiscite and the Constituent proposal is rejected.",4625.76,4631.5,{"idx":4563,"utterance_id":4564,"speaker_name":176,"text":4565,"start_s":4566,"end_s":4567,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},736,"211895","Everything starts over; it takes another two years, three years.",4632.16,4634.2,{"idx":4569,"utterance_id":4570,"speaker_name":176,"text":4571,"start_s":4572,"end_s":4573,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},737,"211896","How do you intend to resolve these two things?",4634.22,4635.82,{"idx":4575,"utterance_id":4576,"speaker_name":176,"text":4577,"start_s":4578,"end_s":4579,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},738,"211897","The Constituent's deadline and the popular referendum?",4635.84,4638.44,{"idx":4581,"utterance_id":4582,"speaker_name":176,"text":4583,"start_s":4584,"end_s":4585,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},739,"211898","Look, what is my concern with the deadline?",4638.7,4640.58,{"idx":4587,"utterance_id":4588,"speaker_name":176,"text":4589,"start_s":4590,"end_s":4591,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},740,"211899","Is that the deadline will determine some serious matters in this country.",4641.14,4645.74,{"idx":4593,"utterance_id":4594,"speaker_name":176,"text":4595,"start_s":4596,"end_s":4597,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},741,"211900","Everyone in Brazil today says, regarding any demand a worker makes, the reply is: let's wait for the Constitution... So the worker cannot be left waiting three, four years.",4646.02,4656.86,{"idx":4599,"utterance_id":4600,"speaker_name":176,"text":4601,"start_s":4602,"end_s":4603,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},742,"211901","The Constitution needs to be approved in the shortest possible time, allowing us to guarantee certain rights to the Brazilian working class.",4657.36,4664.82,{"idx":4605,"utterance_id":4606,"speaker_name":176,"text":4607,"start_s":4608,"end_s":4609,"word_count":339,"indexable":180},743,"211902","And the referendum—why I have raised the idea of a referendum, together with other comrades in the PT—and let it be said that nothing has been approved yet in the PT, which may or may not be approved at the February Convention?",4665.6,4676,{"idx":4611,"utterance_id":4612,"speaker_name":176,"text":4613,"start_s":4614,"end_s":4615,"word_count":565,"indexable":180},744,"211903","It's that after you approve the Constitution in the National Congress, with the expectation that a good Constitution will be approved if there is pressure from the popular movement, you can use the media to explain to the population what each chapter of the Constitution is and from there call on the people to vote either chapter by chapter or to vote on the Constitution in full.",4676.5,4700.76,{"idx":4617,"utterance_id":4618,"speaker_name":176,"text":4619,"start_s":4620,"end_s":4621,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},745,"211904","But doesn't that run the risk of this process never ending?",4700.78,4702.88,{"idx":4623,"utterance_id":4624,"speaker_name":176,"text":4625,"start_s":4626,"end_s":4627,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},746,"211905","No, how would it not end?",4702.9,4703.78,{"idx":4629,"utterance_id":4630,"speaker_name":176,"text":4631,"start_s":4632,"end_s":4633,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},747,"211906","How many months would that take?",4703.8,4705.46,{"idx":4635,"utterance_id":4636,"speaker_name":176,"text":4637,"start_s":4638,"end_s":4639,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},748,"211907","If you use mass media, in 20 or 30 days you can publicize the Constitution?",4706,4711.98,{"idx":4641,"utterance_id":4642,"speaker_name":176,"text":4643,"start_s":4644,"end_s":4645,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},749,"211908","You only need to use half an hour a day?",4712.9,4714.82,{"idx":4647,"utterance_id":4648,"speaker_name":176,"text":4649,"start_s":4650,"end_s":4651,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},750,"211909","An hour a day?",4715.98,4716.82,{"idx":4653,"utterance_id":4654,"speaker_name":176,"text":4655,"start_s":4656,"end_s":4657,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},751,"211910","The only thing that worries me, Ricardo, is the following.",4717.36,4719.42,{"idx":4659,"utterance_id":4660,"speaker_name":176,"text":4661,"start_s":4662,"end_s":4663,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},752,"211911","Since everyone says that the Constitution is the most important thing that will be done in this country.",4719.5,4724.48,{"idx":4665,"utterance_id":4666,"speaker_name":176,"text":4667,"start_s":4668,"end_s":4669,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},753,"211912","Since everyone went to the streets and said that the Constitution is something that will solve the problems of the Brazilian people,",4725.2,4731.64,{"idx":4671,"utterance_id":4672,"speaker_name":176,"text":4673,"start_s":4674,"end_s":4675,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},754,"211913","as everyone",4732.14,4732.52,{"idx":4677,"utterance_id":4678,"speaker_name":176,"text":4679,"start_s":4680,"end_s":4681,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},755,"211914","went to the platforms and said they are democratic, that they want the people to participate, nothing could be fairer than the people saying whether they agree or disagree with the Constitution.",4732.58,4740.52,{"idx":50,"utterance_id":4683,"speaker_name":176,"text":4684,"start_s":4685,"end_s":4686,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},"211915","And it's a way to involve the people in taking on the responsibility of endorsing this Constitution.",4741.12,4748.9,{"idx":4688,"utterance_id":4689,"speaker_name":176,"text":4690,"start_s":4691,"end_s":4692,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},757,"211916","See, because many deputies will tell you in debate, 'ah, but I was elected and I have a mandate from the people.'",4749.52,4755.26,{"idx":4694,"utterance_id":4695,"speaker_name":176,"text":4696,"start_s":4697,"end_s":4698,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},758,"211917","Today I want, with the authority of one of the most voted deputies in São Paulo, to say the following: how many votes was I elected with?",4755.78,4761.22,{"idx":4700,"utterance_id":4701,"speaker_name":176,"text":4702,"start_s":4703,"end_s":4704,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},759,"211918","By 100, 200, 300, 400 thousand people?",4761.24,4763.64,{"idx":4706,"utterance_id":4707,"speaker_name":176,"text":4708,"start_s":4709,"end_s":4710,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},760,"211919","Brazil has 135 million Brazilians.",4764.1,4766.18,{"idx":4712,"utterance_id":4713,"speaker_name":176,"text":4714,"start_s":4715,"end_s":4716,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},761,"211920","And I think it is fair... that everyone, at least those over 16, can express themselves, whether they want it or not, whether it's good or not.",4766.74,4775.14,{"idx":4718,"utterance_id":4719,"speaker_name":176,"text":4720,"start_s":4721,"end_s":4722,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},762,"211921","Because we are not going to be making a Constitution for ourselves.",4775.52,4778.98,{"idx":4724,"utterance_id":4725,"speaker_name":176,"text":4726,"start_s":4727,"end_s":4728,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},763,"211922","We are going to be making a Constitution, I hope, for the future of this country.",4779.38,4783.24,{"idx":4730,"utterance_id":4731,"speaker_name":176,"text":4732,"start_s":4733,"end_s":4734,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},764,"211923","And if it is for the future of this country, Curto, I want to assure you that I want for my children a better world than the one I live in today.",4783.66,4791.6,{"idx":4736,"utterance_id":4737,"speaker_name":176,"text":4738,"start_s":4739,"end_s":4740,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},765,"211924","I wanted to take the opportunity to add, I had a chance.",4791.88,4793.72,{"idx":4742,"utterance_id":4743,"speaker_name":176,"text":4744,"start_s":4745,"end_s":4746,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},766,"211925","I only intended to add on to the other point here.",4793.74,4795.24,{"idx":688,"utterance_id":4748,"speaker_name":176,"text":4749,"start_s":4750,"end_s":4751,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},"211926","Okay.",4795.3,4795.5,{"idx":4753,"utterance_id":4754,"speaker_name":176,"text":4755,"start_s":4756,"end_s":4757,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},768,"211927","Go ahead, Ricardo, go ahead.",4795.52,4797.78,{"idx":4759,"utterance_id":4760,"speaker_name":176,"text":4761,"start_s":4762,"end_s":4763,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},769,"211928","I wanted to tell you something that a taxi driver told me last week.",4797.8,4801.34,{"idx":4765,"utterance_id":4766,"speaker_name":176,"text":4767,"start_s":4768,"end_s":4769,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},770,"211929","You said you would be— and you will be—one of the most voted deputies in the country.",4801.36,4805.26,{"idx":4771,"utterance_id":4772,"speaker_name":176,"text":4773,"start_s":4774,"end_s":4775,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},771,"211930","He said the following: that Lula swore for half an hour in the taxi.",4805.38,4808.22,{"idx":4777,"utterance_id":4778,"speaker_name":176,"text":4779,"start_s":4780,"end_s":4781,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},772,"211931","That Lula is doing well now—deputy and all that, living in Brasília.",4808.3,4811.44,{"idx":4783,"utterance_id":4784,"speaker_name":176,"text":4785,"start_s":4786,"end_s":4787,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},773,"211932","And what about those thousands of workers who are unemployed in São Bernardo.",4811.88,4815.06,{"idx":4789,"utterance_id":4790,"speaker_name":176,"text":4791,"start_s":4792,"end_s":4793,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},774,"211933","There are many people who still think like that, who believe that.",4815.14,4817.74,{"idx":4795,"utterance_id":4796,"speaker_name":176,"text":4797,"start_s":4798,"end_s":4799,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},775,"211934","I wanted you to answer that taxi driver.",4817.76,4820.02,{"idx":4801,"utterance_id":4802,"speaker_name":176,"text":4803,"start_s":4804,"end_s":4805,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},776,"211935","I mean, you now—former metalworker, deputy.",4820.42,4823.28,{"idx":4807,"utterance_id":4808,"speaker_name":176,"text":4809,"start_s":4810,"end_s":4811,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},777,"211936","And the accusation made is that there are many unemployed people in the ABC region.",4824.02,4827.08,{"idx":4813,"utterance_id":4814,"speaker_name":176,"text":4815,"start_s":4816,"end_s":4817,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},778,"211937","to earn the same as a multinational manager.",4827.1,4828.94,{"idx":4819,"utterance_id":4820,"speaker_name":176,"text":4821,"start_s":4822,"end_s":4823,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},779,"211938","Look, I think that this taxi driver—there are many people like him.",4828.96,4836.84,{"idx":4825,"utterance_id":4826,"speaker_name":176,"text":4827,"start_s":4828,"end_s":4829,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},780,"211939","And rest assured, comrade, if you are watching me, that I have no grudge against you for thinking that.",4837.08,4842.8,{"idx":4831,"utterance_id":4832,"speaker_name":176,"text":4833,"start_s":4834,"end_s":4835,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},781,"211940","Because I think if we weren't a misinformed society... a society even ignorant in terms of political formulation, we wouldn't have Brazil in the situation it is in today.",4843.62,4855.8,{"idx":4837,"utterance_id":4838,"speaker_name":176,"text":4839,"start_s":4840,"end_s":4841,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},782,"211941","And sometimes I joke with others, I say, how can I fire someone if I don't own a single factory?",4856.4,4861.34,{"idx":4843,"utterance_id":4844,"speaker_name":176,"text":4845,"start_s":4846,"end_s":4847,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},783,"211942","How can I dismiss someone?",4861.92,4863.32,{"idx":4849,"utterance_id":4850,"speaker_name":176,"text":4851,"start_s":4852,"end_s":4853,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},784,"211943","And that happens a lot.",4863.82,4864.9,{"idx":4855,"utterance_id":4856,"speaker_name":176,"text":4857,"start_s":4858,"end_s":4859,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},785,"211944","You wage a struggle, you go on strike, and if after the strike you didn't win, often the worker turns against the union when he should turn against the government.",4864.92,4875.98,{"idx":4861,"utterance_id":4862,"speaker_name":176,"text":4863,"start_s":4864,"end_s":4865,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},786,"211945","or against the employer.",4876.38,4877.24,{"idx":4867,"utterance_id":4868,"speaker_name":176,"text":4869,"start_s":4870,"end_s":4871,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},787,"211946","I think it's normal, Ricardo; I think there are many comrades like that.",4877.64,4880.78,{"idx":44,"utterance_id":4873,"speaker_name":176,"text":4874,"start_s":4875,"end_s":4876,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},"211947","And I think we'll have a lot of work to politicize these people.",4881.4,4885.1,{"idx":4878,"utterance_id":4879,"speaker_name":176,"text":4880,"start_s":4881,"end_s":4882,"word_count":406,"indexable":180},789,"211948","Those who knew the São Bernardo strikes, those who know the process of a strike, know very well that there can be two 'democrats', but there has never been anyone more democratic than me when it comes to putting an assembly or a strike to a vote.",4885.64,4898.52,{"idx":4884,"utterance_id":4885,"speaker_name":176,"text":4886,"start_s":4887,"end_s":4888,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},790,"211949","I sometimes even used to, I even annoyed and disturbed the workers when I said, look, think carefully.",4899.06,4904.9,{"idx":4890,"utterance_id":4891,"speaker_name":176,"text":4892,"start_s":4893,"end_s":4894,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},791,"211950","Because we're going to go on strike, the bosses will toughen up, and we must know whether we can hold out or not.",4904.92,4911.12,{"idx":4896,"utterance_id":4897,"speaker_name":176,"text":4898,"start_s":4899,"end_s":4900,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},792,"211951","And the people would raise their hands.",4912.12,4913.18,{"idx":4902,"utterance_id":4903,"speaker_name":176,"text":4904,"start_s":4905,"end_s":4906,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},793,"211952","Look, we held assemblies, and it's important—the taxi driver comrade is even invited to participate in a metalworkers' assembly.",4914.16,4920.96,{"idx":4908,"utterance_id":4909,"speaker_name":176,"text":4910,"start_s":4911,"end_s":4912,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},794,"211953","We didn't hold one assembly for appearances and another for real.",4921.42,4923.94,{"idx":712,"utterance_id":4914,"speaker_name":176,"text":4915,"start_s":4916,"end_s":4917,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},"211954","We held assemblies every single day, and every single day things were put to a vote.",4924.38,4932.24,{"idx":4919,"utterance_id":4920,"speaker_name":176,"text":4921,"start_s":4922,"end_s":4923,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},796,"211955","Now, I think the strike resulted in something interesting for the working class.",4932.84,4938,{"idx":4925,"utterance_id":4926,"speaker_name":176,"text":4927,"start_s":4928,"end_s":4929,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},797,"211956","I think those who worked inside the factory until 1980 know how hard it was for us to raise our heads, up until 1977, 1975.",4938.66,4944.9,{"idx":4931,"utterance_id":4932,"speaker_name":176,"text":4933,"start_s":4934,"end_s":4935,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},798,"211957","And today you realize that the worker has a much greater political awareness; you know that the worker has already learned to make demands in many categories.",4944.92,4953.3,{"idx":4937,"utterance_id":4938,"speaker_name":176,"text":4939,"start_s":4940,"end_s":4941,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},799,"211958","So much so that the PT lost in São Bernardo, Lula.",4953.84,4956.42,{"idx":4943,"utterance_id":4944,"speaker_name":176,"text":4945,"start_s":4946,"end_s":4947,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},800,"211959","There is political awareness that the PT lost in São Bernardo.",4956.44,4958.8,{"idx":4949,"utterance_id":4950,"speaker_name":176,"text":4951,"start_s":4952,"end_s":4953,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},801,"211960","Perhaps you abandoned your candidate.",4959.1,4960.94,{"idx":4955,"utterance_id":4956,"speaker_name":176,"text":4957,"start_s":4958,"end_s":4959,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},802,"211961","He's someone else, so I'll give you some information here.",4961,4963.7,{"idx":4961,"utterance_id":4962,"speaker_name":176,"text":4963,"start_s":4964,"end_s":4965,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},803,"211962","I'm going to give you a piece of information.",4963.84,4964.84,{"idx":4967,"utterance_id":4968,"speaker_name":176,"text":4969,"start_s":4970,"end_s":4971,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},804,"211963","You abandoned your candidate.",4965.16,4967.02,{"idx":4973,"utterance_id":4974,"speaker_name":176,"text":4963,"start_s":4975,"end_s":4976,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},805,"211964",4967.16,4969.04,{"idx":4978,"utterance_id":4979,"speaker_name":176,"text":4980,"start_s":4981,"end_s":4982,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},806,"211965","Boris, don't make that statement, because I think it's ungrateful.",4969.18,4972.78,{"idx":4984,"utterance_id":4985,"speaker_name":176,"text":4986,"start_s":4987,"end_s":4988,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},807,"211966","I want to know if it's true.",4973.38,4974.5,{"idx":4990,"utterance_id":4991,"speaker_name":176,"text":4992,"start_s":4993,"end_s":4994,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},808,"211967","No, but you asserted it, you didn't ask.",4974.98,4976.82,{"idx":4996,"utterance_id":4997,"speaker_name":176,"text":4998,"start_s":4999,"end_s":5000,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},809,"211968","It's not true.",4977.6,4978.3,{"idx":5002,"utterance_id":5003,"speaker_name":176,"text":5004,"start_s":5005,"end_s":5006,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},810,"211969","The PT is winning the elections.",4978.32,4979.92,{"idx":5008,"utterance_id":5009,"speaker_name":176,"text":5010,"start_s":5011,"end_s":5012,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},811,"211970","I'll tell you something, Boris.",4979.94,4982.42,{"idx":5014,"utterance_id":5015,"speaker_name":176,"text":5016,"start_s":5017,"end_s":5018,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},812,"211971","Do you know what my first assessment was?",4982.44,4984.88,{"idx":5020,"utterance_id":5021,"speaker_name":176,"text":5022,"start_s":5023,"end_s":5024,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},813,"211972","From São Bernardo do Campo, on Monday... Wait, wait, I'll get to that.",4985.42,4989.86,{"idx":5026,"utterance_id":5027,"speaker_name":176,"text":5028,"start_s":5029,"end_s":5030,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},814,"211973","It's that I don't like yes-or-no answers.",4990.46,4991.62,{"idx":5032,"utterance_id":5033,"speaker_name":176,"text":5034,"start_s":5035,"end_s":5036,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},815,"211974","I gave up on Madureza because I didn't like being left with just yes or no.",4991.98,4994.7,{"idx":5038,"utterance_id":5039,"speaker_name":176,"text":5040,"start_s":5041,"end_s":5042,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},816,"211975","I, oh Boris, am aware that in São Bernardo do Campo, the PT's potential, the PT's potential is to have at least 30% more votes than it had.",4995.64,5007.14,{"idx":5044,"utterance_id":5045,"speaker_name":176,"text":5046,"start_s":5047,"end_s":5048,"word_count":600,"indexable":180},817,"211976","And I want to confess to you something I confessed on Monday, when it was beginning... in the middle of the count, that in São Bernardo do Campo we had acted irresponsibly toward Suplicy, irresponsibly toward the candidacy of all the comrades, because, in my case, I campaigned across almost the entire capital and Greater São Paulo and the place I visited the least to campaign was São Bernardo do Campo.",5007.62,5031,{"idx":5050,"utterance_id":5051,"speaker_name":176,"text":5052,"start_s":5053,"end_s":5054,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},818,"211977","Even so, I was the most-voted candidate.",5031.48,5033.98,{"idx":5056,"utterance_id":5057,"speaker_name":176,"text":5058,"start_s":5059,"end_s":5060,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},819,"211978","Alone I beat Tito Corta and Felipe Cheiro together.",5034.06,5037.12,{"idx":5062,"utterance_id":5063,"speaker_name":176,"text":5064,"start_s":5065,"end_s":5066,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},820,"211979","And Suplicy lost there by a margin between him and Quercia and Antônio Emílio de Moraes because of one vote.",5038.08,5043.96,{"idx":5068,"utterance_id":5069,"speaker_name":176,"text":5070,"start_s":5071,"end_s":5072,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},821,"211980","Now, look, when I say... I didn't make the assertion; your law is a lost one.",5044.5,5047.66,{"idx":5074,"utterance_id":5075,"speaker_name":176,"text":5076,"start_s":5077,"end_s":5078,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},822,"211981","No, you asserted it; that's why I'm explaining to you that you need to know the details, because otherwise it becomes a very empty thing.",5047.68,5054.16,{"idx":5080,"utterance_id":5081,"speaker_name":176,"text":5082,"start_s":5083,"end_s":5084,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},823,"211982","And I think that we would never, ever have been able to lose the Soberano do Campo elections if we had put into practice, Boris, you know?",5054.2,5064.28,{"idx":5086,"utterance_id":5087,"speaker_name":176,"text":5088,"start_s":5089,"end_s":5090,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},824,"211983","at 50% of the working potential capacity.",5064.74,5068.68,{"idx":5092,"utterance_id":5093,"speaker_name":176,"text":5094,"start_s":5095,"end_s":5096,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},825,"211984","But did you abandon the PT's candidate for the state government?",5068.74,5071.56,{"idx":5098,"utterance_id":5099,"speaker_name":176,"text":5100,"start_s":5101,"end_s":5102,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},826,"211985","Was Eduardo Suplicy totally abandoned?",5071.62,5073.84,{"idx":5104,"utterance_id":5105,"speaker_name":176,"text":5106,"start_s":5107,"end_s":5108,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},827,"211986","That's not true.",5073.86,5074.54,{"idx":5110,"utterance_id":5111,"speaker_name":176,"text":5112,"start_s":5113,"end_s":5114,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},828,"211987","I think there was a lot of intrigue regarding FOE's campaign.",5075,5079.04,{"idx":5116,"utterance_id":5117,"speaker_name":176,"text":5118,"start_s":5119,"end_s":5120,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},829,"211988","But the PT leadership absolutely abandoned Torbicudo's demonstrations.",5079.22,5082.54,{"idx":5122,"utterance_id":5123,"speaker_name":176,"text":5124,"start_s":5125,"end_s":5126,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},830,"211989","now?",5082.58,5082.98,{"idx":5128,"utterance_id":5129,"speaker_name":176,"text":5130,"start_s":5131,"end_s":5132,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},831,"211990","They show that.",5083.28,5083.78,{"idx":5134,"utterance_id":5135,"speaker_name":176,"text":5136,"start_s":5137,"end_s":5138,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},832,"211991","The PT leadership abandoned Eduardo Suplicy's candidacy halfway through.",5083.82,5086.7,{"idx":5140,"utterance_id":5141,"speaker_name":176,"text":5142,"start_s":5143,"end_s":5144,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},833,"211992","It shows that the PT leadership was all candidates.",5086.72,5089.04,{"idx":5146,"utterance_id":5147,"speaker_name":176,"text":5148,"start_s":5149,"end_s":5150,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},834,"211993","And it shows that each comrade was taking care of his own vote.",5089.64,5092.54,{"idx":5152,"utterance_id":5153,"speaker_name":176,"text":5154,"start_s":5155,"end_s":5156,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},835,"211994","Just returning to an issue we were discussing a little before coming in.",5092.56,5095.1,{"idx":5158,"utterance_id":5159,"speaker_name":176,"text":5160,"start_s":5161,"end_s":5162,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},836,"211995","This abandonment or non-abandonment by the leadership, by Suplicy, I don't know.",5095.12,5098.36,{"idx":5164,"utterance_id":5165,"speaker_name":176,"text":5166,"start_s":5167,"end_s":5168,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},837,"211996","We were talking about your new job, federal deputy.",5098.38,5101.88,{"idx":782,"utterance_id":5170,"speaker_name":176,"text":5171,"start_s":5172,"end_s":5173,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},"211997","You started working as a lathe operator; you had a lathe operator's salary.",5102.36,5105.74,{"idx":5175,"utterance_id":5176,"speaker_name":176,"text":5177,"start_s":5178,"end_s":5179,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},839,"211998","Then, as a union leader, that salary...",5105.78,5108.98,{"idx":5181,"utterance_id":5182,"speaker_name":176,"text":5183,"start_s":5184,"end_s":5185,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},840,"211999","Lathe operator's salary.",5109,5110.12,{"idx":5187,"utterance_id":5188,"speaker_name":176,"text":5189,"start_s":5190,"end_s":5191,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},841,"212000","You had the salary of a lathe operator.",5110.14,5111.32,{"idx":5193,"utterance_id":5194,"speaker_name":176,"text":5195,"start_s":5196,"end_s":5197,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},842,"212001","Later you have, today you should live off a salary from the party.",5111.66,5114.56,{"idx":5199,"utterance_id":5200,"speaker_name":176,"text":5201,"start_s":5202,"end_s":5203,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},843,"212002","Now you're going to have a salary... Well, you'll clarify, I'm not accusing you of receiving it, I want to know.",5114.92,5121.72,{"idx":5205,"utterance_id":5206,"speaker_name":176,"text":5207,"start_s":5208,"end_s":5209,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},844,"212003","Now you're going to have a salary; according to what Floreal said up there, it's a salary at the level of a multinational manager.",5122.16,5127.14,{"idx":5211,"utterance_id":5212,"speaker_name":176,"text":5213,"start_s":5214,"end_s":5215,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},845,"212004","You'll earn more or less about 50,000 cruzados per month, between salary, benefits and such.",5127.16,5132.2,{"idx":38,"utterance_id":5217,"speaker_name":176,"text":5218,"start_s":5219,"end_s":5220,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},"212005","You'll receive jeton even after you're no longer [in office]; I don't know if you'll receive it, but you'll be entitled to it.",5132.58,5138.36,{"idx":5222,"utterance_id":5223,"speaker_name":176,"text":5224,"start_s":5225,"end_s":5226,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},847,"212006","I want to know if you will receive it; I want to know what you'll do with this extra income that will come into your life.",5138.8,5144.2,{"idx":5228,"utterance_id":5229,"speaker_name":176,"text":5230,"start_s":5231,"end_s":5232,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},848,"212007","I suppose you don't earn those 50,000 cruzados today.",5144.96,5147.28,{"idx":5234,"utterance_id":5235,"speaker_name":176,"text":5236,"start_s":5237,"end_s":5238,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},849,"212008","Am I wrong or am I right?",5147.3,5148.36,{"idx":5240,"utterance_id":5241,"speaker_name":176,"text":5242,"start_s":5243,"end_s":5244,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},850,"212009","It'll be more than 50.",5148.38,5149.48,{"idx":5246,"utterance_id":5247,"speaker_name":176,"text":5248,"start_s":5249,"end_s":5250,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},851,"212010","It's more; it's almost 80.",5149.82,5151.2,{"idx":5252,"utterance_id":5253,"speaker_name":176,"text":5254,"start_s":5255,"end_s":5256,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},852,"212011","Can I answer now?",5151.44,5152.5,{"idx":5258,"utterance_id":5259,"speaker_name":176,"text":5260,"start_s":5261,"end_s":5262,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},853,"212012","I can answer now.",5152.52,5153.54,{"idx":5264,"utterance_id":5265,"speaker_name":176,"text":964,"start_s":5266,"end_s":5267,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},854,"212013",5153.66,5154.08,{"idx":5269,"utterance_id":5270,"speaker_name":176,"text":5271,"start_s":5272,"end_s":5273,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},855,"212014","Will you socialize that money?",5154.22,5155.56,{"idx":5275,"utterance_id":5276,"speaker_name":176,"text":5277,"start_s":5278,"end_s":5279,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},856,"212015","I'll tell you two things.",5155.58,5158.62,{"idx":5281,"utterance_id":5282,"speaker_name":176,"text":5283,"start_s":5284,"end_s":5285,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},857,"212016","First, I think that in Brazil serious people normally suffer more than people who are not serious.",5159.36,5169.06,{"idx":5287,"utterance_id":5288,"speaker_name":176,"text":5289,"start_s":5290,"end_s":5291,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},858,"212017","And everyone knows, concretely and objectively, that I believe there may be a person like me, more serious than me; I doubt there is one.",5170.18,5179.98,{"idx":5293,"utterance_id":5294,"speaker_name":176,"text":5295,"start_s":5296,"end_s":5297,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},859,"212018","For a simple reason, because I have a bit of responsibility.",5180.8,5184.42,{"idx":5299,"utterance_id":5300,"speaker_name":176,"text":5301,"start_s":5302,"end_s":5303,"word_count":424,"indexable":180},860,"212019","When I took on leadership of a professional category, and several times at the factory gate I promised the workers that at no moment in my life would I betray the dream of the working class and that I would try to lead them to victorious struggles.",5185,5199.62,{"idx":5305,"utterance_id":5306,"speaker_name":176,"text":5307,"start_s":5308,"end_s":5309,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},861,"212020","And nobody believes it.",5200.54,5201.52,{"idx":5311,"utterance_id":5312,"speaker_name":176,"text":5313,"start_s":5314,"end_s":5315,"word_count":237,"indexable":180},862,"212021","No one believes it, although the São Bernardo do Campo union suffered two interventions, and in one intervention Mr. Murilo Macedo even went to all the bank branches in São Bernardo do Campo, something that is prohibited by law, to audit my account and the account of the union's board.",5202.44,5219.02,{"idx":5317,"utterance_id":5318,"speaker_name":176,"text":5319,"start_s":5320,"end_s":5321,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},863,"212022","Murilo Macedo was the Minister of Labor.",5219.04,5220.44,{"idx":5323,"utterance_id":5324,"speaker_name":176,"text":5325,"start_s":5326,"end_s":5327,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},864,"212023","He was the Minister of Labor at the time.",5220.46,5221.7,{"idx":5329,"utterance_id":5330,"speaker_name":176,"text":5331,"start_s":5332,"end_s":5333,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},865,"212024","It's good to say because he was so insignificant that no one remembers him anymore.",5222.08,5224.68,{"idx":5335,"utterance_id":5336,"speaker_name":176,"text":5337,"start_s":5338,"end_s":5339,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},866,"212025","And that person, that person... carried out two audits, one even took 57 days.",5225.66,5231.74,{"idx":5341,"utterance_id":5342,"speaker_name":176,"text":5343,"start_s":5344,"end_s":5345,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},867,"212026","They even rummaged through the union's coffers and couldn't find a single penny to account for the money from the two administrations in which I was union president.",5232.04,5242.12,{"idx":5347,"utterance_id":5348,"speaker_name":176,"text":5349,"start_s":5350,"end_s":5351,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},868,"212027","And today I earn from the union 9,600 cruzados per month.",5242.86,5246.38,{"idx":5353,"utterance_id":5354,"speaker_name":176,"text":5355,"start_s":5356,"end_s":5357,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},869,"212028","Possibly it doesn't reach 9,600, around 9,300.",5246.74,5250.12,{"idx":5359,"utterance_id":5360,"speaker_name":176,"text":5361,"start_s":5362,"end_s":5363,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},870,"212029","And it's the salary I'll earn after becoming a deputy.",5250.66,5253.84,{"idx":5365,"utterance_id":5366,"speaker_name":176,"text":5367,"start_s":5368,"end_s":5369,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},871,"212030","For a very simple reason.",5254.42,5255.74,{"idx":5371,"utterance_id":5372,"speaker_name":176,"text":5373,"start_s":5374,"end_s":5375,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},872,"212031","I don't want my family to live the best of their lives by virtue of me being a deputy, which is not a profession.",5256.76,5263.66,{"idx":5377,"utterance_id":5378,"speaker_name":176,"text":5379,"start_s":5380,"end_s":5381,"word_count":377,"indexable":180},873,"212032","I want my family to continue living on the salary I used to earn and the remainder of the salary, whatever comes above that, is the Workers' Party that will have to manage it.",5264.84,5276.02,{"idx":5383,"utterance_id":5384,"speaker_name":176,"text":5385,"start_s":5386,"end_s":5387,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},874,"212033","I have this as a principle.",5278,5279.52,{"idx":5389,"utterance_id":5390,"speaker_name":176,"text":5391,"start_s":5392,"end_s":5393,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},875,"212034","I already said this in a magazine about eight months ago.",5279.92,5283.4,{"idx":5395,"utterance_id":5396,"speaker_name":176,"text":5397,"start_s":5398,"end_s":5399,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},876,"212035","It wasn't a campaign promise, nor is it, what's it called?",5283.9,5287.7,{"idx":5401,"utterance_id":5402,"speaker_name":176,"text":5403,"start_s":5404,"end_s":5405,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},877,"212036","Demagoguery.",5289.88,5290.5,{"idx":5407,"utterance_id":5408,"speaker_name":176,"text":5409,"start_s":5410,"end_s":5411,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},878,"212037","I said this in a magazine about six months ago.",5290.52,5293.44,{"idx":5413,"utterance_id":5414,"speaker_name":176,"text":5415,"start_s":5416,"end_s":5417,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},879,"212038","I have been saying this to all the comrades.",5293.78,5295.5,{"idx":5419,"utterance_id":5420,"speaker_name":176,"text":5421,"start_s":5422,"end_s":5423,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},880,"212039","And I have already told my family.",5296.32,5298.24,{"idx":5425,"utterance_id":5426,"speaker_name":176,"text":5427,"start_s":5428,"end_s":5429,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},881,"212040","What did your wife think of the idea?",5298.26,5302.58,{"idx":5431,"utterance_id":5432,"speaker_name":176,"text":5433,"start_s":5434,"end_s":5435,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},882,"212041","My wife agrees.",5302.84,5303.94,{"idx":5437,"utterance_id":5438,"speaker_name":176,"text":5439,"start_s":5440,"end_s":5441,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},883,"212042","She agrees because I think my wife has political awareness and knows the role we can play inside and outside the PT.",5304.2,5312.7,{"idx":5443,"utterance_id":5444,"speaker_name":176,"text":5445,"start_s":5446,"end_s":5447,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},884,"212043","So, look, since I don't see the mandate as a profession, I have no interest in raising my wife's standard of living.",5313.28,5322.82,{"idx":5449,"utterance_id":5450,"speaker_name":176,"text":5451,"start_s":5452,"end_s":5453,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},885,"212044","Now look, look, look, look, look.",5322.84,5326.66,{"idx":5455,"utterance_id":5456,"speaker_name":176,"text":5457,"start_s":5458,"end_s":5459,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},886,"212045","First, I believe there's no such thing as you receiving jeton if you don't participate.",5326.86,5332.52,{"idx":5461,"utterance_id":5462,"speaker_name":176,"text":5463,"start_s":5464,"end_s":5465,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},887,"212046","Besides, I don't even know why Getô.",5332.9,5335.42,{"idx":5467,"utterance_id":5468,"speaker_name":176,"text":5469,"start_s":5470,"end_s":5471,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},888,"212047","I think that the deputy's salary should be a fixed salary.",5336.02,5339.42,{"idx":5473,"utterance_id":5474,"speaker_name":176,"text":5475,"start_s":5476,"end_s":5477,"word_count":418,"indexable":180},889,"212048","The deputy will earn so much per month; income tax will be levied on it, as it is on any worker's salary, and from then on the person has the obligation to go there to do or to fulfill his role.",5339.84,5352.26,{"idx":5479,"utterance_id":5480,"speaker_name":176,"text":5481,"start_s":5482,"end_s":5483,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},890,"212049","Now look, I'm saying this and you may be thinking, but Lula is talking now.",5352.9,5358.46,{"idx":5485,"utterance_id":5486,"speaker_name":176,"text":5487,"start_s":5488,"end_s":5489,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},891,"212050","I even found it strange, because someone already went to the union, already went to the PT this week to ask if I wanted an apartment, to find out which bank I wanted to open an account with, all that business.",5359.24,5368.62,{"idx":5491,"utterance_id":5492,"speaker_name":176,"text":5493,"start_s":5494,"end_s":5495,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},892,"212051","And I think the following: I think it's necessary to change the way of doing politics in this country.",5368.64,5372.52,{"idx":5497,"utterance_id":5498,"speaker_name":176,"text":5499,"start_s":5500,"end_s":5501,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},893,"212052","We had extraordinary comrades, like Djalma, Genuíne, Imbra Passoni, who were five comrades who tried to fight against everything and everyone.",5373.12,5380.28,{"idx":5503,"utterance_id":5504,"speaker_name":176,"text":5505,"start_s":5506,"end_s":5507,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},894,"212053","We now have the possibility of having 18 or 17 more comrades, which is already an additional force.",5380.88,5386.12,{"idx":5509,"utterance_id":5510,"speaker_name":176,"text":5511,"start_s":5512,"end_s":5513,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},895,"212054","And I think that we will... try to change a bit the way of doing politics in this country.",5386.58,5390.82,{"idx":5515,"utterance_id":5516,"speaker_name":176,"text":5517,"start_s":5518,"end_s":5519,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},896,"212055","So, for the income tax people who must be watching, for the income tax, for federal politics, for the CNI, Lula earns only, I think less than R$ 9,600.",5391.22,5401.64,{"idx":5521,"utterance_id":5522,"speaker_name":176,"text":5523,"start_s":5524,"end_s":5525,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},897,"212056","And whose money is paying your salary now?",5402.04,5403.96,{"idx":5527,"utterance_id":5528,"speaker_name":176,"text":5529,"start_s":5530,"end_s":5531,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},898,"212057","From whom do you receive this money?",5403.98,5405.16,{"idx":5533,"utterance_id":5534,"speaker_name":176,"text":5535,"start_s":5536,"end_s":5537,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},899,"212058","I receive it from the union, because I'm a suspended director of the union, against the will of many people.",5405.18,5410.04,{"idx":5539,"utterance_id":5540,"speaker_name":176,"text":5541,"start_s":5542,"end_s":5543,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},900,"212059","Fernando is eager to ask you a question.",5410.66,5414.36,{"idx":5545,"utterance_id":5546,"speaker_name":176,"text":5547,"start_s":5548,"end_s":5549,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},901,"212060","Afterwards, Sandra.",5414.46,5415.22,{"idx":5551,"utterance_id":5552,"speaker_name":176,"text":5553,"start_s":5554,"end_s":5555,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},902,"212061","And Walter.",5416.8,5417.3,{"idx":5557,"utterance_id":5558,"speaker_name":176,"text":5559,"start_s":5560,"end_s":5561,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},903,"212062","Will you give Sandra the floor afterwards?",5417.66,5420.16,{"idx":5563,"utterance_id":5564,"speaker_name":176,"text":5565,"start_s":5566,"end_s":5567,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},904,"212063","Alright, then I'll come back later.",5420.18,5421.42,{"idx":5569,"utterance_id":5570,"speaker_name":176,"text":5571,"start_s":5572,"end_s":5573,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},905,"212064","A few weeks ago, Lula appeared on that Roda Viva program with Captain Luiz Carlos Prestes, who made extremely complimentary remarks about him.",5421.64,5431.3,{"idx":5575,"utterance_id":5576,"speaker_name":176,"text":5577,"start_s":5578,"end_s":5579,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},906,"212065","He said explicitly that you are the only political leader who has emerged in this country since the 1964 coup.",5432.26,5438.76,{"idx":5581,"utterance_id":5582,"speaker_name":176,"text":5583,"start_s":5584,"end_s":5585,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},907,"212066","But he made one objection.",5438.78,5441.44,{"idx":5587,"utterance_id":5588,"speaker_name":176,"text":5589,"start_s":5590,"end_s":5591,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},908,"212067","He said that your only flaw is that you don't like to read.",5442.26,5444.26,{"idx":5593,"utterance_id":5594,"speaker_name":176,"text":5595,"start_s":5596,"end_s":5597,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},909,"212068","and quoted a phrase, attributed to you, that you had never managed to get past page 17 of a book.",5445.06,5452.86,{"idx":5599,"utterance_id":5600,"speaker_name":176,"text":5601,"start_s":5602,"end_s":5603,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},910,"212069","So I'd like to ask you two questions.",5452.94,5455.04,{"idx":5605,"utterance_id":5606,"speaker_name":176,"text":5607,"start_s":5608,"end_s":5609,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},911,"212070","First, do you think that political sensitivity, that experience in union struggle at the factory gate, are sufficient to form a leader like you?",5455.24,5467.58,{"idx":5611,"utterance_id":5612,"speaker_name":176,"text":5613,"start_s":5614,"end_s":5615,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},912,"212071","Do you think a leader like you can do without seeking... support in some theory, in studies, in essays written over the years?",5467.6,5479.82,{"idx":5617,"utterance_id":5618,"speaker_name":176,"text":5619,"start_s":5620,"end_s":5621,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},913,"212072","First, that question.",5479.86,5481.04,{"idx":5623,"utterance_id":5624,"speaker_name":176,"text":5625,"start_s":5626,"end_s":5627,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},914,"212073","Olga is recommended.",5481.16,5484.38,{"idx":5629,"utterance_id":5630,"speaker_name":176,"text":5631,"start_s":5632,"end_s":5633,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},915,"212074","The second question I'd like to ask you is the following.",5485.08,5487,{"idx":5635,"utterance_id":5636,"speaker_name":176,"text":5637,"start_s":5638,"end_s":5639,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},916,"212075","What was the last book you read and what did you think of it?",5487.02,5489.74,{"idx":5641,"utterance_id":5642,"speaker_name":176,"text":5643,"start_s":5644,"end_s":5645,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},917,"212076","But the first was the one from the commercial, huh?",5489.76,5491.82,{"idx":5647,"utterance_id":5648,"speaker_name":176,"text":5649,"start_s":5650,"end_s":5651,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},918,"212077","No, I'm kidding.",5491.84,5495.66,{"idx":5653,"utterance_id":5654,"speaker_name":176,"text":5655,"start_s":5656,"end_s":5657,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},919,"212078","I mean, the one who said that was Captain Carlos Prestes.",5495.68,5498.68,{"idx":5659,"utterance_id":5660,"speaker_name":176,"text":5661,"start_s":5662,"end_s":5663,"word_count":516,"indexable":180},920,"212079","I've always said — I think Prestes must have used some conversation I had with him — that I have always in effect said that I am a person, I believe like a great many people, who didn't acquire the habit of reading books; I'm extremely lazy about reading books.",5498.7,5516.62,{"idx":5665,"utterance_id":5666,"speaker_name":176,"text":5667,"start_s":5668,"end_s":5669,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},921,"212080","I'm not ashamed of it; many people think it's not politically wise to say that on television, but I think it's honest to say exactly what I do.",5517.12,5523.68,{"idx":5671,"utterance_id":5672,"speaker_name":176,"text":5673,"start_s":5674,"end_s":5675,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},922,"212081","But I want to confess to you, Fernando, that the last book I read in full — the last two — was the two-volume album you wrote.",5524.3,5533.56,{"idx":5677,"utterance_id":5678,"speaker_name":176,"text":5679,"start_s":5680,"end_s":5681,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},923,"212082","I mean, that wasn't arranged beforehand.",5533.82,5535.52,{"idx":5683,"utterance_id":5684,"speaker_name":176,"text":5685,"start_s":5686,"end_s":5687,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},924,"212083","And I read it on the way to Germany.",5535.56,5536.72,{"idx":5689,"utterance_id":5690,"speaker_name":176,"text":5691,"start_s":5692,"end_s":5693,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},925,"212084","And, by the way, I sent Frei Beto to congratulate you, because the book is extraordinary.",5537.06,5543.08,{"idx":5695,"utterance_id":5696,"speaker_name":176,"text":5697,"start_s":5698,"end_s":5699,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},926,"212085","And I read Fidel and Religion by Frei Beto.",5543.64,5546.08,{"idx":5701,"utterance_id":5702,"speaker_name":176,"text":5703,"start_s":5704,"end_s":5705,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},927,"212086","Now, what I read a lot is newspapers.",5546.72,5548.78,{"idx":5707,"utterance_id":5708,"speaker_name":176,"text":5709,"start_s":5710,"end_s":5711,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},928,"212087","I try to read newspapers, although every so often I read the editorials to see how much flak I'm taking, but I read quite a bit; I try to keep myself informed.",5549.32,5559.62,{"idx":5713,"utterance_id":5714,"speaker_name":176,"text":5715,"start_s":5716,"end_s":5717,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},929,"212088","And I think the right thing is to combine practice and theory.",5559.98,5567.48,{"idx":5719,"utterance_id":5720,"speaker_name":176,"text":5721,"start_s":5722,"end_s":5723,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},930,"212089","How do you deal with the PT's intellectuals?",5568.38,5570.38,{"idx":5725,"utterance_id":5726,"speaker_name":176,"text":5727,"start_s":5728,"end_s":5729,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},931,"212090","Because around you there generally circulate people who produce political theses, who produce...",5570.52,5575.78,{"idx":5731,"utterance_id":5732,"speaker_name":176,"text":5733,"start_s":5734,"end_s":5735,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},932,"212091","I get along wonderfully with them.",5576.48,5578.16,{"idx":5737,"utterance_id":5738,"speaker_name":176,"text":5739,"start_s":5740,"end_s":5741,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},933,"212092","And they don't bother you, don't they intimidate you?",5578.2,5580.9,{"idx":5743,"utterance_id":5744,"speaker_name":176,"text":5745,"start_s":5746,"end_s":5747,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},934,"212093","No, I think I learn from them and I think they learn from me.",5581.8,5584.26,{"idx":5749,"utterance_id":5750,"speaker_name":176,"text":5751,"start_s":5752,"end_s":5753,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},935,"212094","I think I have extraordinary things to teach them, and they have extraordinary things to teach me.",5584.88,5589.4,{"idx":5755,"utterance_id":5756,"speaker_name":176,"text":5757,"start_s":5758,"end_s":5759,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},936,"212095","And I think it's that marriage that allows us to keep moving forward.",5589.88,5593.74,{"idx":5761,"utterance_id":5762,"speaker_name":176,"text":5763,"start_s":5764,"end_s":5765,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},937,"212096","Doesn't VFOR occasionally give you a little book?",5593.76,5595.44,{"idx":5767,"utterance_id":5768,"speaker_name":176,"text":5769,"start_s":5770,"end_s":5771,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},938,"212097","He says, 'Lula, take a look at this, there's something interesting for you to read.'",5595.5,5598.38,{"idx":5773,"utterance_id":5774,"speaker_name":176,"text":5775,"start_s":5776,"end_s":5777,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},939,"212098","No, I occasionally ask for books, not only from VFOR — I ask for books.",5598.4,5603.04,{"idx":5779,"utterance_id":5780,"speaker_name":176,"text":5781,"start_s":5782,"end_s":5783,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},940,"212099","From any comrade in the PT, and sometimes I even ask comrades to suggest books that, you know, are considered important from the point of view of political formulation.",5603.72,5613.06,{"idx":5785,"utterance_id":5786,"speaker_name":176,"text":5787,"start_s":5788,"end_s":5789,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},941,"212100","And I only regret that we don't have, you know, more intellectuals of the level of VFOR, of Florestan Zenando, within the PT.",5613.78,5620.9,{"idx":5791,"utterance_id":5792,"speaker_name":176,"text":5793,"start_s":5794,"end_s":5795,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},942,"212101","I don't have any.",5621.48,5622.34,{"idx":5797,"utterance_id":5798,"speaker_name":176,"text":5799,"start_s":5800,"end_s":5801,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},943,"212102","The concern... The PT intellectuals are intellectuals from elsewhere, but not from the Workers' Party and not from those women workers either.",5623.08,5630.18,{"idx":5803,"utterance_id":5804,"speaker_name":176,"text":5805,"start_s":5806,"end_s":5807,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},944,"212103","Since we're talking about the backstage, the real kitchen of the PT, I'd like to press on that... You were saying that the PT didn't abandon Suplicy.",5630.2,5639.8,{"idx":5809,"utterance_id":5810,"speaker_name":176,"text":5811,"start_s":5812,"end_s":5813,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},945,"212104","But you know, as PT people know, many people accused you of personalism in this campaign and of not being content with a large margin of votes.",5640.42,5651.72,{"idx":5815,"utterance_id":5816,"speaker_name":176,"text":5817,"start_s":5818,"end_s":5819,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},946,"212105","He went ahead.",5652.1,5653.06,{"idx":5821,"utterance_id":5822,"speaker_name":176,"text":5823,"start_s":5824,"end_s":5825,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},947,"212106","and leaving aside some party comrades who were left out.",5653.56,5657.76,{"idx":5827,"utterance_id":5828,"speaker_name":176,"text":5829,"start_s":5830,"end_s":5831,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},948,"212107","How do you respond to that accusation?",5658.04,5659.52,{"idx":5833,"utterance_id":5834,"speaker_name":176,"text":5835,"start_s":5836,"end_s":5837,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},949,"212108","And I'd like to know how the party comes out of this election, not at the polls, but internally, in terms of decision-making.",5659.84,5666.28,{"idx":5839,"utterance_id":5840,"speaker_name":176,"text":5841,"start_s":5842,"end_s":5843,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},950,"212109","Well, first I'd like to know who the accuser is, because it would be harmful to him if I were with them.",5666.32,5672.48,{"idx":5845,"utterance_id":5846,"speaker_name":176,"text":5847,"start_s":5848,"end_s":5849,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},951,"212110","I had the chance to get more votes.",5673.2,5675.1,{"idx":5851,"utterance_id":5852,"speaker_name":176,"text":5853,"start_s":5854,"end_s":5855,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},952,"212111","Look, we have to acknowledge the following.",5675.78,5678.24,{"idx":5857,"utterance_id":5858,"speaker_name":176,"text":5859,"start_s":5860,"end_s":5861,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},953,"212112","that these elections had two serious aspects.",5678.78,5680.84,{"idx":5863,"utterance_id":5864,"speaker_name":176,"text":5865,"start_s":5866,"end_s":5867,"word_count":389,"indexable":180},954,"212113","Either the person had a lot of money to spend in the elections and managed to run very expensive advertising and get elected, or people voted for names that were easy to remember on election day.",5681,5694.56,{"idx":5869,"utterance_id":5870,"speaker_name":176,"text":5871,"start_s":5872,"end_s":5873,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},955,"212114","In a campaign where the Constituent Assembly was relegated to the background, where practically... nothing was said on television, with very rare and honorable exceptions.",5695.28,5705.9,{"idx":5875,"utterance_id":5876,"speaker_name":176,"text":5877,"start_s":5878,"end_s":5879,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},956,"212115","People voted for UNA without knowing 50% or 60% of the candidates.",5706.34,5710.74,{"idx":5881,"utterance_id":5882,"speaker_name":176,"text":5883,"start_s":5884,"end_s":5885,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},957,"212116","Look, when I started my campaign, I was aware and I was approved by the party as the main candidate.",5711.56,5718.86,{"idx":5887,"utterance_id":5888,"speaker_name":176,"text":5889,"start_s":5890,"end_s":5891,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},958,"212117","I even had the same rights to appear on television as Suplicy, Hélio Bicudo and Jacob Itar.",5718.88,5723.8,{"idx":5893,"utterance_id":5894,"speaker_name":176,"text":5895,"start_s":5896,"end_s":5897,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},959,"212118","And I was invited by the team that produced the program.",5723.82,5727.2,{"idx":5899,"utterance_id":5900,"speaker_name":176,"text":5901,"start_s":5902,"end_s":5903,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},960,"212119","Note that I only appeared on the program... the first two shows, in the opening week.",5727.28,5732.08,{"idx":5905,"utterance_id":5906,"speaker_name":176,"text":5907,"start_s":5908,"end_s":5909,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},961,"212120","After that I didn't appear anymore.",5732.46,5733.48,{"idx":5911,"utterance_id":5912,"speaker_name":176,"text":5913,"start_s":5914,"end_s":5915,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},962,"212121","I was called by the program's technical team to close things up, to do the PT's last three programs.",5733.96,5740.34,{"idx":5917,"utterance_id":5918,"speaker_name":176,"text":5919,"start_s":5920,"end_s":5921,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},963,"212122","And I refused.",5740.82,5741.48,{"idx":5923,"utterance_id":5924,"speaker_name":176,"text":5925,"start_s":5926,"end_s":5927,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},964,"212123","I refused precisely because I knew that my going on television would harm comrades who had not appeared on television.",5742,5749.68,{"idx":5929,"utterance_id":5930,"speaker_name":176,"text":5931,"start_s":5932,"end_s":5933,"word_count":459,"indexable":180},965,"212124","Now, I told PT comrades... and I kept saying it; you can ask any party leader — it was a speech I made in the Legislative Assembly with all the candidates — that we needed to stop competing for votes",5750.36,5767.96,{"idx":5935,"utterance_id":5936,"speaker_name":176,"text":5937,"start_s":5938,"end_s":5939,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},966,"212125","within the PT itself and instead go contest votes, you know, where Cuerça was strong, where Maluf was strong, where Dr. Emílio de Moraes was strong, because only that way would the PT grow.",5768.5,5778.1,{"idx":5941,"utterance_id":5942,"speaker_name":176,"text":5943,"start_s":5944,"end_s":5945,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},967,"212126","And I ran a campaign, basically a campaign based on my physical effort and that of hundreds of comrades who helped me.",5778.18,5786.36,{"idx":5947,"utterance_id":5948,"speaker_name":176,"text":5949,"start_s":5950,"end_s":5951,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},968,"212127","But in that physical effort, you were saying a little while ago to Boris that the party did not abandon Suplicy.",5786.38,5790.92,{"idx":5953,"utterance_id":5954,"speaker_name":176,"text":5955,"start_s":5956,"end_s":5957,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},969,"212128","I'll change the question a bit.",5791.46,5792.46,{"idx":929,"utterance_id":5959,"speaker_name":176,"text":5960,"start_s":5961,"end_s":5962,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},"212129","Did the party give Suplicy the same support it gave in the mayoral election, as the results show?",5792.48,5797.46,{"idx":5964,"utterance_id":5965,"speaker_name":176,"text":5966,"start_s":5967,"end_s":5968,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},971,"212130","It did.",5797.5,5797.56,{"idx":5970,"utterance_id":5971,"speaker_name":176,"text":5966,"start_s":5972,"end_s":5973,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},972,"212131",5798.46,5798.68,{"idx":5975,"utterance_id":5976,"speaker_name":176,"text":5977,"start_s":5978,"end_s":5979,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},973,"212132","So it did happen.",5799.08,5801.84,{"idx":5981,"utterance_id":5982,"speaker_name":176,"text":5983,"start_s":5984,"end_s":5985,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},974,"212133","It's that the PT's conditions were different.",5801.88,5803.98,{"idx":5987,"utterance_id":5988,"speaker_name":176,"text":5989,"start_s":5990,"end_s":5991,"word_count":430,"indexable":180},975,"212134","Look, look, I'm not a state leader, look, I just want to ask forgiveness from the comrades of the state leadership if I say something here that isn't true, because I don't attend the party's state leadership; I'm the party's national president.",5804.74,5818.3,{"idx":5993,"utterance_id":5994,"speaker_name":176,"text":5995,"start_s":5996,"end_s":5997,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},976,"212135","But the concrete fact is that we went into the mayoral campaign already facing potential debt.",5819.68,5826.34,{"idx":5999,"utterance_id":6000,"speaker_name":176,"text":6001,"start_s":6002,"end_s":6003,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},977,"212136","We finished the mayoral campaign, according to information from the state comrades, with a debt of 2 million cruzados.",5826.78,5834.34,{"idx":6005,"utterance_id":6006,"speaker_name":176,"text":6007,"start_s":6008,"end_s":6009,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},978,"212137","How much did the campaign cost?",5834.36,5835.76,{"idx":6011,"utterance_id":6012,"speaker_name":176,"text":6013,"start_s":6014,"end_s":6015,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},979,"212138","Do you know how much the party's campaign cost?",5835.78,5838.62,{"idx":6017,"utterance_id":6018,"speaker_name":176,"text":6019,"start_s":6020,"end_s":6021,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},980,"212139","That debt reached approximately 4 million cruzados at the start of the campaign, around September.",5838.82,5844.84,{"idx":6023,"utterance_id":6024,"speaker_name":176,"text":6025,"start_s":6026,"end_s":6027,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},981,"212140","And then all the money we raised, instead of being invested in Eduardo's campaign, was used to pay bills that were due at the bank.",5845.3,5852.52,{"idx":6029,"utterance_id":6030,"speaker_name":176,"text":6031,"start_s":6032,"end_s":6033,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},982,"212141","Was there debt carrying over?",5853.38,5854.12,{"idx":6035,"utterance_id":6036,"speaker_name":176,"text":6037,"start_s":6038,"end_s":6039,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},983,"212142","Yes, debt was rolling over.",5854.18,5855,{"idx":6041,"utterance_id":6042,"speaker_name":176,"text":6043,"start_s":6044,"end_s":6045,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},984,"212143","We, we, look, it reached a certain point, it's true, that there were times we didn't even have posters to produce.",5855.7,5862.22,{"idx":6047,"utterance_id":6048,"speaker_name":176,"text":6049,"start_s":6050,"end_s":6051,"word_count":436,"indexable":180},985,"212144","Many times PT comrades would call me at home to see if we could borrow money from the bank to put out a little newspaper, to print the poster that was at the printer, to print the leaflet to convene the committee.",5862.72,5874.02,{"idx":6053,"utterance_id":6054,"speaker_name":176,"text":6055,"start_s":6056,"end_s":6057,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},986,"212145","The director of the billboard center gave an interview to Folha de São Paulo, if I'm not mistaken, saying that he had offered... guaranteeing equal quotas, right?",5874.08,5880.78,{"idx":6059,"utterance_id":6060,"speaker_name":176,"text":6061,"start_s":6062,"end_s":6063,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},987,"212146","Exactly, he had offered the PT 150 billboards for free.",5880.8,5884.52,{"idx":6065,"utterance_id":6066,"speaker_name":176,"text":6067,"start_s":6068,"end_s":6069,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},988,"212147","And that the PT agreed in an initial discussion and later gave it up, saying no, that it wouldn't use them, that that medium was being used by millionaire candidates.",5885.06,5893.64,{"idx":6071,"utterance_id":6072,"speaker_name":176,"text":6073,"start_s":6074,"end_s":6075,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},989,"212148","Is that true?",5893.66,5894.2,{"idx":6077,"utterance_id":6078,"speaker_name":176,"text":6079,"start_s":6080,"end_s":6081,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},990,"212149","No, look, the information I had was that this was the party's plan; the idea was to do 300 billboards during the campaign, you know?",5894.74,5903.4,{"idx":6083,"utterance_id":6084,"speaker_name":176,"text":6085,"start_s":6086,"end_s":6087,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},991,"212150","Only that there weren't the means to make 300,000 posters.",5903.82,5906.58,{"idx":6089,"utterance_id":6090,"speaker_name":176,"text":6091,"start_s":6092,"end_s":6093,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},992,"212151","So the party's financial situation when it entered the campaign was very, very burdensome.",5908.18,5914.18,{"idx":6095,"utterance_id":6096,"speaker_name":176,"text":6097,"start_s":6098,"end_s":6099,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},993,"212152","And obviously I don't fail to acknowledge that there were political problems during the campaign.",5914.96,5919.96,{"idx":6101,"utterance_id":6102,"speaker_name":176,"text":6103,"start_s":6104,"end_s":6105,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},994,"212153","There were political problems; the press exposed many of them truthfully, but that wasn't what hindered Eduardo's campaign.",5920.72,5928.26,{"idx":6107,"utterance_id":6108,"speaker_name":176,"text":6109,"start_s":6110,"end_s":6111,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},995,"212154","But Suplicy was not the same as in the mayoral election.",5928.3,5931,{"idx":6113,"utterance_id":6114,"speaker_name":176,"text":6115,"start_s":6116,"end_s":6117,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},996,"212155","Suplicy was a Suplicy with problems, including ones that even temporarily paralyzed his campaign.",5931.02,5936.48,{"idx":6119,"utterance_id":6120,"speaker_name":176,"text":6121,"start_s":6122,"end_s":6123,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},997,"212156","There was something happening inside the PT.",5937.28,5938.64,{"idx":6125,"utterance_id":6126,"speaker_name":176,"text":6127,"start_s":6128,"end_s":6129,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},998,"212157","That took votes away from the party.",5938.66,5940.78,{"idx":6131,"utterance_id":6132,"speaker_name":176,"text":6133,"start_s":6134,"end_s":6135,"word_count":27,"indexable":180},999,"212158","I was actually going to make that assessment at a party executive meeting, but I think that Eduardo's pause was the start of our steep fall in public opinion polls.",5941,5953.7,{"idx":6137,"utterance_id":6138,"speaker_name":176,"text":6139,"start_s":6140,"end_s":6141,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},1000,"212159","Because you see, to the extent that Eduardo stopped... to the extent that Eduardo stopped.",5954.3,5957.58,{"idx":6143,"utterance_id":6144,"speaker_name":176,"text":6145,"start_s":6146,"end_s":6147,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},1001,"212160","And when I said it was even fair for him to stop, it was because Eduardo was on a marathon, you know, inhuman.",5958.18,5963.32,{"idx":6149,"utterance_id":6150,"speaker_name":176,"text":6151,"start_s":6152,"end_s":6153,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},1002,"212161","I mean, the guy had to get up at three in the morning to hit the road, to go to Botucatu, to go to Alice, to visit a fair.",5963.78,5969.76,{"idx":6155,"utterance_id":6156,"speaker_name":176,"text":6157,"start_s":6158,"end_s":6159,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1003,"212162","So there comes a time when the head stops working.",5970.78,5974,{"idx":6161,"utterance_id":6162,"speaker_name":176,"text":6163,"start_s":6164,"end_s":6165,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},1004,"212163","Now, when Eduardo stopped, and I didn't know he was going to stop — it was news to me, I saw it in the papers — I imagined he would come up with some new development.",5974.6,5983.04,{"idx":6167,"utterance_id":6168,"speaker_name":176,"text":6169,"start_s":6170,"end_s":6171,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},1005,"212164","Which didn't happen.",5983.84,5984.94,{"idx":6173,"utterance_id":6174,"speaker_name":176,"text":6175,"start_s":6176,"end_s":6177,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},1006,"212165","So everyone was left waiting, you know?",5985.34,5987.54,{"idx":6179,"utterance_id":6180,"speaker_name":176,"text":6181,"start_s":6182,"end_s":6183,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1007,"212166","The bomb that never showed up.",5987.98,5989.52,{"idx":6185,"utterance_id":6186,"speaker_name":176,"text":6187,"start_s":6188,"end_s":6189,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},1008,"212167","And there, I can guarantee, because I know people who talk to party activists — and look, I talk to a lot of people.",5990.7,5997.8,{"idx":6191,"utterance_id":6192,"speaker_name":176,"text":6193,"start_s":6194,"end_s":6195,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1009,"212168","And there, you know, many spirits cooled off; it only began to pick up again at the end.",5998.18,6002.92,{"idx":6197,"utterance_id":6198,"speaker_name":176,"text":6199,"start_s":6200,"end_s":6201,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1010,"212169","When the television program started, we were betting on the program's success.",6002.94,6007.84,{"idx":6203,"utterance_id":6204,"speaker_name":176,"text":6205,"start_s":6206,"end_s":6207,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1011,"212170","And once again, we made a mistake.",6008.38,6010.58,{"idx":6209,"utterance_id":6210,"speaker_name":176,"text":6211,"start_s":6212,"end_s":6213,"word_count":377,"indexable":180},1012,"212171","Because the television program, although we had all agreed on its format, the truth is it started airing and it wasn't delivering the result we wanted.",6011.04,6021.32,{"idx":6215,"utterance_id":6216,"speaker_name":176,"text":6217,"start_s":6218,"end_s":6219,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},1013,"212172","We waited for a public opinion poll to see if it would at least show an increase.",6021.8,6027.58,{"idx":6221,"utterance_id":6222,"speaker_name":176,"text":6223,"start_s":6224,"end_s":6225,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1014,"212173","When the poll came in, we had declined.",6027.9,6030.04,{"idx":6227,"utterance_id":6228,"speaker_name":176,"text":6229,"start_s":6230,"end_s":6231,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1015,"212174","Then when we went to change the form and content of the program, there were only 17 days left.",6030.66,6035.74,{"idx":6233,"utterance_id":6234,"speaker_name":176,"text":6235,"start_s":6236,"end_s":6237,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1016,"212175","Don't you attribute some of PT's poor performance?",6036.36,6039.94,{"idx":6239,"utterance_id":6240,"speaker_name":176,"text":6241,"start_s":6242,"end_s":6243,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},1017,"212176","To the way the media treated the assaults in Salvador and Leme?",6040.64,6046.08,{"idx":6245,"utterance_id":6246,"speaker_name":176,"text":6247,"start_s":6248,"end_s":6249,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1018,"212177","Do you think there's a connection between the two?",6046.1,6048.92,{"idx":6251,"utterance_id":6252,"speaker_name":176,"text":6253,"start_s":6254,"end_s":6255,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},1019,"212178","There's a connection.",6048.98,6050.76,{"idx":6257,"utterance_id":6258,"speaker_name":176,"text":6259,"start_s":6260,"end_s":6261,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},1020,"212179","At a certain point in the campaign, you criticized the message being put forward in the campaign, especially that of the candidate for governor.",6051.16,6059.3,{"idx":6263,"utterance_id":6264,"speaker_name":176,"text":6265,"start_s":6266,"end_s":6267,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1021,"212180","You said in the middle of the campaign that it wasn't reaching the workers.",6060.68,6064.06,{"idx":6269,"utterance_id":6270,"speaker_name":176,"text":6271,"start_s":6272,"end_s":6273,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1022,"212181","PT wasn't speaking to the workers.",6064.28,6065.8,{"idx":6275,"utterance_id":6276,"speaker_name":176,"text":6277,"start_s":6278,"end_s":6279,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},1023,"212182","You advocated... When you raised the question of classes, things like that...",6065.82,6071.28,{"idx":6281,"utterance_id":6282,"speaker_name":176,"text":6283,"start_s":6284,"end_s":6285,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1024,"212183","Actually, I didn't criticize Suplicy's discourse.",6071.58,6073.86,{"idx":6287,"utterance_id":6288,"speaker_name":176,"text":6289,"start_s":6290,"end_s":6291,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1025,"212184","What I criticized was the following: I imagined...",6073.88,6076.28,{"idx":6293,"utterance_id":6294,"speaker_name":176,"text":6295,"start_s":6296,"end_s":6297,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},1026,"212185","You criticized the way the campaign was being conducted, the PT's message in São Paulo.",6076.32,6080.9,{"idx":6299,"utterance_id":6300,"speaker_name":176,"text":6301,"start_s":6302,"end_s":6303,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},1027,"212186","If you analyze, for example, PT's message in Rio, which is another matter, it was an ecological celebration.",6082,6088.26,{"idx":6305,"utterance_id":6306,"speaker_name":176,"text":6307,"start_s":6308,"end_s":6309,"word_count":316,"indexable":180},1028,"212187","It has nothing to do, for example, with PT's 1982 campaign, which had the slogan 'Land, Work and Liberty,' things more... more direct to PT's base.",6088.68,6098.44,{"idx":6311,"utterance_id":6312,"speaker_name":176,"text":6313,"start_s":6314,"end_s":6315,"word_count":15,"indexable":180},1029,"212188","I want to know the following: from these experiences, for example Suplicy's in São Paulo, that discourse that at a certain point looked more like therapy than a political campaign.",6099.44,6108.58,{"idx":6317,"utterance_id":6318,"speaker_name":176,"text":6319,"start_s":6320,"end_s":6321,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1030,"212189","And that discourse in Rio, that ecological celebration in Rio.",6109.76,6114.34,{"idx":6323,"utterance_id":6324,"speaker_name":176,"text":6325,"start_s":6326,"end_s":6327,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},1031,"212190","What is PT's message today, you as national president of the party?",6114.62,6118,{"idx":6329,"utterance_id":6330,"speaker_name":176,"text":6331,"start_s":6332,"end_s":6333,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1032,"212191","What is the message that PT has today?",6118.46,6120.08,{"idx":6335,"utterance_id":6336,"speaker_name":176,"text":6337,"start_s":6338,"end_s":6339,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1033,"212192","Let me just add one small thing here.",6120.12,6121.72,{"idx":6341,"utterance_id":6342,"speaker_name":176,"text":6343,"start_s":6344,"end_s":6345,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},1034,"212193","PT in Rio — Rio is my turf, you shouldn't mess with me there.",6122.3,6125.38,{"idx":6347,"utterance_id":6348,"speaker_name":176,"text":6349,"start_s":6350,"end_s":6351,"word_count":194,"indexable":180},1035,"212194","PT in Rio, actually, is not the PV, which allied with PT out of convenience, but what became clear in Rio was that what worked and reached the young voter was the PV.",6126.22,6139.96,{"idx":6353,"utterance_id":6354,"speaker_name":176,"text":6355,"start_s":6356,"end_s":6357,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1036,"212195","PT was completely marginalized in the process, because the message was only the PV's.",6140.56,6145.14,{"idx":6359,"utterance_id":6360,"speaker_name":176,"text":6361,"start_s":6362,"end_s":6363,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},1037,"212196","Funny, you see.",6145.5,6146.52,{"idx":6365,"utterance_id":6366,"speaker_name":176,"text":6367,"start_s":6368,"end_s":6369,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},1038,"212197","And the federal deputies elected were the two from PT, Vladimir Palmeira and Bené.",6146.56,6151.42,{"idx":6371,"utterance_id":6372,"speaker_name":176,"text":6373,"start_s":6374,"end_s":6375,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},1039,"212198","Look, first we have to admit the following, folks: I wanted to start with São Paulo so as to get to Rio de Janeiro.",6152.16,6156.62,{"idx":6377,"utterance_id":6378,"speaker_name":176,"text":6379,"start_s":6380,"end_s":6381,"word_count":406,"indexable":180},1040,"212199","First, I didn't criticize Supresi's discourse because I never expected — and I hope that Eduardo... makes the kind of speech a comrade like Olívio Dutra makes, like Jacob does, because they are people from different backgrounds.",6157.9,6173.24,{"idx":6383,"utterance_id":6384,"speaker_name":176,"text":6385,"start_s":6386,"end_s":6387,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},1041,"212200","So I imagined Suplicy would have to have the posture he had on TV when running for mayor.",6173.28,6178.16,{"idx":6389,"utterance_id":6390,"speaker_name":176,"text":6391,"start_s":6392,"end_s":6393,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1042,"212201","But the candidate doesn't have to follow it.",6178.18,6178.88,{"idx":6395,"utterance_id":6396,"speaker_name":176,"text":6397,"start_s":6398,"end_s":6399,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1043,"212202","It presents a more produced posture.",6178.9,6180.18,{"idx":6401,"utterance_id":6402,"speaker_name":176,"text":6403,"start_s":6404,"end_s":6405,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},1044,"212203","What I imagined and what I argued to my comrades, and as, you know, the democrat I am, it wasn't approved, I kept quiet and didn't insist further.",6180.68,6192.58,{"idx":6407,"utterance_id":6408,"speaker_name":176,"text":6409,"start_s":6410,"end_s":6411,"word_count":49,"indexable":180},1045,"212204","It was that we would take advantage of the debate over the constituent assembly and try to convey the idea of a class contest through the election.",6193.18,6202.62,{"idx":6413,"utterance_id":6414,"speaker_name":176,"text":6415,"start_s":6416,"end_s":6417,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},1046,"212205","Well, why?",6203.32,6203.88,{"idx":1029,"utterance_id":6419,"speaker_name":176,"text":6420,"start_s":6421,"end_s":6422,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},"212206","Because on one side there was the business class, the UDR fundraising in order to... to win the elections.",6204.44,6212.36,{"idx":6424,"utterance_id":6425,"speaker_name":176,"text":6426,"start_s":6427,"end_s":6428,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1048,"212207","Fiesp publicly saying it was taking up a collection.",6212.42,6215.16,{"idx":6430,"utterance_id":6431,"speaker_name":176,"text":6432,"start_s":6433,"end_s":6434,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},1049,"212208","The bankers investing.",6215.62,6216.88,{"idx":6436,"utterance_id":6437,"speaker_name":176,"text":6438,"start_s":6439,"end_s":6440,"word_count":430,"indexable":180},1050,"212209","On one side, the representative class of economic power that was throwing in whatever it could to secure hegemony in the Constituent Assembly, to have the majority, to be able to establish the form of organization of society that best suited it.",6216.94,6229.4,{"idx":6442,"utterance_id":6443,"speaker_name":176,"text":6444,"start_s":6445,"end_s":6446,"word_count":436,"indexable":180},1051,"212210","I thought, and I argued to my comrades, that on the other side we should bring a message trying to rally the working class... to the confrontation that was at stake, because the trap ('arapuca') — the one set by the dominant class — was being turned against the working class.",6229.9,6242.2,{"idx":6448,"utterance_id":6449,"speaker_name":176,"text":6450,"start_s":6451,"end_s":6452,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},1052,"212211","For example, I would arrive at the gate of a factory, and I went to many factories.",6242.58,6247.5,{"idx":6454,"utterance_id":6455,"speaker_name":176,"text":6456,"start_s":6457,"end_s":6458,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1053,"212212","And I know there are people listening to me.",6248,6250.3,{"idx":6460,"utterance_id":6461,"speaker_name":176,"text":6462,"start_s":6463,"end_s":6464,"word_count":21,"indexable":180},1054,"212213","I would arrive at the factory gate and ask the worker, 'When you vote for a candidate, what do you expect from a candidate?'",6250.32,6257.38,{"idx":6466,"utterance_id":6467,"speaker_name":176,"text":6468,"start_s":6469,"end_s":6470,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1055,"212214","Normally the person would say, 'Well, I expect him to make a law to help me.'",6258.04,6262.54,{"idx":6472,"utterance_id":6473,"speaker_name":176,"text":6474,"start_s":6475,"end_s":6476,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1056,"212215","Do you remember the last candidate you voted for?",6263.58,6265.16,{"idx":6478,"utterance_id":6479,"speaker_name":176,"text":6480,"start_s":6481,"end_s":6482,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},1057,"212216","Ah, I don't remember.",6265.18,6266.6,{"idx":6484,"utterance_id":6485,"speaker_name":176,"text":6486,"start_s":6487,"end_s":6488,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1058,"212217","Do you expect the businessman to make the law you dream of?",6267.52,6271.42,{"idx":6490,"utterance_id":6491,"speaker_name":176,"text":6492,"start_s":6493,"end_s":6494,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},1059,"212218","No.",6272,6272.18,{"idx":6496,"utterance_id":6497,"speaker_name":176,"text":6498,"start_s":6499,"end_s":6500,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1060,"212219","Do you think the businessman will give you job stability?",6272.2,6274.56,{"idx":6502,"utterance_id":6503,"speaker_name":176,"text":6492,"start_s":6504,"end_s":6505,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},1061,"212220",6274.72,6274.84,{"idx":6507,"utterance_id":6508,"speaker_name":176,"text":6509,"start_s":6510,"end_s":6511,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1062,"212221","Do you think he will give you double vacation?",6274.86,6276.66,{"idx":6513,"utterance_id":6514,"speaker_name":176,"text":6492,"start_s":6515,"end_s":6516,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},1063,"212222",6276.7,6276.82,{"idx":6518,"utterance_id":6519,"speaker_name":176,"text":6520,"start_s":6521,"end_s":6522,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1064,"212223","Do you think he'll give you a 40-hour week?",6276.84,6278.36,{"idx":6524,"utterance_id":6525,"speaker_name":176,"text":6492,"start_s":6526,"end_s":6527,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},1065,"212224",6278.4,6278.52,{"idx":6529,"utterance_id":6530,"speaker_name":176,"text":6531,"start_s":6532,"end_s":6533,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},1066,"212225","Will he carry out agrarian reform?",6278.84,6279.8,{"idx":6535,"utterance_id":6536,"speaker_name":176,"text":6492,"start_s":6537,"end_s":6538,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},1067,"212226",6279.84,6279.94,{"idx":6540,"utterance_id":6541,"speaker_name":176,"text":6542,"start_s":6543,"end_s":6544,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},1068,"212227","I would say, if it's true that you think he won't give you these things, how is it that in the National Congress we have 479 deputies and only 3 are workers?",6280.36,6290.46,{"idx":6546,"utterance_id":6547,"speaker_name":176,"text":6548,"start_s":6549,"end_s":6550,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},1069,"212228","Plus about 50 or 60 deputies — teachers, lawyers, committed to the workers' struggle — and we have 420 or 430 direct and indirect representatives of economic power.",6290.88,6301.88,{"idx":6552,"utterance_id":6553,"speaker_name":176,"text":6554,"start_s":6555,"end_s":6556,"word_count":237,"indexable":180},1070,"212229","To try to make the working class — and that was the idea I wanted to convey on television — understand that, for lack of information... At election time, sometimes he votes for the one who hands out the last leaflet at the ballot box.",6302.48,6319.46,{"idx":6558,"utterance_id":6559,"speaker_name":176,"text":6560,"start_s":6561,"end_s":6562,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1071,"212230","Ricardo, just a second now.",6319.62,6320.7,{"idx":6564,"utterance_id":6565,"speaker_name":176,"text":6566,"start_s":6567,"end_s":6568,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1072,"212231","So that was it, that's what I had in mind.",6320.72,6322.84,{"idx":6570,"utterance_id":6571,"speaker_name":176,"text":6572,"start_s":6573,"end_s":6574,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},1073,"212232","I have here a mountain of phone calls from viewers asking all kinds of questions to you.",6323.52,6330.42,{"idx":6576,"utterance_id":6577,"speaker_name":176,"text":6578,"start_s":6579,"end_s":6580,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},1074,"212233","But one thing we notice is that your persona provokes an almost passionate split among viewers, and I suppose in the Brazilian population as well.",6330.44,6341.22,{"idx":6582,"utterance_id":6583,"speaker_name":176,"text":6584,"start_s":6585,"end_s":6586,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},1075,"212234","Some viewers call asking how much you earn, why you don't go to another country.",6342.54,6348.34,{"idx":6588,"utterance_id":6589,"speaker_name":176,"text":6590,"start_s":6591,"end_s":6592,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1076,"212235","And there are viewers who ask you questions that praise you.",6348.66,6352.1,{"idx":6594,"utterance_id":6595,"speaker_name":176,"text":6596,"start_s":6597,"end_s":6598,"word_count":389,"indexable":180},1077,"212236","I'm going to ask you a question from a viewer in Jardim Europa, even because the more sympathetic questions to you you've already addressed in our questions; you've already been answering those people.",6352.32,6364.12,{"idx":6600,"utterance_id":6601,"speaker_name":176,"text":6602,"start_s":6603,"end_s":6604,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1078,"212237","Now I'm going to ask you a question from a viewer in Jardim Europa.",6365.2,6368.08,{"idx":6606,"utterance_id":6607,"speaker_name":176,"text":6608,"start_s":6609,"end_s":6610,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},1079,"212238","PT's electoral area.",6368.38,6370.74,{"idx":6612,"utterance_id":6613,"speaker_name":176,"text":6614,"start_s":6615,"end_s":6616,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1080,"212239","According to Boris, PT's electoral area.",6370.76,6372.74,{"idx":6618,"utterance_id":6619,"speaker_name":176,"text":6620,"start_s":6621,"end_s":6622,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1081,"212240","Her name is Rafaela Rodrigues; she lives in Jardim Europa, as I said.",6375.16,6378.38,{"idx":6624,"utterance_id":6625,"speaker_name":176,"text":6626,"start_s":6627,"end_s":6628,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1082,"212241","I'm going to read verbatim what she said.",6378.42,6380.02,{"idx":6630,"utterance_id":6631,"speaker_name":176,"text":6632,"start_s":6633,"end_s":6634,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1083,"212242","There are people of political conscience in Jardim Europa.",6380.04,6382.58,{"idx":6636,"utterance_id":6637,"speaker_name":176,"text":6638,"start_s":6639,"end_s":6640,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},1084,"212243","Are there?",6382.74,6382.88,{"idx":6642,"utterance_id":6643,"speaker_name":176,"text":6644,"start_s":6645,"end_s":6646,"word_count":182,"indexable":180},1085,"212244","There are.",6383.18,6384,{"idx":6648,"utterance_id":6649,"speaker_name":176,"text":6650,"start_s":6651,"end_s":6652,"word_count":196,"indexable":180},1086,"212245","So, her words.",6384.6,6387.96,{"idx":6654,"utterance_id":6655,"speaker_name":176,"text":6656,"start_s":6657,"end_s":6658,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1087,"212246","You call yourself the symbol of the Brazilian worker, heavily exploited and who works excessively.",6388.14,6392.88,{"idx":6660,"utterance_id":6661,"speaker_name":176,"text":6662,"start_s":6663,"end_s":6664,"word_count":237,"indexable":180},1088,"212247","How is it then that you frequent the Galeri, a symbol of people who earn a lot and work little, drink French champagne, eat caviar, salmon and even have a dinner and leave the club after three in the morning, as this person, Rafaela Rodrigues, saw you five years ago?",6393.24,6411.6,{"idx":6666,"utterance_id":6667,"speaker_name":176,"text":6668,"start_s":6669,"end_s":6670,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1089,"212248","Look, first I think this comrade is mistaken.",6412.9,6415.54,{"idx":6672,"utterance_id":6673,"speaker_name":176,"text":6674,"start_s":6675,"end_s":6676,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},1090,"212249","I know she possibly doesn't like me calling her 'comrade.'",6415.58,6417.54,{"idx":6678,"utterance_id":6679,"speaker_name":176,"text":6680,"start_s":6681,"end_s":6682,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1091,"212250","Could you call her 'comrade'?",6417.56,6418.98,{"idx":6684,"utterance_id":6685,"speaker_name":176,"text":6686,"start_s":6687,"end_s":6688,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1092,"212251","But I call everyone 'comrade.'",6419,6420.2,{"idx":6690,"utterance_id":6691,"speaker_name":176,"text":6692,"start_s":6693,"end_s":6694,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1093,"212252","People have to get used to this fraternal form of address that we tend to use.",6420.98,6425.18,{"idx":6696,"utterance_id":6697,"speaker_name":176,"text":6698,"start_s":6699,"end_s":6700,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},1094,"212253","First, I think this comrade has never heard me say that I want to be a representative of the working class.",6426.32,6432.36,{"idx":6702,"utterance_id":6703,"speaker_name":176,"text":6704,"start_s":6705,"end_s":6706,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1095,"212254","And I've been here for an hour now and at no point did I claim that.",6432.46,6436.06,{"idx":6708,"utterance_id":6709,"speaker_name":176,"text":6710,"start_s":6711,"end_s":6712,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},1096,"212255","I think that if I managed to win a political space it was because the working class guaranteed that I would win it.",6436.88,6444.48,{"idx":6714,"utterance_id":6715,"speaker_name":176,"text":6716,"start_s":6717,"end_s":6718,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1097,"212256","I didn't conquer it individually, because individually I'm nothing.",6444.74,6447.96,{"idx":6720,"utterance_id":6721,"speaker_name":176,"text":6722,"start_s":6723,"end_s":6724,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},1098,"212257","Second, I think this comrade... She must be somewhat worried because Lula went to the Galeri.",6448.7,6455.42,{"idx":6726,"utterance_id":6727,"speaker_name":176,"text":6728,"start_s":6729,"end_s":6730,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},1099,"212258","She must be worried.",6455.8,6456.82,{"idx":6732,"utterance_id":6733,"speaker_name":176,"text":6734,"start_s":6735,"end_s":6736,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1100,"212259","The day the working class can go to the Galeri.",6456.92,6458.98,{"idx":6738,"utterance_id":6739,"speaker_name":176,"text":6740,"start_s":6741,"end_s":6742,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1101,"212260","That's when she'll see how good it is.",6459,6461.3,{"idx":6744,"utterance_id":6745,"speaker_name":176,"text":6746,"start_s":6747,"end_s":6748,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1102,"212261","And I think the working class really should go.",6461.96,6463.76,{"idx":6750,"utterance_id":6751,"speaker_name":176,"text":6752,"start_s":6753,"end_s":6754,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},1103,"212262","The working class ought to go, because we need to put an end to this business of having a place for posh people.",6465.06,6470.52,{"idx":6756,"utterance_id":6757,"speaker_name":176,"text":6758,"start_s":6759,"end_s":6760,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1104,"212263","And a counter for the poor.",6471.06,6472.68,{"idx":6762,"utterance_id":6763,"speaker_name":176,"text":6764,"start_s":6765,"end_s":6766,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1105,"212264","I went to the Gallery, I went to the Gallery.",6473.46,6475.7,{"idx":6768,"utterance_id":6769,"speaker_name":176,"text":6770,"start_s":6771,"end_s":6772,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1106,"212265","And it's important, it's important for the comrade to know.",6475.72,6477.74,{"idx":6774,"utterance_id":6775,"speaker_name":176,"text":6776,"start_s":6777,"end_s":6778,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},1107,"212266","She knows, she knows.",6477.76,6479.42,{"idx":6780,"utterance_id":6781,"speaker_name":176,"text":6782,"start_s":6783,"end_s":6784,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1108,"212267","And she made that provocation.",6479.92,6481.22,{"idx":6786,"utterance_id":6787,"speaker_name":176,"text":6788,"start_s":6789,"end_s":6790,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1109,"212268","She asked that question just to provoke.",6481.7,6483.44,{"idx":6792,"utterance_id":6793,"speaker_name":176,"text":6794,"start_s":6795,"end_s":6796,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1110,"212269","She knows why I went to the Gallery.",6483.94,6485.34,{"idx":6798,"utterance_id":6799,"speaker_name":176,"text":6800,"start_s":6801,"end_s":6802,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1111,"212270","And I want to tell you that I went and I liked it.",6485.36,6486.84,{"idx":6804,"utterance_id":6805,"speaker_name":176,"text":6806,"start_s":6807,"end_s":6808,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1112,"212271","There will be other times when Manchete magazine won't invite me.",6487.48,6492.02,{"idx":6810,"utterance_id":6811,"speaker_name":176,"text":6812,"start_s":6813,"end_s":6814,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1113,"212272","But if TV Cultura invites me, I'll go.",6492.62,6494.74,{"idx":6816,"utterance_id":6817,"speaker_name":176,"text":6818,"start_s":6819,"end_s":6820,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1114,"212273","If Placar invites me, any magazine here, I'll go.",6495.26,6497.22,{"idx":6822,"utterance_id":6823,"speaker_name":176,"text":6824,"start_s":6825,"end_s":6826,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1115,"212274","Folha de São Paulo, I'll go.",6497.3,6498.12,{"idx":6828,"utterance_id":6829,"speaker_name":176,"text":6830,"start_s":6831,"end_s":6832,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},1116,"212275","Because I liked it.",6498.6,6499.24,{"idx":6834,"utterance_id":6835,"speaker_name":176,"text":6836,"start_s":6837,"end_s":6838,"word_count":203,"indexable":180},1117,"212276","I liked it, I thought it was very good.",6500.02,6500.82,{"idx":6840,"utterance_id":6841,"speaker_name":176,"text":6842,"start_s":6843,"end_s":6844,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},1118,"212277","Now, I went to the Gallery; I'm just going to explain it to the comrade so she won't tell her neighbors otherwise.",6501.32,6507.02,{"idx":6846,"utterance_id":6847,"speaker_name":176,"text":6848,"start_s":6849,"end_s":6850,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},1119,"212278","I went to the Gallery because I did a report for Manchete magazine and the colleague at Manchete doubted I would go to the Gallery, said I didn't have the means to go, and I said, I'll go.",6507.48,6519.06,{"idx":6852,"utterance_id":6853,"speaker_name":176,"text":6854,"start_s":6855,"end_s":6856,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},1120,"212279","I went, ate well, drank well and went home very satisfied.",6519.46,6523.76,{"idx":6858,"utterance_id":6859,"speaker_name":176,"text":6860,"start_s":6861,"end_s":6862,"word_count":243,"indexable":180},1121,"212280","I hope that one day, you know, thousands of workers can go to the Gallery or can, near their home, have the cocktail I had at the Gallery.",6523.84,6531.92,{"idx":6864,"utterance_id":6865,"speaker_name":176,"text":6866,"start_s":6867,"end_s":6868,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1122,"212281","Now, you know, it's not just that.",6532.34,6536.08,{"idx":6870,"utterance_id":6871,"speaker_name":176,"text":6872,"start_s":6873,"end_s":6874,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},1123,"212282","The other day I went to lunch with Minucarta, had dinner with Minucarta, V4 and Jacobita.",6536.14,6541.24,{"idx":6876,"utterance_id":6877,"speaker_name":176,"text":6878,"start_s":6879,"end_s":6880,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},1124,"212283","That was about two years ago.",6541.34,6543.26,{"idx":6882,"utterance_id":6883,"speaker_name":176,"text":6884,"start_s":6885,"end_s":6886,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1125,"212284","We went to a restaurant and I went.",6543.28,6544.56,{"idx":6888,"utterance_id":6889,"speaker_name":176,"text":6890,"start_s":6891,"end_s":6892,"word_count":389,"indexable":180},1126,"212285","to the washroom, and when I passed, Jacob came behind; the women didn't realize I was with Jacob, she said, \"Yeah, he defends the worker, but where is he eating here?\"",6545.54,6555.5,{"idx":6894,"utterance_id":6895,"speaker_name":176,"text":6896,"start_s":6897,"end_s":6898,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1127,"212286","Lucky for me Jacob came behind and said, \"it was over there at...\"",6556.18,6559.22,{"idx":6900,"utterance_id":6901,"speaker_name":176,"text":6902,"start_s":6903,"end_s":6904,"word_count":189,"indexable":180},1128,"212287","At Máximo?",6560.62,6561.2,{"idx":6906,"utterance_id":6907,"speaker_name":176,"text":6908,"start_s":6909,"end_s":6910,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},1129,"212288","No, here at... here at... Padoque?",6561.42,6564.56,{"idx":6912,"utterance_id":6913,"speaker_name":176,"text":6914,"start_s":6910,"end_s":6915,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},1130,"212289","13 de Maio, over in Bixiga.",6568.46,{"idx":6917,"utterance_id":6918,"speaker_name":176,"text":6919,"start_s":6920,"end_s":6921,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1131,"212290","And then Jacob came behind and said, \"Why?\"",6568.88,6570.8,{"idx":6923,"utterance_id":6924,"speaker_name":176,"text":6925,"start_s":6926,"end_s":6927,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1132,"212291","\"Only the lady can eat here, he can't?\"",6570.94,6572.8,{"idx":6929,"utterance_id":6930,"speaker_name":176,"text":6931,"start_s":6932,"end_s":6933,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1133,"212292","Then they apologized, that whole thing.",6573.78,6575.84,{"idx":6935,"utterance_id":6936,"speaker_name":176,"text":6937,"start_s":6938,"end_s":6939,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},1134,"212293","But I feel, I feel there's a very big prejudice.",6576.2,6580.38,{"idx":6941,"utterance_id":6942,"speaker_name":176,"text":6943,"start_s":6944,"end_s":6945,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},1135,"212294","First, people don't admit the fact that I got to where I got.",6580.8,6584.54,{"idx":6947,"utterance_id":6948,"speaker_name":176,"text":6949,"start_s":6950,"end_s":6951,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},1136,"212295","I mean, I haven't achieved nothing, but I've gotten much further than the ruling class expected I would.",6584.56,6590.16,{"idx":6953,"utterance_id":6954,"speaker_name":176,"text":6955,"start_s":6956,"end_s":6957,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1137,"212296","Second, they don't accept the fact that I haven't been corrupted.",6590.84,6593.76,{"idx":6959,"utterance_id":6960,"speaker_name":176,"text":6961,"start_s":6962,"end_s":6963,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1138,"212297","They don't accept the fact that I didn't take what they offered.",6594.68,6597.02,{"idx":6965,"utterance_id":6966,"speaker_name":176,"text":6967,"start_s":6968,"end_s":6969,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},1139,"212298","The nice things they've offered to some, like Maluf offered to Zé de Fátima, or like Maluf offered to Girafila in Diadema, and they accepted.",6597.8,6606.14,{"idx":6971,"utterance_id":6972,"speaker_name":176,"text":6973,"start_s":6974,"end_s":6975,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},1140,"212299","And as they've already offered to others historically, because there's no shortage of traitors of the working class.",6606.52,6611.08,{"idx":6977,"utterance_id":6978,"speaker_name":176,"text":6979,"start_s":6980,"end_s":6981,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1141,"212300","So I think these people have a concern.",6611.6,6615.3,{"idx":6983,"utterance_id":6984,"speaker_name":176,"text":6985,"start_s":6986,"end_s":6987,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1142,"212301","They don't offer bribes, Boris.",6616.28,6618.1,{"idx":6989,"utterance_id":6990,"speaker_name":176,"text":6991,"start_s":6992,"end_s":6993,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},1143,"212302","And so I'm suspicious when people say someone tried to corrupt them.",6618.52,6622.26,{"idx":6995,"utterance_id":6996,"speaker_name":176,"text":6997,"start_s":6998,"end_s":6999,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1144,"212303","I think they only try to corrupt those who show an interest in corruption.",6622.3,6627.06,{"idx":7001,"utterance_id":7002,"speaker_name":176,"text":7003,"start_s":7004,"end_s":7005,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},1145,"212304","Because I was a union leader, I sat at the bargaining table, had lunch with the boss, dined with the boss.",6627.68,6633.7,{"idx":7007,"utterance_id":7008,"speaker_name":176,"text":7009,"start_s":7010,"end_s":7011,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1146,"212305","Several times comrade Barella was there alongside me.",6634.48,6636.48,{"idx":7013,"utterance_id":7014,"speaker_name":176,"text":7015,"start_s":7016,"end_s":7017,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1147,"212306","I always acted seriously and no one ever failed me.",6637.28,6640.68,{"idx":7019,"utterance_id":7020,"speaker_name":176,"text":7021,"start_s":7022,"end_s":7023,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},1148,"212307","And I think that's a lack of respect for the human being.",6641.02,6642.92,{"idx":7025,"utterance_id":7026,"speaker_name":176,"text":7027,"start_s":7028,"end_s":7029,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1149,"212308","And nobody ever had the courage to be disrespectful to me.",6643.4,6646.56,{"idx":7031,"utterance_id":7032,"speaker_name":176,"text":7033,"start_s":7034,"end_s":7035,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1150,"212309","Now I'm going to tell just one story.",6646.82,6650.04,{"idx":7037,"utterance_id":7038,"speaker_name":176,"text":7039,"start_s":7040,"end_s":7041,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},1151,"212310","I'm going to tell just one story and I'll ask you not to give the name so the person, who is an employee, won't be harmed.",6650.58,6657.5,{"idx":7043,"utterance_id":7044,"speaker_name":176,"text":7045,"start_s":7046,"end_s":7047,"word_count":187,"indexable":180},1152,"212311","Once I arrived from Rio Grande do Sul in 1980 and there was a box at my house.",6657.88,6663.96,{"idx":7049,"utterance_id":7050,"speaker_name":176,"text":7051,"start_s":7052,"end_s":7053,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},1153,"212312","My wife said it was a comrade who had come to bring it.",6664.5,6667.4,{"idx":7055,"utterance_id":7056,"speaker_name":176,"text":7057,"start_s":7058,"end_s":7059,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1154,"212313","I went to see what was in that box.",6668.42,6669.42,{"idx":7061,"utterance_id":7062,"speaker_name":176,"text":7063,"start_s":7064,"end_s":7065,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},1155,"212314","There was a stereo system and there was a card from someone at Volkswagen.",6669.5,6673.64,{"idx":7067,"utterance_id":7068,"speaker_name":176,"text":7069,"start_s":7070,"end_s":7071,"word_count":324,"indexable":180},1156,"212315","I called the person, wanted to know what it was, I said, this is a gift from friends, it's not a gift from Volkswagen.",6674.96,6679.9,{"idx":7073,"utterance_id":7074,"speaker_name":176,"text":7075,"start_s":7076,"end_s":7077,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1157,"212316","We were on the verge of the 1980 strike.",6680.44,6682.22,{"idx":7079,"utterance_id":7080,"speaker_name":176,"text":7081,"start_s":7082,"end_s":7083,"word_count":505,"indexable":180},1158,"212317","I called the comrade — whom I apologize for not naming since he's an employee — and I said, look, comrade, if you don't come pick up that stereo now, at four in the afternoon I'll take it to Volkswagen's door and tell the guys you tried to corrupt me.",6682.36,6698.46,{"idx":7085,"utterance_id":7086,"speaker_name":176,"text":7087,"start_s":7088,"end_s":7089,"word_count":208,"indexable":180},1159,"212318","And we'll smash that stereo.",6699.34,6702.12,{"idx":7091,"utterance_id":7092,"speaker_name":176,"text":7093,"start_s":7094,"end_s":7095,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1160,"212319","The comrade kindly went to my house and took the stereo away.",6702.14,6705.68,{"idx":7097,"utterance_id":7098,"speaker_name":176,"text":7099,"start_s":7100,"end_s":7101,"word_count":9,"indexable":180},1161,"212320","I even told him, if you want to give it, why not give it to the strike fund to raffle instead of giving it to me?",6705.82,6711.32,{"idx":7103,"utterance_id":7104,"speaker_name":176,"text":7105,"start_s":7106,"end_s":7107,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1162,"212321","Then he apologized and took it away; I don't know who ended up with it.",6712.32,6714.48,{"idx":7109,"utterance_id":7110,"speaker_name":176,"text":7111,"start_s":7112,"end_s":7113,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1163,"212322","It was the only time in six years of my time in that position.",6715.32,6719,{"idx":7115,"utterance_id":7116,"speaker_name":176,"text":7117,"start_s":7118,"end_s":7119,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1164,"212323","I didn't catch what you said.",6719.42,6720.6,{"idx":7121,"utterance_id":7122,"speaker_name":176,"text":7123,"start_s":7124,"end_s":7125,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1165,"212324","There are a lot of people who believe it.",6722.44,6723.36,{"idx":7127,"utterance_id":7128,"speaker_name":176,"text":7129,"start_s":7130,"end_s":7131,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},1166,"212325","There are many people who believe you have a house in Morumbi.",6723.38,6725.32,{"idx":7133,"utterance_id":7134,"speaker_name":176,"text":7135,"start_s":7136,"end_s":7137,"word_count":252,"indexable":180},1167,"212326","By the way, there are several questions here saying you have a house in Morumbi.",6725.44,6728.9,{"idx":7139,"utterance_id":7140,"speaker_name":176,"text":7141,"start_s":7142,"end_s":7143,"word_count":281,"indexable":180},1168,"212327","You know, I'm even sorry because... Unfortunately, I filed a lawsuit against a fellow.",6728.92,6734.92,{"idx":7145,"utterance_id":7146,"speaker_name":176,"text":7147,"start_s":7148,"end_s":7149,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},1169,"212328","That rumor that I lived in Morumbi arose in the 1982 elections.",6735.52,6738.06,{"idx":7151,"utterance_id":7152,"speaker_name":176,"text":7153,"start_s":7154,"end_s":7155,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},1170,"212329","And it didn't come from the right; it came from a sector of the PMDB's left, which are not serious people.",6738.1,6745.84,{"idx":7157,"utterance_id":7158,"speaker_name":176,"text":7159,"start_s":7160,"end_s":7161,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},1171,"212330","They are the least serious people who claimed I lived in Morumbi.",6746.14,6748.96,{"idx":7163,"utterance_id":7164,"speaker_name":176,"text":7165,"start_s":7166,"end_s":7167,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},1172,"212331","And the PDS people spread that I had a mansion in Guarujá.",6748.98,6751.5,{"idx":7169,"utterance_id":7170,"speaker_name":176,"text":7171,"start_s":7172,"end_s":7173,"word_count":400,"indexable":180},1173,"212332","I could never... Look, the suspicion we had at the time was that the split among us eight was very serious and that it was our dissident folks from São Bernardo who spread that.",6752.46,6765.24,{"idx":7175,"utterance_id":7176,"speaker_name":176,"text":7177,"start_s":7178,"end_s":7179,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},1174,"212333","Well, from then on you stay at the level of rumor, I mean, nobody confirms it.",6766.06,6769.7,{"idx":7181,"utterance_id":7182,"speaker_name":176,"text":7183,"start_s":7184,"end_s":7185,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1175,"212334","Only last year did I manage to catch a journalist named Galileu.",6769.92,6775.5,{"idx":7187,"utterance_id":7188,"speaker_name":176,"text":7189,"start_s":7190,"end_s":7191,"word_count":389,"indexable":180},1176,"212335","In fact, a gentleman already over 60 years old, who wrote an article in the Poços de Caldas paper saying I lived in Morumbi and that I earned 40 thousand cruzados per month.",6775.96,6784.92,{"idx":7193,"utterance_id":7194,"speaker_name":176,"text":7195,"start_s":7196,"end_s":7197,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1177,"212336","That fellow was the only one who provided proof.",6784.96,6787.4,{"idx":7199,"utterance_id":7200,"speaker_name":176,"text":7201,"start_s":7202,"end_s":7203,"word_count":60,"indexable":180},1178,"212337","Because of that article signed by him, called Galileu, I don't know the details, I know he's linked to the journalists' union.",6787.98,6796.08,{"idx":7205,"utterance_id":7206,"speaker_name":176,"text":7207,"start_s":7208,"end_s":7209,"word_count":383,"indexable":180},1179,"212338","I even spoke with the comrades at the union; they thought I shouldn't sue because the guy wasn't to be taken very seriously, but I thought it was the chance I had",6796.7,6804.68,{"idx":7211,"utterance_id":7212,"speaker_name":176,"text":7213,"start_s":7214,"end_s":7215,"word_count":341,"indexable":180},1180,"212339","to unmask a fellow who doesn't take into account, you know, that we have a family and that our family can't be involved in lies.",6805.32,6813.34,{"idx":7217,"utterance_id":7218,"speaker_name":176,"text":7219,"start_s":7220,"end_s":7221,"word_count":436,"indexable":180},1181,"212340","So I sued; this fellow already had the first hearing, he had no witnesses on his side, he brought a retired army colonel, he arrived, and the judge asked the colonel if he knew I lived in Morumbi, if I earned 40 million.",6814.16,6825.34,{"idx":7223,"utterance_id":7224,"speaker_name":176,"text":7225,"start_s":7226,"end_s":7227,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},1182,"212341","He said, look, I don't know Mr. Luiz Inácio, I only came here because I know Mr. Galileu there.",6825.36,6829.46,{"idx":7229,"utterance_id":7230,"speaker_name":176,"text":7231,"start_s":7232,"end_s":7233,"word_count":292,"indexable":180},1183,"212342","Well, in conclusion, this man will be condemned, this man will be condemned and I don't want his condemnation.",6830.12,6836.1,{"idx":7235,"utterance_id":7236,"speaker_name":176,"text":7237,"start_s":7238,"end_s":7239,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},1184,"212343","I don't want that, you know; what I want is for it to be made public that a fellow... who had no respect for the dignity of others, pays that price.",6836.12,6847.6,{"idx":7241,"utterance_id":7242,"speaker_name":176,"text":7243,"start_s":7244,"end_s":7245,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},1185,"212344","Lula, now, Ricardo, unfortunately, unfortunately, it's 11:33.",6848.14,6854.06,{"idx":7247,"utterance_id":7248,"speaker_name":176,"text":7249,"start_s":7250,"end_s":7251,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},1186,"212345","My watch isn't digital, it's hard to know if that's exactly it.",6854.12,6856.58,{"idx":7253,"utterance_id":7254,"speaker_name":176,"text":7255,"start_s":7256,"end_s":7257,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1187,"212346","Our time is running out.",6858.28,6860.22,{"idx":7259,"utterance_id":7260,"speaker_name":176,"text":7261,"start_s":7262,"end_s":7263,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},1188,"212347","I'll allow one last question from Walter, who had little opportunity on this program.",6860.4,6865.14,{"idx":7265,"utterance_id":7266,"speaker_name":176,"text":7267,"start_s":7268,"end_s":7269,"word_count":221,"indexable":180},1189,"212348","Please, Walter, you, please answer.",6865.34,6867.12,{"idx":7271,"utterance_id":7272,"speaker_name":176,"text":7273,"start_s":7274,"end_s":7275,"word_count":250,"indexable":180},1190,"212349","Trying to bring together the two big issues we've discussed here — Cruzado, the Brazilian crisis and the constituent assembly.",6868.96,6875.54,{"idx":7277,"utterance_id":7278,"speaker_name":176,"text":7279,"start_s":7280,"end_s":7281,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1191,"212350","All of this will continue throughout 1987.",6876.76,6880.42,{"idx":7283,"utterance_id":7284,"speaker_name":176,"text":7285,"start_s":7286,"end_s":7287,"word_count":377,"indexable":180},1192,"212351","We will be a country in crisis, which has not resolved its big problems, pressed by external creditors, with an economic policy that is not yet complete and that has many mistakes and errors.",6882.32,6895.52,{"idx":7289,"utterance_id":7290,"speaker_name":176,"text":7291,"start_s":7292,"end_s":7293,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1193,"212352","And at the same time we'll have to carry out a constituent assembly.",6896.52,6899.56,{"idx":7295,"utterance_id":7296,"speaker_name":176,"text":7297,"start_s":7298,"end_s":7299,"word_count":245,"indexable":180},1194,"212353","How do you see all this happening next year?",6900.64,6905.24,{"idx":7301,"utterance_id":7302,"speaker_name":176,"text":7303,"start_s":7304,"end_s":7305,"word_count":232,"indexable":180},1195,"212354","How will Brazil manage to solve two big problems?",6905.64,6912.36,{"idx":7307,"utterance_id":7308,"speaker_name":176,"text":7309,"start_s":7310,"end_s":7311,"word_count":43,"indexable":180},1196,"212355","Prepare itself for the future, which would be the constituent assembly, shape a new face for the country and resolve the crisis, proposing new economic and social solutions.",6912.74,6927.26,{"idx":7313,"utterance_id":7314,"speaker_name":176,"text":7315,"start_s":7316,"end_s":7317,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1197,"212356","for problems that are urgent.",6928.14,6929.6,{"idx":7319,"utterance_id":7320,"speaker_name":176,"text":7321,"start_s":7322,"end_s":7323,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},1198,"212357","Problems of food shortages, problems of speculation, problems of banking reform, agrarian reform and, finally, the issue of the debt.",6929.86,6940.8,{"idx":7325,"utterance_id":7326,"speaker_name":176,"text":7327,"start_s":7328,"end_s":7329,"word_count":275,"indexable":180},1199,"212358","Look, Mariano, I think the two things will even occur in a somewhat parallel way.",6940.94,6945.34,{"idx":7331,"utterance_id":7332,"speaker_name":176,"text":7333,"start_s":7334,"end_s":7335,"word_count":171,"indexable":180},1200,"212359","One thing is the debate over the constituent assembly, another is the social movement that will be, you know, mobilized in the streets, increasingly wanting more and increasingly demanding what is rightfully theirs.",6945.44,6955.86,{"idx":7337,"utterance_id":7338,"speaker_name":176,"text":7339,"start_s":7340,"end_s":7341,"word_count":297,"indexable":180},1201,"212360","I think that if we have a serious government, as it tries to appear on television, that government should bring together all sectors of society to try to find a solution to Brazil's problems.",6956.5,6969.08,{"idx":7343,"utterance_id":7344,"speaker_name":176,"text":7345,"start_s":7346,"end_s":7347,"word_count":306,"indexable":180},1202,"212361","Which, in my opinion, Barelli, will only be resolved when we first decide what to do about the external debt.",6969.1,6975.46,{"idx":7349,"utterance_id":7350,"speaker_name":176,"text":7351,"start_s":7352,"end_s":7353,"word_count":264,"indexable":180},1203,"212362","I no longer want to first solve one and then try to solve the others.",6976.04,6979.02,{"idx":7355,"utterance_id":7356,"speaker_name":176,"text":7357,"start_s":7358,"end_s":7359,"word_count":4,"indexable":180},1204,"212363","Thank you for being here on Roda Viva this evening.",6987.26,6990.16,{"idx":7361,"utterance_id":7362,"speaker_name":176,"text":7363,"start_s":7364,"end_s":7365,"word_count":258,"indexable":180},1205,"212364","Thank you very much as well to all the friends and colleagues who took part in the interview.",6990.46,6994.3,{"idx":7367,"utterance_id":7368,"speaker_name":176,"text":7369,"start_s":7370,"end_s":7371,"word_count":299,"indexable":180},1206,"212365","Roda Viva returns next Monday at 9:20 p.m., interviewing the governor-elect of São Paulo, Orestes Quercia.",6994.48,7001.22,{"idx":7373,"utterance_id":7374,"speaker_name":176,"text":7375,"start_s":7376,"end_s":7377,"word_count":201,"indexable":180},1207,"212366","Next Monday, 9:20 p.m.",7001.3,7003.32,{"idx":7379,"utterance_id":7380,"speaker_name":176,"text":7381,"start_s":7382,"end_s":7383,"word_count":210,"indexable":180},1208,"212367","Good night, and see you then.",7003.4,7060.7,"en",{"job_id":7386,"title":7387,"source_url":7388,"platform":7389,"content_type":7390,"published_at":7391,"duration_sec":7392,"n_classified":7393,"speakers":7394},"5c058617-9a50-44b8-aac8-ae3997d22836","Roda Viva | Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva | 1986","https:\u002F\u002Fwww.youtube.com\u002Fwatch?v=uS4wo-kvcfs","youtube","video","2021-04-08T23:00:14Z",7060.687,1209,[],"https:\u002F\u002Fi.ytimg.com\u002Fvi\u002FuS4wo-kvcfs\u002Fhqdefault.jpg"]